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Economic Survival & Breakdown Of Society


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It all sounds interesting but I just can't imagine committing to anything more than a small allotment, as once you have any larger scale, you either spend full time looking after it or variety will need to be limited and then then not all bases are covered and yet there is excess of the speciality that needs to be sold/given away. 

I have a "friend" who lived in USSR where in late 80s there was only beetroot in grocery shops. However, most rural population had 1,500 sq metres (just over 1/3 acre) land allocated for each house; some city dwellers had smaller 500sqm allotments.

One can grow a lot on that amount of land but the least demanding crops ended up being potatos and fruit trees. And chickens.

 

 

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Bobthebuilder
28 minutes ago, Bear Hug said:

It all sounds interesting but I just can't imagine committing to anything more than a small allotment, as once you have any larger scale, you either spend full time looking after it or variety will need to be limited and then then not all bases are covered and yet there is excess of the speciality that needs to be sold/given away. 

I have a "friend" who lived in USSR where in late 80s there was only beetroot in grocery shops. However, most rural population had 1,500 sq metres (just over 1/3 acre) land allocated for each house; some city dwellers had smaller 500sqm allotments.

One can grow a lot on that amount of land but the least demanding crops ended up being potatos and fruit trees. And chickens.

 

 

Spot on, and thats the problem with growing your own. A allotment is hard work and failed crops are heart breaking, as Monty Don says "self sufficiencey will only result in you losing all your hair and teeth".

I know someone who used to raise pigs, he said "going out and shooting another fox and burying dead piglets on Xmas day gets a bit bothersome".

Edit to add, nothing wrong with potatoes, fruit trees and chickens mind.

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Bobthebuilder
9 hours ago, stokiescum said:

Your going to need a crossbow and some sharp knifes for protein if your going full mad max you just need to hit the sheep that will slow it down then finish it off sheep are heavy so you either lop it to bits in the field or take a friend 200 tins of food would last one person a long time btw but not if anyone else knows about them

Try that with a cow and it will kill you.

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Yellow_Reduced_Sticker
GREAT Thread!
 
This is another reason why I'm moving to the SW countryside, if SHTF...I'd hate to be where I'm currently at...an urban overpopulated RatMaze west-london sh*t hole!:Old:
 
In the spirit of this thread, i'll mention that this year I've been collecting glass storage jars with the big rubber seal from the local boot-sale...this is because i want to start fermenting foods...anyone here into fermenting foods?
 
Anyway, when the boot sales ends the sellers dump a lot of what they have left, and for some odd reason :o i ALWAYS go and check that trash area, AND bugger me on yesterdays trip i go through a few boxes and come across 3 storage jars! And FREE i must have about 18 now!xD
 
Getting back to spirit of this thread, i want to share some PDF books with YOU guys, FREE at NO cost:D
 
Wild Fermentation: The Flavor, Nutrition, and Craft of Live-Culture Foods

image.png.29302eb7e0aa58c6cbb8ada9e5862857.png

 

The Essential Book of Fermentation: Great Taste and Good Health with Probiotic Foods

https://www.mediafire.com/file/1bgff0z5dzjst0u/

spacer.png

 

Year-Round Gardening: Growing Vegetables and Herbs, Inside or Outside, in Every Season

https://www.mediafire.com/file/j519kp4y0ajvbqe/

spacer.png

....ENJOY!:D

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Your best bets when things turn really nasty are to be able to defend your street/estate, know enough people to barricade the roads and defend your homes. Being mates with the local boxers, soldiers, rugby players, drug dealers etc would be handy. And probably, sadly, the most important thing, be of the same ethnicity as the local police and military. Society breaks down along ethnoreligious lines, always has, always will. AFAIK there's one Asian family on my street, I'm sure they'd be fine, I certainly wouldn't stand for some idiot targeting them, but in the inner cities race is going to be a factor. The London riots were put to a stop by the police, who had been merrily watching the place burn, when white people organised themselves in Eltham and decided it was time for the race war. That took three days.

Oh yeah, and get yourself emotionally prepared to eat human flesh. All this talk of potatoes and tinned fish is fine for a power cut but if there's blood running down the streets nobody's going to have time for that. Kill, eat, repeat. 

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5 minutes ago, Calcutta said:

Your best bets when things turn really nasty are to be able to defend your street/estate, know enough people to barricade the roads and defend your homes. Being mates with the local boxers, soldiers, rugby players, drug dealers etc would be handy. And probably, sadly, the most important thing, be of the same ethnicity as the local police and military. Society breaks down along ethnoreligious lines, always has, always will. AFAIK there's one Asian family on my street, I'm sure they'd be fine, I certainly wouldn't stand for some idiot targeting them, but in the inner cities race is going to be a factor. The London riots were put to a stop by the police, who had been merrily watching the place burn, when white people organised themselves in Eltham and decided it was time for the race war. That took three days.

Oh yeah, and get yourself emotionally prepared to eat human flesh. All this talk of potatoes and tinned fish is fine for a power cut but if there's blood running down the streets nobody's going to have time for that. Kill, eat, repeat. 

You’ve been reading those zombie books again. o.O

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Bobthebuilder
4 minutes ago, Calcutta said:

Your best bets when things turn really nasty are to be able to defend your street/estate, know enough people to barricade the roads and defend your homes. Being mates with the local boxers, soldiers, rugby players, drug dealers etc would be handy. And probably, sadly, the most important thing, be of the same ethnicity as the local police and military. Society breaks down along ethnoreligious lines, always has, always will. AFAIK there's one Asian family on my street, I'm sure they'd be fine, I certainly wouldn't stand for some idiot targeting them, but in the inner cities race is going to be a factor. The London riots were put to a stop by the police, who had been merrily watching the place burn, when white people organised themselves in Eltham and decided it was time for the race war. That took three days.

Oh yeah, and get yourself emotionally prepared to eat human flesh. All this talk of potatoes and tinned fish is fine for a power cut but if there's blood running down the streets nobody's going to have time for that. Kill, eat, repeat. 

I presume your talking about the 80s Brixton riots?

4 minutes ago, One percent said:

You’ve been reading those zombie books again. o.O

Ha, zombie cook books. Im sure theres money in that.

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5 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

I presume your talking about the 80s Brixton riots?

Ha, zombie cook books. Im sure theres money in that.

I kind of got into all sorts of end days books, from zombies, through natural disasters to EMP events. What interested me was how people cope. 

Those who lose their heads never survive. 

Oh and you need guns, lots of guns. And stockpiles of food and water. 

We are fucked within about three to five days according to my extensive research. o.O

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Yellow_Reduced_Sticker
31 minutes ago, Calcutta said:

Your best bets when things turn really nasty are to be able to defend your street/estate, know enough people to barricade the roads and defend your homes. Being mates with the local boxers, soldiers, rugby players, drug dealers etc would be handy. And probably, sadly, the most important thing, be of the same ethnicity as the local police and military. Society breaks down along ethnoreligious lines, always has, always will. AFAIK there's one Asian family on my street, I'm sure they'd be fine, I certainly wouldn't stand for some idiot targeting them, but in the inner cities race is going to be a factor. The London riots were put to a stop by the police, who had been merrily watching the place burn, when white people organised themselves in Eltham and decided it was time for the race war. That took three days.

Oh yeah, and get yourself emotionally prepared to eat human flesh. All this talk of potatoes and tinned fish is fine for a power cut but if there's blood running down the streets nobody's going to have time for that. Kill, eat, repeat. 

Well i expect i'm fecked then ? as my street is ALL Asian bar myself & 2 other white families...

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14 minutes ago, Yellow_Reduced_Sticker said:

Well i expect i'm fecked then ? as my street is ALL Asian bar myself & 2 other white families...

Don't worry, a lot of the Asians are vegetarian, although the others are  partial to a bit of Halal...no stun gun for you then I am afraid! :-) :-) :-)

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On 25/08/2019 at 22:20, Bobthebuilder said:

As ive already said up thread, its a piece of piss, put any potatoe in the ground and it will grow.That guy is looking for likes, potatoes have been doing just fine for a million years without him

Very true. Even potato peelings will sometimes sprout in the compost heap.

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23 hours ago, sancho panza said:

So if the shtf then we're looking at growing enough spuds for the winter.....does anything else keep well like spuds?

 

edit to add my grandad used to keep rabbits and we used to eat them all the time as kids.till he gave us a pet one lol.....

Some onions keep very well, I never have to buy onions as last years crop lasts until the following years crop. But onions are not really a staple high energy (carb) food like spuds.

For most other things you are then into preserving, canning, jams, freezing etc. I could not be bothered with that and if I was a prepper I would stock up on tinned stuff from the supermarket. Lidls do some very nice tinned salmon in several differnt sauces, I would have plently of that to hand.

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10 hours ago, Yellow_Reduced_Sticker said:

Well i expect i'm fecked then ? as my street is ALL Asian bar myself & 2 other white families...

They might look after you, I'd imagine threats come from outsiders looking for easy pickings.

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Yellow_Reduced_Sticker
29 minutes ago, Calcutta said:

They might look after you, I'd imagine threats come from outsiders looking for easy pickings.

That may be the case if they were decent hard working tax paying Asia's (we have a few Indian families like that in this street)...unfortunately the MAJORITY are Asian benefit scrounging trash! The ONLY work they do is Taxi cash in hand init... is it any wonder they can afford to have numerous inbreed dipsh*t sprogs! :PissedOff:

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14 hours ago, Yellow_Reduced_Sticker said:

anyone here into fermenting foods?

Yes YRS, been making kimchi and water kefir for some years now. Addictive stuff. 

The lady of the house likes to eat kimchi but isn’t that happy when it’s first fermenting out of the fridge, which has to be done in the house over the winter 😳

Thanks for the links will have a read. I’ve got the Sandor Katz book which looks similar. Also loads of good info on the internet will try and post some links when I get home. 

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Used to really want to get into making kumbucha as it's a super rip off to buy and next to nothing to make.  I genuinely like the stuff (fermented cold tea drink very low alcohol).  What put me off was the thought it would start rotting my teeth.

Anyway I think yougurt or kefir and kimchi is a lot more nutritious.  May still not be good for teeth but at least few more proper calories.

Just random thought about going through period of worst case scenario - I read a book about siege of Stalingrad and remember clearly that conversely it was the people who kept active and useful to the community (whilst starving ever closer to death) who survived rather than the people who tried to do add little as possible who actually perished first.  Possibly the people who hunted other people for their meat ultimately lost out on their conscious as well unless they were psycho.  The whole idea was the survivors seemed to have in common there work ethic and hope. 

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sancho panza
On 26/08/2019 at 17:08, Ma2 said:

Great thread, thanks for starting 👍🏻

Hope to make a positive contribution as time allows but I’ll kick off with this site, it’s one of the best resources I’ve come across on how best to approach prepping. Also the author is original from Europe so it’s not so US focused like most others I’ve come across.  

The title says it all, it really is prepping for less crazy people and so much is just good practical advice for getting through life’s ups and downs 😉

http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/

“...the purpose of this guide is to combat the mindset of learned helplessness by promoting simple, level-headed, personal preparedness techniques that are easy to implement, don't cost much, and will probably help you cope with whatever life throws your way.”

That's a really good site with soem good advice that stops well short of the more extreme stuff some are referencing

On 26/08/2019 at 21:21, Yellow_Reduced_Sticker said:
GREAT Thread!
 
This is another reason why I'm moving to the SW countryside, if SHTF...I'd hate to be where I'm currently at...an urban overpopulated RatMaze west-london sh*t hole!:Old:
 
In the spirit of this thread, i'll mention that this year I've been collecting glass storage jars with the big rubber seal from the local boot-sale...this is because i want to start fermenting foods...anyone here into fermenting foods?
 
Anyway, when the boot sales ends the sellers dump a lot of what they have left, and for some odd reason :o i ALWAYS go and check that trash area, AND bugger me on yesterdays trip i go through a few boxes and come across 3 storage jars! And FREE i must have about 18 now!xD
 
Getting back to spirit of this thread, i want to share some PDF books with YOU guys, FREE at NO cost:D
 
Wild Fermentation: The Flavor, Nutrition, and Craft of Live-Culture Foods

image.png.29302eb7e0aa58c6cbb8ada9e5862857.png

 

The Essential Book of Fermentation: Great Taste and Good Health with Probiotic Foods

https://www.mediafire.com/file/1bgff0z5dzjst0u/

spacer.png

 

Year-Round Gardening: Growing Vegetables and Herbs, Inside or Outside, in Every Season

https://www.mediafire.com/file/j519kp4y0ajvbqe/

spacer.png

....ENJOY!:D

Cheers for that YRS.

This site is based ona  similar theme and I'll have a look later

On 26/08/2019 at 21:31, Calcutta said:

Your best bets when things turn really nasty are to be able to defend your street/estate, know enough people to barricade the roads and defend your homes. Being mates with the local boxers, soldiers, rugby players, drug dealers etc would be handy. And probably, sadly, the most important thing, be of the same ethnicity as the local police and military. Society breaks down along ethnoreligious lines, always has, always will. AFAIK there's one Asian family on my street, I'm sure they'd be fine, I certainly wouldn't stand for some idiot targeting them, but in the inner cities race is going to be a factor. The London riots were put to a stop by the police, who had been merrily watching the place burn, when white people organised themselves in Eltham and decided it was time for the race war. That took three days.

Oh yeah, and get yourself emotionally prepared to eat human flesh. All this talk of potatoes and tinned fish is fine for a power cut but if there's blood running down the streets nobody's going to have time for that. Kill, eat, repeat. 

Agreed as above although  it's worth pointing out that it could easily cut the other way.

 

 

@Bobthebuilder do you make your own compost.After watching a video the other day,I've started keeping my used coffee beans....:D

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Bobthebuilder
4 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

do you make your own compost.After watching a video the other day,I've started keeping my used coffee beans....:D

Hi SP,

I used to when i had a larger garden, only have a small patio garden these days and the smell from compost would upset my neigbhours.

Again lots of myths about composting. You can compost anything really, animal, vegetable, egg shells, used tea, coffee even newspapers but best to avoid some stuff because of rats, meat, fish etc. If you have space its really worth doing, once you have a pile cover it, start a new one and after a year spread it on the garden in early spring.

Collect up all the fallen leaves in autum let them rot a bit and spread them on your veg patch, the worms will eat these and you need worms for good soil. Somewhere i saw a great piece of film of worms dragging leaves down into the soil, amazing really.

But, if you are serious about veg growing you will need to add manure in the winter, your compost bin will never be enough to grow new veg every year.

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sancho panza
1 minute ago, Bobthebuilder said:

Hi SP,

I used to when i had a larger garden, only have a small patio garden these days and the smell from compost would upset my neigbhours.

Again lots of myths about composting. You can compost anything really, animal, vegetable, egg shells, used tea, coffee even newspapers but best to avoid some stuff because of rats, meat, fish etc. If you have space its really worth doing, once you have a pile cover it, start a new one and after a year spread it on the garden in early spring.

Collect up all the fallen leaves in autum let them rot a bit and spread them on your veg patch, the worms will eat these and you need worms for good soil. Somewhere i saw a great piece of film of worms dragging leaves down into the soil, amazing really.

But, if you are serious about veg growing you will need to add manure in the winter, your compost bin will never be enough to grow new veg every year.

I've got an apple tree in the garden here,kicks off loads of apples that I currently shovel off.

This hosue hasn''t got space but when/if we ever buy/move to anther place I'm looking to get some land.At the mo,I'm keen to sjut try and get on top of some of the container growing and get the kids involved.Mrs P was raised in rural South Africa  on not much money and she shares my concerns that the kids need to know this stuff growing up,as they often grew food for the house.

I'm jsut planning at the mo but likely will try and get ready for next summer.

 

All of a sudden realsing why people had cellars back in the day.....

 

Ref storing things like apples and potatoes,how do you keep the rats away? or is it not much of an issue.

6 minutes ago, Bobthebuilder said:

Hi SP,

I used to when i had a larger garden, only have a small patio garden these days and the smell from compost would upset my neigbhours.

Again lots of myths about composting. You can compost anything really, animal, vegetable, egg shells, used tea, coffee even newspapers but best to avoid some stuff because of rats, meat, fish etc. If you have space its really worth doing, once you have a pile cover it, start a new one and after a year spread it on the garden in early spring.

Collect up all the fallen leaves in autum let them rot a bit and spread them on your veg patch, the worms will eat these and you need worms for good soil. Somewhere i saw a great piece of film of worms dragging leaves down into the soil, amazing really.

But, if you are serious about veg growing you will need to add manure in the winter, your compost bin will never be enough to grow new veg every year.

do you regularly need to dose the land with fetiliser/compsot then? forgive my ignorance

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Bobthebuilder
30 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

Ref storing things like apples and potatoes,how do you keep the rats away? or is it not much of an issue.

Not much of an issue but you can always get a cat or a good rat dog like a jack russell. Chickens will also eat any mice they can get hold of.

 

30 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

do you regularly need to dose the land with fetiliser/compsot then? forgive my ignorance

If you have a veg patch then compost and manure is essential every year, if you are growing in pots then feed once a week with plant food like miracle grow.

On a related note, this is why small holders raise pigs. Put them on last years veg patch, feed them all the kitchen and garden waste and they will dig all the ground up, eat all the roots, weeds and fertilize it for you for free (no need for composting or manure), plus you get sausages and chops in november. Keep a goat for milk, chickens and John Seymour would be proud.

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On 25/08/2019 at 09:32, Bobthebuilder said:

A good book for this sort of thing is The River Cottage Cookbook by Huge Furry Whippingtool, he wrote it before he became a big TV personallity, also Self suffiency for Realists and Dreamers by John Seymour (as Harley has on his book shelf).

Was just visiting the girlfriends dad this weekend and saw this one on his bookshelf a couple of minutes after reading your post. He’s a resourceful guy.

 

0320B073-5ACE-4812-BE1B-0FE6A6F8ACAC.jpeg

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Bobthebuilder
2 hours ago, Lavalas said:

Was just visiting the girlfriends dad this weekend and saw this one on his bookshelf a couple of minutes after reading your post. He’s a resourceful guy.

 

0320B073-5ACE-4812-BE1B-0FE6A6F8ACAC.jpeg

Did you have a read?

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Yellow_Reduced_Sticker
On 27/08/2019 at 10:47, Ma2 said:

Yes YRS, been making kimchi and water kefir for some years now. Addictive stuff. 

The lady of the house likes to eat kimchi but isn’t that happy when it’s first fermenting out of the fridge, which has to be done in the house over the winter 😳

Thanks for the links will have a read. I’ve got the Sandor Katz book which looks similar. Also loads of good info on the internet will try and post some links when I get home

LOVE kimchi as spent many years in the FAR EAST...looking forward to making some this Autumn, yes do post the good info links, cheers!

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