Crusader

Members
  • Content Count

    23
  • Joined

  • Last visited

About Crusader

  • Rank
    Member

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

  1. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    The HFA have just confirmed that Moy Park chicken is no longer Halal Certified: Eventually got a reply back from the Halal Food Authority with regards to Moy Park..very interesting info: From: ****@halalfoodauthority.com To:***** Cc:'info',***@halalfoodauthority.com 21 Sep at 10:48 Asalaamualaikum Wr Wb, I hope you are well and in good health. Following your email to the our team with regards to Moy Park and its halal ceritifcation, I can confirm that we do not certify Moy Park or any of its chicken or meat productions. However, following my investigation, there seems to have been some misunderstanding which I shall try and clear for you. Moy park is not HFA certified, however its sub brand Kitchen range is HFA certified fornumber of products. all the products which are under our certificaiton do not contain meat or chicken. I have attached an image of the link that you have used to find the logo on and its is correct as its for Kitchen Range foods which is owned by Moy Park. I hope this clarifies the situation for you. HFA https://www.moypark.com/kitchen-range-foods/products
  2. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    This is perfectly fine because at least you know as a customer that things are indeed Halal and you have a choice to walk away and buy elswhere if you so choose> Its the shops who do not inform customers that are the real problem.
  3. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    These companie have now declared they are not Halal.. 5450 - Poultry - Traditional Norfolk Poultry, Attleborough - Available at supermarkets 5464 - Poultry - Banham Poultry Ltd, Attleborough - publically declared on their website - http://banhampoultryuk.com/products.php 4471 - Beef - Woodhead bros, Whitewalls Industrial Est, Colne - Morrison's own Abattoirs and whose fresh meat on their own Meat Counters is delared as non-Halal 5513 - Beef - Woodhead Bros, Pinchbeck, Spalding - Morrison's own Abattoirs and whose fresh meat on their own Meat Counters is delared as non-Halal 9056 - Beef - W D Meats Ltd, Coleraine Maybe the mesage is getting out!
  4. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    Big Mac may be safe but the Chicken isn't as it is supplied as Halal but then they cook it and make it non-Halal. But if it is slaughtered as Halal compliant it is STILL Halal with or without the certificate to say it is!!!! This is the big con for both Muslims and Non-Muslims...
  5. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    It looks as though they believe 8 Billion NEED HALAL to help fund the trillions... http://irep.iium.edu.my/45656/1/APIUM_Halal_Conf._by_Kayadibi_.pdf
  6. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    I updated the link to the Fatwa as I forgot to put it in...
  7. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    I believe they are choosy about what they eat and I understand thier own concerns about complying with religion. What I don't agree with is all food has to meet those very same standards for some reason. There are not only 2 religions in the UK and manufacturers seem to have deliberately ignored others and that cannot happen within a so-called multicultural society. Everyone has the right of choice not imposed restrictions fullstop. I read a report Muslim leaders themselves originally wanted labelling but for some reason they changed their minds. But this may be linked to Halal Certification and the money it generates for the Islamic Community/Charities. Nearly all the Halal Certification bodies are Islamic Charities (and have Tax exemptions as a consequence). The HFA is part of the Halal Food Foundation which is registered on the Charity Commission Website and it clearly details what the HFA & HFF objections are and this is Religious Activities. This are the links to the Halal Food Authority - note their activities as Religious Political Activities / Halal Food Foundation / Halal Monitoring Committee / Halal Consultation Ltd but there are more (some regularly change their names / businesses etc). Just go to Companies House or Charity Commision and type in Halal, Accreditation, Certification and any combination of those or similar words etc and see what comes up. The following was just one quick search all UK registered (it shows Halal Certification is a money earner or front for some businesses as it is a taxation exemption money earner): Halal Certification Europe Ltd - https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09128276 Halal Certification Organisation Ltd - https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10321924 Ark Halal Certification Authority Ltd - https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10265019 There are a lot of dissolved variations and a lot of new ones but then research the people of those sites and associated businesses But if you read the paperwork you will see they only spend money of Islamic causes, Islamic conferences, promoting Halal, Islamic speakers etc just as Zakat is only allowed to be spent on Islamic only causes (to help pay for the converting of non-Islamics to Islam, Pay for Jihadists, Religious Warriors and buy weapons for them - These are not my words but those of religious scholars and those cotained within there own Fatwas (religious rulings). Look at this explaination from an Islamic Site - Fatwa Ruling - Look at number 7 in the list of what Zakat/Islamic Charity money can be spent on. Companies that pay for Certification have to pay either a fixed Annual Fee or a fee based on productivity (i.e. 5p a Kilo of meat). HMC Website explaining these costs - Link Here The bigger the company the larger the income generated but then they have to have employees working at those plants to ensure compliance (religious inspectors) or have to accept regular onsite visits to ensure they comply with Shariah Law or indeed the Halal Certification board standards (these vary). So evrey certification incurs a cost to the end product because that is how businesses operate. That cost is past on to all it's customers as part of the pricing strategy. This in relaity everyone pays money into Islamic Charities when they buy Halal Certified Goods whether you want to or not and this applies to all non-Muslims. No business will say 'not it's not because I paid for that out of my own pocket!!!' It is all incorporated as part of the pricing of goods. It is no wonder the Islamic Finance industry has stated the Halal Market is worth Billions to them!!
  8. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    Is it me or have they misunderstood what this labelling will offer to everyone? Why is it discriminatory? Halal will be properly labelled for Muslims. Kosher will be identified for Jews. And food not labelled as s uch should be for persons who do not want to eat Halal/Kosher. Or is this about potential money being lost through income regarding Halal / Kosher Certification? https://halalfocus.net/uk-discriminatory-labelling-proposed-for-method-of-slaughter-aimed-at-halal-and-kosher/
  9. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    But your beef could actually be Kosher and that is the other major concern. The back end of cows which Jews do not eat gets passed off into the food chain unlabelled because they won't throw it away or their own beef would be too expensive. Kosher slaughter is completely unstunned for all their animals. It's not just Halal but Kosher too!
  10. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    When you are next out at a supermarket/Shop etc ask the butche behind the counter how poultry is slaughtered and I bet they tell you Stunned. Ask them does that mean they are alive when throats are cut and they will say yes. Ask them if this means it is Halal and watch them twitch and lie while they say NO. Then ask if you don't sell halal why does the Chicken have to be alive for the throat cutting why not just stun to kill/ or Gas them them before having their throats cut and see even more twitching... Film it to.... Info from Islamic Site ref Gargills/Freemans of Newent/Faccenda) but please be advised this is the same process the vast majority of poultry plants use in thr UK and this is approved and accepted by some of the Halal Accreditation providers in the UK such as the Halal Food Authority (HFA) and Halal Consultations Ltd (HCL) and others. This is why most chicken in the UK is Halal because it is the same process but suppliers know this but will not label it because they didn't ask for it to be Halal. If they don't want Halal why don't they just ask for it not be and kill the birds before slaughtering their necks? This is the same for 2 Sisters Chicken aswell (HFA registered - sold at Costco's). Companies such as Crown (Costco's), Salibury (schools), Highbury (schools) etc all hold different certifications but essentially Halal. Extract: We visited FREEMAN’S OF NEWENT Slaughters approx up to 50,000 – 60,000 birds a day, and is one of the main suppliers of halal poultry to the UK I was met on arrival by Ali Bham, Head Slaughtermen of Freeman’s. After being introduced to various members of Senior Staff at Freeman’s, Ali explained his job and what measurements and Islamic standards he implements in his work to ensure that all Freeman’s chickens are 100% halal. He has worked for Freeman’s for the past 24 years. I was met on arrival by Ali Bham, Head Slaughtermen of Freeman’s. After being introduced to various members of Senior Staff at Freeman’s, Ali explained his job and what measurements and Islamic standards he implements in his work to ensure that all Freeman’s chickens are 100% halal. He has worked for Freeman’s for the past 24 years. The process for slaughter is as follows: All the chickens are hung upside down on a line, their heads are dipped for about 1- 2 seconds in a tub of water and they are stunned with a high frequency stunner, at a set voltage of 39 volts. This temporarily knocks the chickens out. When the chickens had been stunned, we were encouraged by Ali to touch the birds and feel their heart beat. Numerous chickens were touched and all had a heart beat and felt warm. Some chickens were still moving/flapping wings after being stunned. We removed chickens at will after stunning from the line and placed them on the floor. All birds opened their eyes after 5-10 seconds. After 1 minute the birds were trying to get up. After 2 mins, birds absolutely normal and walking around.
  11. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    These are some of the comments from restaurants and shops etc: Nandos Halal Chicken We have 402 restaurants, 73 of which serve only Halal chicken and are signposted both in the restaurant and online. A small proportion of chicken sold in our other restaurants may also be Halal. Who supplies our Halal chicken? Our Halal chickens are supplied to us by Cargill Freemans of Newent (Faccenda). They are authorised by the Islamic Institute of Jurisprudence and are one of the UK’s leading suppliers of Halal chicken. We ensure that Cargill Freemans of Newent follow the strict Red Tractor Farm Assurance Standards. All our chickens are indoor-reared. They are pre-stunned which minimises suffering and fear. The method used is a high frequency stun – this means the chicken is still alive, but unconscious when it is hand slaughtered and blessed by licensed Muslim slaughter men. Pizza Express All the chicken on pizzas served at Pizza Express is halal. According to the website: "None of our other meats are halal and we do not have any halal restaurants.” ASK Italian Restaurant uses both halal and non halal chicken. The menu does not say which dishes are halal - but you can find this information on the website. On the website the restaurant states: "The halal chicken is halal at source; our kitchens don’t operate halal procedures. All our other meats are non halal. Beefeater/Table Table/Brewers Fayre/Costa Coffee/Bar & Block Restuarants The Beefeater website states: "In our restaurant business none of our beef or lamb is halal, however a small percentage (less than 10%) of our poultry is sourced from suppliers that use halal methods in their factories. "We don't sell any meat products for any specific religious groups and we don't select suppliers based on their Halal or non-Halal credentials. "Additionally we do not display any information relating to Halal to our customers and we would never advise customers that our meat is suitable for any religious groups. " German Doner Kebab "We serves 100% lean halal meat (chicken and beef), imported from Germany, across all our branches in the UK. Las Iguanas "Our chicken, lamb & duck are halal in all of our branches, other meats are not halal including beef and chorizo. "All halal poultry and meat is pre-stunned in line with EU guidelines and our commitment to animal welfare." McDonald's says all the chicken in its restaurants comes from poultry which has been stunned before slaughter (see Nando's above regarding stunning) - i.e. slaughtered to Halal standards. Asda Britain's second-largest supermarket chain, has admitted that much of its lamb and chicken is slaughtered according to Islamic ritual. A company source said: 'It's fair to say that most lamb is halal and I would say half of the chicken is halal.' Islamic law requires Muslims to slaughter animals by slitting their throat while reciting an Arabic prayer which translates as: 'In the name of Allah, who is the greatest.' Faccenda (Part of Cargills also inc Freemans of Newent) Brierley Hill (West Midlands) beater, a Faccenda-owned slaughterhouse, 2nd largest country chicken producer. The Halal Food Authority (HFA) told us that Faccenda was allowed to sell halal poultry. Faccenda said in a statement: "Faccenda Group fully complies with all current EU laws. This includes the use of stunning.
  12. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    If you read this report from a while ago referencing the supply chain of unlabelled Halal in the UK at key venues and by businesses and restaurant chains you will see nothing much has changed at all despite how much people complain... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1313303/Britain-goes-halal---tells-public.html Recent replies: Brewers Fayre/Beefeater etc don't sell Halal so they claim but yet later admitted selling Halal but they won't tell what that is so how can you not choose it!! (info from Whitbread directly). Dear Whitbread, Ref: Whitbread Inns, Premier Inn, Taybarns, Beefeater, Table Table, Brewers Fayre Food. I have just read these comments you have made in reply to a request for information on Halal products being sold by Beefeater. However I would like Whitbread Groups to address these comments by Beefeater as detailed below, that would help me understand Whitbread’s overall stance on the provision of Halal Food throughout your group. Beefeater Grill Comments: Hi ***, Thanks for your message. Whitbread's growing popularity with the diverse, multi-cultural population across the UK and Ireland means we have to balance the values of many religious communities with the company’s overall aim of improving the health and welfare standards of animals. Question: When you state you take into consideration values of religious communities are you taking into consideration people not Islamic/Jewish? Halal is a religious process not just a method of killing an animal. If you fully understand this process you will know that it is forbidden in some other religions to eat Ritually Slaughtered Meat/Poultry (as follows). What is Halal Halal slaughtering involves cutting through the large arteries in the neck with one swipe of a blade, while a Muslim butcher recites a religious verse. All blood is then drained away since the consumption of blood is forbidden under Islamic Law (Shariah). Under Islamic Shariah Law, an animal must be slaughtered by having its throat cut while it is conscious. Beefeater Grill Comments: It is important to stress that our suppliers are required to comply with UK and EU animal welfare legislation as a minimum and to source from farms that uphold the principles of the RSPCA’s Five Freedoms applicable to each meat species to ensure the health and welfare of animals throughout our supply chain. Question: You know there is an increasing requirement from the Islamic community to have their meat/poultry Un-Stunned and this is a growing market that is being supported by the lack of government legislation. This is being challenged by the RSPCA and the BVA etc. This method of slaughter is offensive to the majority of people in the UK and these concerns are growing rapidly. Will you as a company be selling or providing non-stunned meat in the future? Beefeater Grill Comments: Whitbread sources meat from a number of countries including Britain. Regardless of the origin, Whitbread only purchases animals that have been stunned prior to slaughter from approved suppliers, ensuring that we comply with both EC regulations and industry best practice for animal welfare standards. A number of Halal organisations do accept that these products meet their requirements and therefore be deemed suitable to be recognised as Halal. Question: EU/UK policies currently do not outlaw Un-Stunned religious slaughter. However as stipulated above Halal is not just about the method of slaughter but also the Religious rites at the time of Slaughter. I for one want to be informed as to whether your products have been religiously slaughters for my own religious beliefs. As such do you clearly indicate on your menus which meat/poultry product has been processed and religiously slaughtered to conform to Halal Shariah religious requirements? Question: It is clear from many suppliers/purveyors etc that there is a lack of understanding regarding Halal and how offensive it can be to non-Islamic religions. With this in mind do you now or intend to label your menus with appropriate Halal signs to allow a religious freedom of choice for your customers? I look forward to your response on this matter and would like to thank you for your time and consideration on this matter. Miller & Carter (Mitchells & Butlers Group - see their chains ) are supplied by a Halal Merchant so how can anyone be sure (Fairfax Meadows). But their web says it isn't Halal but then they also say that their prepared food will not be considered as Halal. True Red BBQ Chain - They state that they do serve Halal yet they are supplied Meat as Halal but they say when they cook it on the grill it can be contaminated by non-Halal food so therefore it cannot be Halal - From their FAQs page: Q Is your meat halal? A None of the meat supplied to us is certified as Halal - They are hiding behind the Certified word but yet they have admitted in emails they are supplied Halal Chicken. From: Vikki Little [mailto:vlittle@truebarbecue.com] Sent: 20 March 2014 To: ******* Subject: Halal option Hi ******, We do use halal chicken, however it does spend time in our smokers alongside our beef and pork…..If you would like to go ahead with your booking then do let me know the time and date you’re interested in and I’ll pop that into our diary for you. We do ask that all of our reservations pay a deposit of £5 per person, to be redeemed per guest from your bill. If there’s anything further you’d like to know please do get in touch, So I wrote to them again to clarify Feb 2018 as this was their reply: Hi That’s quite an old email now, but what it says is right. The chicken that we buy in is Halal when it comes from the butchers, but because of the smoking process where it will be alongside beef and pork, it is no longer Halal. Like I say, with our smokers running 24/7 to keep up with demand, we do have to put different types of meet inside the same smoker which will mean chicken isn’t Halal by the time it’s cooked. Thanks Anthony Nothing appears to be as it seems these days and asking questions doesn't always mean you get an answer..
  13. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    This info is there and this is an ongoing public declaration that hopefully those who care will pay attention and those who don't get to understand just how much of a problem there is. This doc gets updated regularly and explains what is going on and shows just how much companies are trying to hide the truth. It also shows that the Churches of England don't care either and neither do the MPs as correspondence shows in the post - Religous Slaughter Why Should You Care? There are many sites on FB that provides details of Abattoirs/shops/suppliers who do not sell or slaughter to Religious Standards and is growing through through a lot of peoples efforts. https://www.facebook.com/groups/354606858218877/ There are lots of Freedom of Information (FOI) Requests going in to councils, Schools, MPs etc to get to the truth and identify the scale of the matter. Schools are a major concern as some of these FOIs have shown. Many schools are being provided Halal Food and they are not identifying this to pupils. A common excuse is that the heads of schools believe they don't need to tell pupils because the only difference is an Islamic prayer! Some blame caterers but yet they don't stipulate any requirement not to provide Halal/Kosher food to pupils who are non-Jewish/Islamic. If you go to WhatdoTheyKnow and search for Halal you will see the problems out there. For those who have children at schools there is a letter circulating that parents who have objections to Religiously Slaughtered Food being served to their children. It requests that this is stopped immediately (see attached). There are plenty of Boycott Halal sites out there too to look at and I am sure you will find something of interest. And to back it up there are plenty of media out there that both explain and show what really happens such as this link but be warned the video section does not hold back. The Halal Video Links Doc also contains links to media but it is not for the faint hearted but shows the extent of the practice of Religious Slaughter and Reversible Stunning. School Letter-ver 1.doc RS Video Links.docx
  14. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    But why should we be forced to do because of 5% of the UK population?
  15. Crusader

    What if I don't Want Halal?

    But this does not explain religious slaughter that is dependant on which Halal Certification provider is used. Halal Food Authority allow reversible Stunning, the HMC do not . So in fact religious slaughter can be animals that have been stunned aswell. The above legislation is being quoted by Government officials. They claim they intend to look at labelling to reflect Religious Slaughter but they also state it will be about Un-Stunned animals when in fact Reversibly stunned animals are also considered Religiously Slaughtered. This is the supermarkets escape clause too. It's all legal even though the system is being abused because DEFRA and FSA have no monitoring legislation to ensure that this market only feeds the Muslims and Jews as per current legislation and they don't really care.