• Welcome to DOSBODS

     

    DOSBODS is free of any advertising.

    Ads are annoying, and - increasingly - advertising companies limit free speech online. DOSBODS Forums are completely free to use. Please create a free account to be able to access all the features of the DOSBODS community. It only takes 20 seconds!

     

Sign in to follow this  
One percent

It’s educashun Jim, just not as we know it #132

Recommended Posts

The dumbing down of the populace continues a pace. This really isn’t going to end well

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7242631/Maths-spelling-tests-trainee-teachers-scrapped-attempt-boost-staff-numbers.html

Standard maths and English tests for trainee teachers are set to be scrapped.

The move is aimed at boosting recruitment – but seems certain to spark fears of dumbing down.

At present, trainees must pass national tests in literacy and numeracy before being awarded Qualified Teacher Status. At least 3,500 applicants – or about 10 per cent – have failed them every year since 2012.

Schools minister Nick Gibb wrote last year that the exams ‘reassure parents and schools leaders’ that teachers ‘can demonstrate a high standard of numeracy and literacy when they enter the classroom’.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Theres a couples of points here.

The maths n english test are pretty basic - think sub GCSE.

Initially, anyone who failed the tests three times was locked out of training for two years before he or she could retake them – but this limit was removed last February. The Government is now expected to scrap the tests, with training providers allowed to use their own methods to measure skills. This could involve coursework or practical assessments.

This is the exact same move that turned NVQ into potential to massive pointless make-work scheme.

The pitch of  NVQ3 is that its equivalent to 2 x A levels. They might have intended that but speaking a someone who sat thru an NVQ3 TA courses, to see if it was any good, its not even close to a single easy GCSE.

They used to have a basic english n maths test -and I mean basic - think primary school level. The training contractors, various public/private orgs, all 100% wimmin, scrapped that hurdle as barely anyone passed.

I think 10% failing the teaching eng + maths test shows that the system is working. It also shows that theres a hefty number of grads (95% of people starting PGSE will be grads) who dont have GCSE level maths n english

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Flip side is someone say teaching art or PE could be the best teacher in the world - so they explicitly really need the maths element in the requirements.

Daughter has a Russian (I think) lecturer at Uni, apparently the students care barely understand his english.

Anomalies in requirements all over the place at every level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Theres a couples of points here.

The maths n english test are pretty basic - think sub GCSE.

Initially, anyone who failed the tests three times was locked out of training for two years before he or she could retake them – but this limit was removed last February. The Government is now expected to scrap the tests, with training providers allowed to use their own methods to measure skills. This could involve coursework or practical assessments.

This is the exact same move that turned NVQ into potential to massive pointless make-work scheme.

The pitch of  NVQ3 is that its equivalent to 2 x A levels. They might have intended that but speaking a someone who sat thru an NVQ3 TA courses, to see if it was any good, its not even close to a single easy GCSE.

They used to have a basic english n maths test -and I mean basic - think primary school level. The training contractors, various public/private orgs, all 100% wimmin, scrapped that hurdle as barely anyone passed.

I think 10% failing the teaching eng + maths test shows that the system is working. It also shows that theres a hefty number of grads (95% of people starting PGSE will be grads) who dont have GCSE level maths n english

 

 

All people starting a PGCE will be graduates. It’s in the title. Post Graduate...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, One percent said:

All people starting a PGCE will be graduates. It’s in the title. Post Graduate...

Ah but not all teachers are PGCEs.

Maybe this is another example of more HE = lower skills.

Nothing worse than seeing a teacher pull the 'Im a graduate!' trick when a parent has questioned them about their spelling, grammar or maths. And the parent coming back with 'So am I, whats your degree? Thats wrong'

Laugh but I used to have a quick walk around the classes to make sure there was no obvious clanger on the class walls. Then discreetly take the material off the wall or put another bit of work over the mistake.

Examples (from memory):

Little Red Ridding Hood.

Octapus

Various tortured sentences.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, spygirl said:

The maths n english test are pretty basic - think sub GCSE.

I will speak from a position of some[/i] experience here because my wife did half of a PGCE before dropping out when our first kid unexpectedly arrived on the scene.

The tests are “basic”,  but as I recall they were mental arithmetic.

Mental arithmetic is one of those things that anyone can do with lots of practice and training,  but very few can do well on the spur of the moment.  I remember seeing the example questions and thinking “sh1t” I wouldn’t be able to answer that!

I was actually quite impressed when Mrs Libspero passed and got on the course.  She must be the brains of the family O.o

Edited by Libspero

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, One percent said:

All people starting a PGCE will be graduates. It’s in the title. Post Graduate...

Which just means the degree system doesn't discriminate against the non-english speakers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Libspero said:

I will speak from a position of some[/i] experience here because my wife did half of a PGCE before dropping out when our first kid unexpectedly arrived on the scene.

The tests are “basic”,  but as I recall they were mental arithmetic.

Mental arithmetic is one of those things that anyone can do with lots of practice and training,  but very few can do well on the spur of the moment.  I remember seeing the example questions and thinking “sh1t” I wouldn’t be able to answer that!

I was actually quite impressed when Mrs Libspero passed and got on the course.  She must be the brains of the family O.o

Nope.

Not from what I saw.

Its maths without a calculator, not mental arithmetic.

You can have pen n paper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
Quote

 

Test content:

The numeracy skills test is divided into two areas:

• Mental arithmetic section

• Written section (written arithmetic and written data)

 

http://sta.education.gov.uk/professional-skills-tests/numeracy-skills-tests

Was equally surprised that she passed the English language section since it’s her second language..  that said she did used to correct other teachers whiteboard spelling mistakes when she was a teachers assistant so not sure how high that bar really is.

Edited by Libspero

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Libspero said:

Was equally surprised that she passed the English language section since it’s her second language..  that said she did used to correct other teachers whiteboard spelling mistakes when she was a teachers assistant so not sure how high that bar really is.

Not a surprise. My experience is that people with a good command of English as a second language can make excellent proof-readers - but may struggle more when trying to write fluid, concise, easy-to-read prose. Both are important skills which can't yet be completely replaced by AI. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.