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DoINeedOne

Economic Survival & Breakdown Of Society

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So a few people seemed interested in a thread of this kind of theme Surviving an economic collapse or similar.

So rather than this be a thread about living in a bunker and how we would kill everyone in sight like we're in the Walking Dead.

I thought it would be a nice place for several things stories, facts and information about different things that are happening around the world current and past like Argentina, Venezuela, Cyprus etc...

Whilst I don't think the UK would get that bad you can never say really and we all seen how easily things can escalate with the looting and fires in London.

And the below video was not even to do with anything as extreme as a financial collapse but escalated quickly.

 

Again would like to try and keep this thread about learning from current and past events

 

 

 

Edited by DoINeedOne

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When a guy I used to work with told me about everything he lost in Argentina being in my own little world I didn't even know what had happened there, which is when I started looking online and came across this PDF that is an interesting read 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1m246bmxb9o2y34/Argentinastory.pdf?dl=0

 

Some parts that I highlighted from the PDF above

The misery and famine lead us to a situation where, even though you may have food, shelter and health care, most other didn't which lead to sickness and a lot of spread of diseases all over the region.

When it came to security those that want to harm or steal from you didn't come waving a pirate flag or look like thugs a lot of the stories were how the person who robbed, attacked them just looked like a normal person.

A lot of people talk about how they would kick everyone's arse if they tried to rob or attack them but like the guy said whos watching your back when you're trying to fix something in the dark with a torch

A large city can run out of bottled water quickly and with looting in Argentina the guy talked about how the tap water was not great and maintenance from the water company went downhill whilst water costs increased.

Power has always been a problem there and just after 2001 half the country went 3 days without power, people stuck in elevators, food rots hospital generators ran out of fuel and crime increased.

GOLD!!
Someone hit me in the head please because I messed up about the gold issue. Everyone wants to buy gold! “I buy gold. Pay cash” signs are everywhere, even on TV! I can’t believe I’m that silly! I just didn’t relate it to what I read here because they deal with junk gold, like jewellery, either stolen or sold because they needed the money, not the gold coins that you guys talk about. No one pays for the true value of the stuff, so big WARNING! Sign on people that are buying gold coins. Since it is impossible to determine the true mineral percentage of gold, small shops and dealers will pay for it as regular jewellery gold. What I would do if I were you: Besides gold coins, buy a lot of small gold rings and other jewellery. They should be less expensive than gold coins, and if the SHTF bad, you won’t be losing money, selling premium quality gold coins for the price of junk gold. If I could travel back in time, I’d buy a small bag of gold rings.

Small-time thieves will snatch gold chains right out of your neck and sell them at these small dealers found everywhere.This is VERY common at train stations, subways and other crowded areas. . my advice, if you are preparing for a small economical crisis, gold coins make sense. You will keep the value of the stuff and be able to sell it for its actual cost to gold dealers or maybe other survivalists that know the true value of them. In my case, gold coins would have been an excellent investment, saving me from losing money when the local economy crashed. Even though things are bad, I can go to a bank downtown and get paid for what a gold coin is truly worth, same goes for pure silver. But where I live, in my local area small-time dealers will only pay you the value of junk gold, no matter what kind of gold you have. . I’d have to say that if TSHTF bad, gold jewellery is a better trade item than gold coins.


After TSHTF in 2001, only the most narrow-minded, brainwashed, butterfly IQ level idiots believed that the police would protect them from the crime wave that followed the collapse of our economy

 

Financial security, and the ability to move: The greatest survival trait Which brings me to my final consideration on survival, my final conclusion concerning surviving mayor crisis. 

Money. Yes, some paper money, gold, silver, but mostly money in accounts in a couple of “safe” countries and money invested in real estate. We had people going from middle class to poor over here. We had people going through some terrible situations, and it’s safe to say that those that fared better where those with solid finances.

 

FOOD
A delicate issue. Even though not in the same way, it does affect us all. Keep in mind that if TSHTF, prepared or not, food will always be in your thoughts. If you don’t have it you’ll do ANYTHING to get it, and if you are prepared you’ll worry about being able to get more for the future. Once you see food prices go up between 200% and 300% or simply see it missing, you’ll realize what a valuable commodity food really is.


If you don’t have your food needs sorted out already, just do what I did; start buying a little extra
every time you go to the supermarket. The point is you want to look for your storage food are, in
order of importance:
1) No need for the fridge.
2) High nutritious value/volume
3) Long shelf life, between 1-5 years.
4) That they don’t need water
5) That they don’t need cooking
This will usually take you to canned meats, canned tuna, canned vegetables, dried pasta, dehydrated
soups, chocolate, milk powder, marmalades, soups, rice and dried beans.
Canned food is excellent when it comes to long shelf life. Most of the time they are already
hydrated, so they don’t need water, and you can eat them out of the can.


The survivalist, especially the urban one, should try to rely upon as little as possible in the fridge. That’s why canned food and freeze-dried food is your best friend. Yet, anyone who has been for a while with no fresh fruit knows that after some time the skin starts to suffer. Sores will appear after a while, especially on delicate skin like the lips and mouth. Once you start eating fresh fruits and vegetables again they go away. This happened to me once, spent to much time without fresh vegetables and my mouth was a mess, full of sores. After a week of eating fresh vegetables regularly, the symptoms disappeared. That’s why you should try to have some fresh food to supplement your storage food.


One day the Minister of Economy declared that no one would be able to get more than 100 bucks a day from the ATM (correct?) nor close accounts. You could just get 100 bucks out of the bank a day. That was it. Then came the devaluation. Before this happened 1 U$S= 1 $ Argentine peso. Suddenly this changed into 1 U$S dollar= 2 peso then 2.5 even 4 pesos. Today 1U$S= 3 Pesos. The banks kept the people’s money, including their deposits in US dollars. If you had 1000 U$S dollars in Bank Boston for example, they turned it into 1000 pesos, that equalled 333 U$S dollars. They stole 666 dollars from you! Prices went up 200%, 300% and sometimes more. Imagine for one moment what your life would be like if today you go to your local 7-11 and everything has gone up 200%. How would you survive with your paycheck? The sheep got desperate. First, because they had been stolen by banks and wouldn’t return the money to the people. (The so-called “corralito”) then because the classes with the lowest income found out that their salaries weren’t high enough to buy the minimum foodstuff to survive. The country marched asking for the president’s resignation. He had to leave the presidential palace in a chopper... Banks were destroyed by people that wanted their hard-earned money back. Supermarkets and other shops were looted, as well as regular houses. This lasted for about a month, the chaos spread all over the country, concentrated in the largest cities

 

The part in bold above about the devaluation is what effected the guy that i used to work with he and his family had worked hard to save to buy a family home but there savings were in the bank and in Pesos around 100,000 Pesos which before = roughly $100,000 USD became worth around $25,000 never again did he use his countries currency and even told me stories buying and holding Gold, Silver, Euros and USD

spacer.png

 

Edited by DoINeedOne

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Excellent advice.People here generally have no concept of how close the line between law/order and chaos is.The riots in 2011 occurred at a time when we had a lot more police and a significantly larger military.Successive govts of both sides have weakend them.

They are the fall back position.

I'm interested in buying some good water filters for camping.Anyone know any to reccomend?

 

Edited by sancho panza

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I think in the UK we've luckily been insulated from any feeling of strife or disorder.  A vast majority of the world I'd imagine take less for granted, especially economic stability.  We've been coddled basically in cotton wool!?

I read somewhere recently that quite a large percentage of the silicon valley new rich have back up plans and that speaking say of having a holiday home in New Zealand was widely understood as code for bolt hole if TSHTF.  I guess if I had a gazillion bucks I would be hedging regardless of probabilities though.

Countries like say South Africa I found the people generally live with a bit more ken towards mortality (be it living in gated communities or simply the general air that I find of "life being cheap"). 

Zimbabwe on the other hand as we all know became a disaster, at least for a large portion of white people who had a economically stable existence up until late 90s.  Oh and I guess most other people that weren't from the right tribe. 

Regarding gold jewellery over coins I am seriously assuming/ hoping it doesn't get that bad here where we are bartering to acquire food!  Maybe if the West/ globally things really collapse for as time at some later date though?  Anyway I think the Indian culture of hording all manner of jewellery they've got a head start.  Or what about those US preppers who stock up on tiny demotions in neat little packages

Screenshot_20190821-155354.thumb.png.1f84d71099906765ca73c44439f9c273.png

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3 hours ago, Dogtania said:

I think in the UK we've luckily been insulated from any feeling of strife or disorder.  A vast majority of the world I'd imagine take less for granted, especially economic stability.  We've been coddled basically in cotton wool!?

My concern with the UK are the millions and millions of people who have been bribed to stay put in front of daytime TV instead of going out and robbing us muppets who work and pay tax. What will these people who have been infantilised and rendered helpless and incompetent by tax credits and other handouts do when their 'income' drops, even a little bit? @DurhamBorn would no doubt say the govt will print to keep paying them, but when they realise it's not buying enough?

The UK was once a stoic, grin and bear it place. Is that still in the character? I fear I see far too many people taking zero responsibility for themselves, and just blaming others "its the government/immigrants innit". This is dangerous.

I guess for me it's kind of like driving. I'm not concerned about being able to look after myself and mine, but I worry about the other idiots on the road. I think any sane person needs some basic plans to a) not get robbed by central banks and govt (mostly covered on the Credit Deflation thread b) not get robbed by those who will get robbed by central banks and govt c) ensure you have contingency for fluctuations and volatility in services we take for granted (particularly electricity).

I'll be focussing on a) for the next 5-8 years and build toward b) and c)

It's easy to go nuts with this, and people will think you're nuts too, but it can be simple "sleep easy at night" stuff.

There were two occasions in the 07-10 crisis where we were hours from the ATMs being limited or switched off in Ireland. 1) when AIG was teetering after Lehman 2) when the ECB put a gun to the govts head about making bondholders whole (they directly threatened 'no cash in atms on monday' as a matter of piblic record).

I didn't care, and watched it unfold without dread. I had a stash of silver, cash and a months worth of food. My wife thought I was insane as I bought a little extra in the weekly shop, but I slept like a baby, and watched the people walk around oblivious to how close they came to chaos. I read the ferfal blog on Argentina in the lead up to that so I was mentally ready, with a basic contingency plan.

Didn't need it in the end, but my point is very simple contingencies can give great peace of mind.

Not time for that yet this time, but the cash in the atm and digits on my banking app are still just as fragile. 

Reading Jim Rickards "aftermath" at the moment. Great quote "I have yet to meet a hedge fund billionaire without a substantial personal allocation to physical gold". And the rest. No reason we shouldn't do something similar in a smaller proportionate way, IMHO.

Edited by Cattle Prod

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Just over 6 years ago, Cypriot bank depositors found themselves in a pickle

Germany is adamant that the banking system in Cyprus must be shrunk to half its present size and Cyprus’s two largest banks restructured as part of any rescue plan…Senior EU leaders, including Olli Rehn, the commission’s economic chief, and Mr Dijsselbloem had originally expressed reservations about the plan out of fear it would lay waste to the island’s economy, which is heavily reliant on financial services. But officials involved in closed-door discussions said many who were resistant now believe massive capital flight is assured, making the Iceland solution more palatable.

“Pressure mounts on Cyprus”, March 21st 2013

Under the outlines of the deal, depositors with accounts worth less than €100,000 would not be touched. But those above those levels in Laiki Bank, the second largest and most troubled financial institution, would be severely cut, the officials said. The losses on large deposits in Bank of Cyprus, which will survive as a much smaller entity, have yet to be decided, but could be as high as 40 per cent.

“EU ministers approve Cyprus bailout deal” March 24th 2013

Cyprus is to become the first eurozone country ever to apply capital controls – with limits on credit card transactions, daily withdrawals, money transfers abroad and the cashing of cheques – intended to prevent a vast outflow of euros when its banks open on Thursday. Under drastic measures that some analysts say are incompatible with monetary union, depositors would be able to withdraw no more than €300 in cash each day, said people familiar with the move. Transfers of more than €5,000 would require permission from the central bank.

“Cyprus imposes severe capital controls”, March 27th 2013

 

Below is a screen shot i saved that i saw on reddit during the time this was a guy who said he employed something like 10 people and this was his business account - he said he would not stay in Cyprus after this and move his business else where.

wbpomEF.png.bb5a7483a77def96193c73ed1a339493.png

 

Edited by DoINeedOne

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17 minutes ago, Cattle Prod said:

Reading Jim Rickards "aftermath" at the moment. Great quote "I have yet to meet a hedge fund billionaire without a substantial personal allocation to physical gold". And the rest. No reason we shouldn't do something similar in a smaller proportionate way, IMHO.

Just about to start reading that book too

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This is just some info i had saved personally i don't trust pensions the goal posts will always be moved as far as I'm concerned

 

Digital wealth is easier to seize

 

IRELAND 2009: Took Eur4.4bn National Pension Reserve Fund assets to bail out banks.  The Fund was established in 2001 to ensure the Government could pay pensions in 2025-2050

PORTUGAL 2010:  Nationalised pension assets of Portugal Telecom

IRELAND 2010: Took remaining Euro 2.5bn National Pension Reserve Fund assets

FRANCE 2010: Took Euro33bn from its National Reserve Pension Fund that was intended to fund pensions in 2020-2040 but used the money to fund today’s pensions instead

HUNGARY 2010: Nationalised $14bn of individual private pension accounts which had been set up in 1998 to limit state pension liabilities and used the money to reduce state debt

PORTUGAL 2011: Confiscated pension assets of its largest banks which comprised around three quarters of private pension assets

POLAND 2011:  In 2011, Poland reduced the mandatory contributions into its second pillar privately-managed pension funds from 7% of salary to 2.3%, with the balance being paid into the state pension system

UK 2012: Transferred £24bn of Royal Mail pension assets to the Treasury and used the funds to reduce the current budget deficit

POLAND 2013: Nationalised half private pension assets by confiscating bond holdings

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3 hours ago, Dogtania said:

I think in the UK we've luckily been insulated from any feeling of strife or disorder.  A vast majority of the world I'd imagine take less for granted, especially economic stability.  We've been coddled basically in cotton wool!?

I read somewhere recently that quite a large percentage of the silicon valley new rich have back up plans and that speaking say of having a holiday home in New Zealand was widely understood as code for bolt hole if TSHTF.  I guess if I had a gazillion bucks I would be hedging regardless of probabilities though.

Countries like say South Africa I found the people generally live with a bit more ken towards mortality (be it living in gated communities or simply the general air that I find of "life being cheap"). 

Zimbabwe on the other hand as we all know became a disaster, at least for a large portion of white people who had a economically stable existence up until late 90s.  Oh and I guess most other people that weren't from the right tribe. 

Regarding gold jewellery over coins I am seriously assuming/ hoping it doesn't get that bad here where we are bartering to acquire food!  Maybe if the West/ globally things really collapse for as time at some later date though?  Anyway I think the Indian culture of hording all manner of jewellery they've got a head start.  Or what about those US preppers who stock up on tiny demotions in neat little packages

 

I have met a few South Africans who talk about the violence there, one lifted up his top to show where he had been shot when someone car jacked him

As for smaller Gold amounts what about silver coins depending on the current price much less in value

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I like silver coins now, the scrap gold/ jewellery sounds interesting (piqued my interest from earlier snippet on Argentine experience) and I can imagine enjoying building up a pirate chest with my loot.  I'm not really a prepper though but probably would be in another life say with a young family etc.  I'm definitely not that keen on those tiny gold chip things I mentioned earlier though can see the appeal for the US hardened prepper.  If it came to thinking about stuff to barter i would in theory be more inclined towards aquriring a still and learning about distillation or growing Mary Jane.

I'll throw out that a couple of years ago when we had that deludge of snow.  I visited the super market on something like the first or second day and there was almost a palpable air of disorder.  Shelves were emptying quick.  Staff on edge.  And that was one day!  Reminded me of that common saying that we are only days away from complete breakdown in the West if the supermarket goes dry.

 

Thanks for the reminders on pension raiding and the fragility of the banking / government it's easy to forget and prudent to remember....or maybe ignorance is bliss (until it isn't but could be too late then anyway) 

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15 minutes ago, Dogtania said:

I'll throw out that a couple of years ago when we had that deludge of snow.  I visited the super market on something like the first or second day and there was almost a palpable air of disorder.  Shelves were emptying quick.  Staff on edge.  And that was one day!

How positively civilised. In Dublin, they smashed open a Lidl with a JCB and looted it. Not money, but booze and food. One day of snow.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/lidl-in-dublin-looted-and-smashed-on-friday-night-1.3413492

Screenshot_20190821-210328_Chrome.jpg

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I love you guys but really? If you want to survive the zombie apocaypse only two things matter, physical condition and weapons. I know a few Royal Marines from the 90s, and trust me you would not want to get in a fight with those fuckers over a carrot. They would take your land, your fuel and anything else they want.

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2 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

I love you guys but really? If you want to survive the zombie apocaypse only two things matter, physical condition and weapons. I know a few Royal Marines from the 90s, and trust me you would not want to get in a fight with those fuckers over a carrot. They would take your land, your fuel and anything else they want.

Or a zombie proof house 

https://allthatsinteresting.com/zombie-proof-house

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29 minutes ago, Dogtania said:

I like silver coins now, the scrap gold/ jewellery sounds interesting (piqued my interest from earlier snippet on Argentine experience) and I can imagine enjoying building up a pirate chest with my loot.  I'm not really a prepper though but probably would be in another life say with a young family etc.  I'm definitely not that keen on those tiny gold chip things I mentioned earlier though can see the appeal for the US hardened prepper.  If it came to thinking about stuff to barter i would in theory be more inclined towards aquriring a still and learning about distillation or growing Mary Jane.

I'll throw out that a couple of years ago when we had that deludge of snow.  I visited the super market on something like the first or second day and there was almost a palpable air of disorder.  Shelves were emptying quick.  Staff on edge.  And that was one day!  Reminded me of that common saying that we are only days away from complete breakdown in the West if the supermarket goes dry.

 

Thanks for the reminders on pension raiding and the fragility of the banking / government it's easy to forget and prudent to remember....or maybe ignorance is bliss (until it isn't but could be too late then anyway) 

Always have stuff in the pantry like grandma used to have.

Can't think of anything worse than having to fight the local arseholes over the last tin of baked beans in the supermarket on day 3.

Anyway, had a relative asking who buys scrap gold in town and how much they would get, told them where the guys place was and all of a sudden they couldn't be arsed as it was a relatively small ammout.

So I offered them the current XAU to GBP at wt x 0.375 (9ct) x 0.8 (20% dealer charge) and they ripped my hand off.

Bought at £1250/oz ~£40/g (less 20%) and have tucked it in the bottom draw and will forget about it.

Seems a good way to casually aquire metal.

Edited by Chewing Grass

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2 minutes ago, One percent said:

Ah, those are hidden apparently. 

Being seriouse (witch i cant spell), how do you grow veg cheaper than the farmers? Trust me ive tried the allotment and all that, yes i know it tastes better with butter on it innit. but it dont work out, and dont talk to me about livestock either, they would all become pets and share my bed.

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4 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

Being seriouse (witch i cant spell), how do you grow veg cheaper than the farmers? Trust me ive tried the allotment and all that, yes i know it tastes better with butter on it innit. but it dont work out, and dont talk to me about livestock either, they would all become pets and share my bed.

Pets with benefits, tell me about it, one minute you are munching away in a field, the next you are Joneses bed-warmer.

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5 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

Being seriouse (witch i cant spell), how do you grow veg cheaper than the farmers? Trust me ive tried the allotment and all that, yes i know it tastes better with butter on it innit. but it dont work out, and dont talk to me about livestock either, they would all become pets and share my bed.

I’ve never been able to grow veg. I guess if starving I would find a way. Normally grow tomatoes in the summer but the building work has put paid to doing anything in the garden this year. 

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40 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

I love you guys but really? If you want to survive the zombie apocaypse only two things matter, physical condition and weapons. I know a few Royal Marines from the 90s, and trust me you would not want to get in a fight with those fuckers over a carrot. They would take your land, your fuel and anything else they want.

And Royal Marines ;-)

TsXZuFw.gif

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Just now, Cattle Prod said:

Potatoes - one of the few foods that provide complete nutrition and you can grow them in a plastic bin

I’ve tried. In those bag things were ok but didn’t have that potato taste I was after. 

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3 minutes ago, Tdog said:

Put cheddar cheese and Lurpak butter on, thatll fix it.

Ive been all over the world to some right shit 3rd world places, and i am 100% certain there'll be no Mad Max scenario in the UK, those riots were merely business as usual in the UK, just there was a 20 year gap.

What in with the soil to feed them?  Will that really add flavour?  o.O

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