Goat

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  1. Something happening at Salisbury hospital

    I think the reality is that it just wasn't seen as that big an issue at the time, and the reason is this: Even if MW had privately thought 60,000+ it was still a drop in the Ocean compared to the 1,000,000+ that'd arrived from the 3rd world over the previous 4 years. I mean we're talking white European catholics here, mostly with skills and jobs that can intergrate well, the only reason they became a "problem" is because you weren't allowed to say bad things about coloured people but you can be as racist as you like about the ones with white skin.
  2. Come back knockoutjohhny!

    My view, if I'm wearing a watch like that, I'm on time, you're all late.
  3. Something happening at Salisbury hospital

    Let me know if you ever visit it.
  4. Something happening at Salisbury hospital

    We have no way of knowing, he may have believed it to be true, he may even be right. Looks to me like the usual holier than thou Lib Dems smearing everyone else when they're caught out (again). Incidentally the lie he was covering up for left Alistair Carmichael out of pocket to the tune of £150,000 and if he had still been in government would've required his resignation, so I doubt there's many of them that can afford to lie that often.
  5. Something happening at Salisbury hospital

    But then even a body as hawkish as MigrationWatch commenting after they knew that we were the only state not to impose restrictions only estimated "closer to 40.000", which is still what most reasonable people would call "tens of thousands", so the idea that the government "knew" that the true figure would be more like 100,000 is dubious. I mean what were these "various other sources" that you talk about? Have MI6 perfected time travel or were they listening into every telephone conversation across Eastern Europe. Well you say that HMG lies to us regularly, but the example you gave was only a lie "IMO" and to me looks more like serious misjudgement rather than outright deception. Also please bear in mind that there were one or two other things going on in 2003 that might've been of higher priority, such as: Scottish and Welsh assembly elections; Den Watts returns to Eastenders; final episode of Brookside after 21 years; The Iraq War. Why don't you have another go and find me an outright, bare faced lie, with supporting sources.
  6. Something happening at Salisbury hospital

    Paragraph 3: When you factor in that we are the only major EU country to open our labour market from the day of accession............
  7. Something happening at Salisbury hospital

    Go back to the actual report, on the cover is the following text: "The views expressed in this report are those of the authors, not necessarily those of the Home Office (nor do they reflect Government policy)" Next look at the text towards the end of page 8: "However, even in the worst case scenario, migration to the UK as a result of Eastern enlargement of the EU is not likely to be overly large" Now is 40,000 not overly large? Lets look at the following chart: 40,000 was certainly well above expectation, but compared to the 250,000 (if not more) that were arriving from Africa and "Asia" every year it's still fairly insignificant. In fact the big lie is that the Polish plumbers were the problem in the first place when we were in fact cramming in far more representatives from the Religion of Peace. All of which is beside the point, because it's not a lie to be wrong, it only becomes a lie when you know it's wrong and say it anyway. So was "Immigration from EE will be in the tens of thousands" a lie or not?
  8. Something happening at Salisbury hospital

    A link to demonstrate that "Everyone who had half a brain when we opened up our borders including our non contribution benefits windfall knew there would be a mass influx from EE", because AFAICS back in 2003 even a hawkish body such as MW was predicting maybe 40,000 p/a. One other point I should mention is that tax credits in their modern form arrived in April 2003 and it took a fair few years before people worked out the implications of them - how large a driver of the unexpected immigration that was I don't know.
  9. Something happening at Salisbury hospital

    Any chance of a link? Because what you think happened and what actually did happen are not always the same thing. Here's one from MigrationWatch: https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/press-release/33 The Home Office estimate that between 5,000 - 13,000 immigrants per year will enter Britain when these countries become members of the EU in May next year, but, says think tank Migrationwatch, the number is likely to be closer to 40,000 a year Another option if you still have an account on HPC is to view some of the earliest content on there (Aug/Sep 2004) and it's clear from scanning the threads that immigration was not seen as that much of an issue and to the extent that it was the concern was more about illegals and asylum seekers rather than EE workers. Here's the very first mention of the word immigration: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/792-illegal-immigration-in-the-se-a-factor/&tab=comments#comment-7870 which generated the response " You've been listening too much to the BNP" The first reference I can find to EE migration is from the end of 2005: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/20790-the-difference-between-the-private-and-public-sectors/&page=2&tab=comments#comment-257437 Your first post on the issue (January 2011): http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/158140-every-2-out-of-3-new-jobs-go-to-emigrants/&page=8&tab=comments#comment-2867213 Going back to migration watch, these are their press releases for 2004: https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/press-releases/2004, virtually all of which are still about illegals/asylum This from December 2006 is perhaps the first point where EE immigration has clearly become a topic: https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/press-release/147 The Migrationwatch analysis also shows that, while the new arrivals from Eastern Europe have hit the headlines, immigration from Eastern Europe in 2005 accounted for only just over one in five foreign immigrants; the vast majority of the rest were from Asia and Africa.
  10. Windrush

    Isn't that just media bias and them reporting what they think sells papers, official incompetence and scandal being popular while "border agency does their job" isn't terribly exciting. And the public outcry is surely "don't be so f***ing incompetent" rather than open the floodgates.
  11. Windrush

    Would that not imply a degree of planning and forethought not normally found in Her Majesty's Government?
  12. Something happening at Salisbury hospital

    Okay, I'm assuming you're talking about statements prior to the A8 accession on 01/01/2004, lets see if we can put it to the test. Firstly I can't find any record of a government minister or spokesperson making that statement, but lets assume that they did; what I have found is this: https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/355 18.20 The Home Office commissioned a report to estimate the likely impact of opening up the UK labour market to citizens of the new member states. The report, written by Professor Dustmann et al, concluded that annual net migration from the accession countries would be between 5,000 and 13,000 if the UK labour market was opened up, and if Germany also opened up their labour market.[22] In the event of Germany restricting access the report’s authors concluded that some migrants would go to the UK instead but that ‘even in the worst case scenario, migration to the UK as a result of Eastern enlargement of the EU is not likely to be overly large.’ Which also helpfully links us to the full report here: http://www.christiandustmann.com/content/4-research/76-the-impact-of-eu-enlargement-on-migration-flows/dustmann_etal_2003_home_office_online_report_2503.pdf where we find in the executive summary (page 8): Estimates for the UK range between 5,000 and 13,000 net immigrants per year. The low estimates for the UK are related to the low historical migration rates, which are discussed in the text. In the case that Germany restricts free movement of workers for a longer period than the UK, some of those immigrants toGermany may use the UK as a destination. However, even in the worst case scenario, migration to the UK as a result of Eastern enlargement of the EU is not likely to be overly large. So not a lie, but an independent report prepared by an expert in the field that turned out to be completely wrong but was presumably an honest best guess at the time.
  13. Something happening at Salisbury hospital

    Here's a picture of some nice fluffy kittens to cheer you up.
  14. Something happening at Salisbury hospital

    I'm happy to question the "official narrative" when needed, but in this case there's a simple truth and an orchestrated campaign of lies trying to hide it.
  15. Something happening at Salisbury hospital

    Look what happened to Bliar.