Pizza Shit

[spunko]

27 minutes ago, dgul said:

Works out at £1.6million debt per restaurant.

You could probably buy the restaurants 3 times over for that, yet they're leasehold.

PE strikes again.

Indeed. Finally, it seems people are waking up to how destructive private equity has been for the High St.

Timely reminder that on a £16 pizza, Dominos makes about 80p profit - possibly that is before tax, can't quite remember.

[One percent]

58 minutes ago, dgul said:

Works out at £1.6million debt per restaurant.

You could probably buy the restaurants 3 times over for that, yet they're leasehold.

PE strikes again.

crazy. 

[invalid]

1 hour ago, spunko said:

Indeed. Finally, it seems people are waking up to how destructive private equity has been for the High St.

Timely reminder that on a £16 pizza, Dominos makes about 80p profit - possibly that is before tax, can't quite remember.

That's a surprise, I expected the profit margins on pizzas to be huge - well I guess they are huge but its about who gets the biggest slices.

[One percent]

9 minutes ago, null; said:

That's a surprise, I expected the profit margins on pizzas to be huge - well I guess they are huge but its about who gets the biggest slices.

I see what you did there. 

[spygirl]

1 hour ago, spunko said:

Indeed. Finally, it seems people are waking up to how destructive private equity has been for the High St.

Timely reminder that on a £16 pizza, Dominos makes about 80p profit - possibly that is before tax, can't quite remember.

Well .... margins on pizza are high - 80% +

Franchisee will take a vhunk, then remit 80p to Dominoes.

I doubt dominoes margins are so obvious - or low.

[Ash4781b]

Blimey and that’s running constant voucher offers and full restaurants. Imagine they are just keeping cash coming in. Silly really that’s far too much debt. Though I guess if you can pass the parcel and successfully exit...,

[One percent]

Just for balance, I have a bread maker and do occasionally make my own pizza. I reckon to feed a family of four costs me a couple of quid. 

[spunko]

36 minutes ago, Ash4781b said:

Blimey and that’s running constant voucher offers and full restaurants. Imagine they are just keeping cash coming in. Silly really that’s far too much debt. Though I guess if you can pass the parcel and successfully exit...,

Went to P.E. last month on a Saturday at about 3pm in one of the larger towns in the SE. Only 4 tables taken, including us... And we used a voucher. If they're running at a loss on a Sat. afternoon there's no hope.

[DownwardSpiral]

If you pay full price at Pizza Express then you’ve made a silly mistake; there are 2 for 1 vouchers online almost constantly.

I have visited a few times with my partner and we each have a margherita pizza and a jug of tap water. Total bill = £8.95. There is no profit in that when you consider all their costs - insane.

No I won’t buy a can of lemonade for £3.00!!

[spunko]

49 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Well .... margins on pizza are high - 80% +

Franchisee will take a vhunk, then remit 80p to Dominoes.

I doubt dominoes margins are so obvious - or low.

The problem IIRC is their staff and ingredients costs. Even though most of the staff are gimmegrants round here, they still get minimum "living" wage, and tend to have at least 10 staff going at any time in kitchen/prep areas. Plus managers and delivery drivers etc. Cost of running 1-2x mopeds per branch is: hourly wage of 1 Polish driver, petrol, insurance, etc, having to go there and back again, before it gets cold, I'm surprised they still bother with delivery to be honest.

-

I think it'll be sad if Pizza Express goes under personally. They've been part of the British High St for ages, and you know what you're getting at least. Yeah they're expensive for what they are, unless using a voucher, but if you want to sit down and eat a pizza in what are often quite old, historic buildings then I reckon they're quite unique. Better than Pizza Hut.

[Craig]

4 minutes ago, DownwardSpiral said:

If you pay full price at Pizza Express then you’ve made a silly mistake; there are 2 for 1 vouchers online almost constantly.

I have visited a few times with my partner and we each have a margherita pizza and a jug of tap water. Total bill = £8.95. There is no profit in that when you consider all their costs - insane.

No I won’t buy a can of lemonade for £3.00!!

The waiters used to have some great scams running with those vouchers. They didn't put any sort of code on them for years (to prevent you photocopying or printing multiple copies), so any table who paid full price would be put through with a voucher. Could make an extra £50 on top of your £50 (tax free) tips in one shift, so I'm told...

[spygirl]

20 minutes ago, spunko said:

The problem IIRC is their staff and ingredients costs. Even though most of the staff are gimmegrants round here, they still get minimum "living" wage, and tend to have at least 10 staff going at any time in kitchen/prep areas. Plus managers and delivery drivers etc. Cost of running 1-2x mopeds per branch is: hourly wage of 1 Polish driver, petrol, insurance, etc, having to go there and back again, before it gets cold, I'm surprised they still bother with delivery to be honest.

-

I think it'll be sad if Pizza Express goes under personally. They've been part of the British High St for ages, and you know what you're getting at least. Yeah they're expensive for what they are, unless using a voucher, but if you want to sit down and eat a pizza in what are often quite old, historic buildings then I reckon they're quite unique. Better than Pizza Hut.

Food robots......

Kids love maccyds order screens.

I look at ways you could automate stuff.

Chips would be a doddle.

[One percent]

3 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Food robots......

Kids love maccyds order screens.

I look at ways you could automate stuff.

Chips would be a doddle.

I’m not sure automation would solve the issue. Staff in these establishments are minimum wage drones. The real money is being siphoned elsewhere. Hint. It’s not in a bit of flour and mozzarella. 

[invalid]

29 minutes ago, spunko said:

Went to P.E. last month on a Saturday at about 3pm in one of the larger towns in the SE. Only 4 tables taken, including us... And we used a voucher. If they're running at a loss on a Sat. afternoon there's no hope.

This is what I've been seeing in the ones round my way as well, a few years back they were often mentioned as plces to go for lunches or nights out, not heard them mentioned in a long time. As was mentioned above, they need to die and free up the space for something better.

[invalid]

8 minutes ago, One percent said:

I’m not sure automation would solve the issue. Staff in these establishments are minimum wage drones. The real money is being siphoned elsewhere. Hint. It’s not in a bit of flour and mozzarella. 

Very true and that's what I'm curious about, there is a big chunk of profit in there but where does it go? Who gets the dough?

Lets not mention calzone....

[One percent]

11 minutes ago, null; said:

Very true and that's what I'm curious about, there is a big chunk of profit in there but where does it go? Who gets the dough?

Lets not mention calzone....

PE. 

[invalid]

2 minutes ago, One percent said:

PE. 

Pizza Express or Private Equity? Or Physical Education?

No matter how its sliced, someone is panning out the best bits. Shocked at how many weirdoughs out there are saying they should be saved. I think they had topped out and there is not mushroom for improvement. It's a shame that they just couldn't deliver. Everyone wants a pizza the action.

[One percent]

4 minutes ago, null; said:

Pizza Express or Private Equity? Or Physical Education?

No matter how its sliced, someone is panning out the best bits. Shocked at how many weirdoughs out there are saying they should be saved. I think they had topped out and there is not mushroom for improvement. It's a shame that they just couldn't deliver. Everyone wants a pizza the action.

Private equity. I think from posts upthread, it’s owned by the Chinese and at a price that far outweighs the assets or income. 

What could possibly go wrong?  

2 minutes ago, Tdog said:

Will have to stock up on the tins of Pizza Express Tomato sauce from Tesco.

Ffs why?  You can add your own herbs to a tin of tomatoes at a fraction of the cost 

[One percent]

3 minutes ago, Tdog said:

But its not as nice. Not all tomatoes are the same

[invalid]

6 minutes ago, One percent said:

Private equity. I think from posts upthread, it’s owned by the Chinese and at a price that far outweighs the assets or income. 

What could possibly go wrong?  

Ffs why?  You can add your own herbs to a tin of tomatoes at a fraction of the cost 

 

This bit surprised me. Was this a naive Chinese investment thinking they had a long term future with a UK chain or the typical borrow cheap, take dividends and run type?

Genuine question and hoping the dosdods massive can supply some insights.

[One percent]

2 minutes ago, null; said:

 

This bit surprised me. Was this a naive Chinese investment thinking they had a long term future with a UK chain or the typical borrow cheap, take dividends and run type?

Genuine question and hoping the dosdods massive can supply some insights.

God knows but this does seem to be a common denominator behind a lot of recent failures. Not so much the Chinese but some giant squid sucking the capital and profit out of some company   

[dgul]

22 minutes ago, null; said:

 

This bit surprised me. Was this a naive Chinese investment thinking they had a long term future with a UK chain or the typical borrow cheap, take dividends and run type?

Genuine question and hoping the dosdods massive can supply some insights.

I don't really understand the PE model.

As far as I can tell the model is to appear nice, take out loads of loans against the company, pay the PE company loads (from the loans) for as long as possible, and then when the 'time is up' let the company go bankrupt with the debts disappearing.  But, the problem with that model is you'd have thought the banks (and other lenders) would have worked it out by now and not offered loans into the PE purchased companies -- but they just keep on doing it.

Perhaps the banks are just really dumb?

[invalid]

1 hour ago, dgul said:

I don't really understand the PE model.

As far as I can tell the model is to appear nice, take out loads of loans against the company, pay the PE company loads (from the loans) for as long as possible, and then when the 'time is up' let the company go bankrupt with the debts disappearing.  But, the problem with that model is you'd have thought the banks (and other lenders) would have worked it out by now and not offered loans into the PE purchased companies -- but they just keep on doing it.

Perhaps the banks are just really dumb?

Your take on the PE model is how I see it.

They seem to go for companies that are established and have trading history with good profits. So on paper it looks safe to the banks.

Its no so much surprising that the banks lend in the first place, its that they allow it to happen. Either poor covenants, perhaps dodgy management reporting, or perhaps when it starts going wrong the banks become just another passenger along for the ride.

Went past an empty mothercare store the other day and made a comment about havn't they gone bust yet? Perhaps they are still around because there is no PE involved? I'm only guessing on this, for all I know they are fully loaded with debt.

[spygirl]

8 hours ago, dgul said:

I don't really understand the PE model.

As far as I can tell the model is to appear nice, take out loads of loans against the company, pay the PE company loads (from the loans) for as long as possible, and then when the 'time is up' let the company go bankrupt with the debts disappearing.  But, the problem with that model is you'd have thought the banks (and other lenders) would have worked it out by now and not offered loans into the PE purchased companies -- but they just keep on doing it.

Perhaps the banks are just really dumb?

yes

[spygirl]

9 hours ago, null; said:

 

This bit surprised me. Was this a naive Chinese investment thinking they had a long term future with a UK chain or the typical borrow cheap, take dividends and run type?

Genuine question and hoping the dosdods massive can supply some insights.

Chinese capital best in world.

Round eye devil too short termy. Communist with capitalist tendency much better mista.

....

Itsa bunch of the dumbest money i nthe world, desperate to buy assets outside of China as, dumb as they are, know that Chinese orgs are mainly fucking shit, so theyll buy literally anything.

Chinese central bank print loads, orgs took the money and blew it.

Chine CB has stopped printing and is jailing people who made unpatriotic investments.

Anyone whos made unpatriotic investment and lost it will be shot. Literally.