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Frank Hovis

Can't afford a house, can't afford a car

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Fucking state of it, couldn't be bothered to search any further, Science and Technology Select Committee my arse.

 

Norman Lamb -- Bachelor of law

Vicky Ford - Maths and Economics

Bill grant - 31 years in fire brigade

Sam Gyimah -- PPE

Darren Jones - Human Bioscience

Liz Jendall - History

 

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There's a fundamental problem with cars.

It isn't the cars.  It is the driving.  If you want to improve the CO2 problem, you stop people using the things, not owning the things.

[I'd say everyone should be able to have a car -- personal mobility is great, from moving stuff to the tip to visiting relatives.  The problem is people keep on using them too much.  To blame the cars and not the usage is a real wood / trees issue]

[the other problem is too many people using their cars too much -- but the 'too many people' is a deeper problem]

Edited by dgul

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16 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

We all know many people who can't afford to buy a house and I've noted that I know a small number of lower paid people who can't afford to run a car.

I have said that anyone who thinks that we will switch all cars to EVs whilst retaining existing levels of car ownership is highly deluded.

Well this is the first time that I have seen the government explicitly come out and confirm that this is the aim.  They will now price people out of cars.

This isn't by the way a random "think tank"; this is the Science and Technology Select Committee which consists of MPs:

Member Party
Norman Lamb (Chair) Liberal Democrat
Vicky Ford Conservative
Bill Grant Conservative
Mr Sam Gyimah Conservative
Darren Jones Labour
Liz Kendall Labour
Stephen Metcalfe Conservative
Carol Monaghan Scottish National Party
Damien Moore Conservative
Graham Stringer Labour
Martin Whitfield Labour

 

And they have now stated very clearly:

“In the long-term, widespread personal vehicle ownership does not appear to be compatible with significant decarbonisation.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49425402

So there you have it.

Your children will not be able to buy a house.

Your grandchildren will not be able to buy a car.

Rich people only.

Petrol cars.

 

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3 minutes ago, dgul said:

There's a fundamental problem with cars.

It isn't the cars.  It is the driving.  If you want to improve the CO2 problem, you stop people using the things, not owning the things.

[I'd say everyone should be able to have a car -- personal mobility is great, from moving stuff to the tip to visiting relatives.  The problem is people keep on using them too much.  To blame the cars and not the usage is a real wood / trees issue]

Tilt the tax table to benefit home working rather than turning up office 5 days a week would reduce travel very considerably. The tech exists to enable many employers to do . just needs an incentive.

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4 minutes ago, dgul said:

There's a fundamental problem with cars.

It isn't the cars.  It is the driving.  If you want to improve the CO2 problem, you stop people using the things, not owning the things.

[I'd say everyone should be able to have a car -- personal mobility is great, from moving stuff to the tip to visiting relatives.  The problem is people keep on using them too much.  To blame the cars and not the usage is a real wood / trees issue]

[the other problem is too many people using their cars too much -- but the 'too many people' is a deeper problem]

Its urban car usage.

~20 years you drive to a park ~2miles outside of town and walk or bus in.

 

 

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1 minute ago, dgul said:

There's a fundamental problem with cars.

It isn't the cars.  It is the driving.  If you want to improve the CO2 problem, you stop people using the things, not owning the things.

[I'd say everyone should be able to have a car -- personal mobility is great, from moving stuff to the tip to visiting relatives.  The problem is people keep on using them too much.  To blame the cars and not the usage is a real wood / trees issue]

A very good point sir.

Diesel is currently about £6 a gallon so my 100 mile commute costs me about £12 a day at 50mpg (or rather slightly less because the mpg is higher but I'm having easy numbers thank you).

I commute typically four days a week so that's £48.  Which is fine, happy with that.

If however diesel cost £60 a gallon I would be paying £120 a day or £480 a week.  I wouldn't be happy with that.

I would either stay in a hotel three nights a week to take it down to one commute - £120 + 3 x £80 = £360 vs £480.  Which is stil a lot.

Or I would move house, or job, or get a stealth camper and live in that during the week or buy an EV and keep commuting.

Either way it would massively cut my use of diesel.

 

And that is the way I expect them to take it - big fuel price increases to price people off the roads.

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3 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Its urban car usage.

~20 years you drive to a park ~2miles outside of town and walk or bus in.

 

 

2 mile trip take a few minutes, car miles / car time tiny, ok will clog up at times but not a major issue.

Average commute is 54 minutes, that is the biggie.

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It'll never happen. The idea that fully electric vehicles will be anything close to what I.C.E are currently capable of by 2040 is laughable. Progress means (at least) equal to and (should be) better than what came before. Until EV can do 700-1000 miles per charge, batteries have a lifespan of 15-20 years & made considerable lighter and you can fully charge your vehicle in around 5-10 minutes - we haven't progressed, we've made things worse.

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2 minutes ago, TheNoSnowMan said:

It'll never happen. The idea that fully electric vehicles will be anything close to what I.C.E are currently capable of by 2040 is laughable. Progress means (at least) equal to and (should be) better than what came before. Until EV can do 700-1000 miles per charge, batteries have a lifespan of 15-20 years & made considerable lighter and you can fully charge your vehicle in around 5-10 minutes - we haven't progressed, we've made things worse.

EV's absolutely don't need to do that sort of range. Fast charging is getting there, 15 mins plus for a decent top up charge is getting common on new vehicles, 250 mile actual range is great for large proportion of users and the percentage of the population that regularly do 500+ miles plus in a day is tiny.

 

Battery life is improving and already exceeding expected lifespan for many of the early vehicles.

Edited by onlyme

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1 minute ago, TheNoSnowMan said:

It'll never happen. The idea that fully electric vehicles will be anything close to what I.C.E are currently capable of by 2040 is laughable. Progress means (at least) equal to and (should be) better than what came before. Until EV can do 700-1000 miles per charge, batteries have a lifespan of 15-20 years & made considerable lighter and you can fully charge your vehicle in around 5-10 minutes - we haven't progressed, we've made things worse.

I think we're all saying that one for one replacement of ICE with EV will never happen; though that is many people's assumptions of their future.

 

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2 minutes ago, onlyme said:

2 mile trip take a few minutes, car miles / car time tiny, ok will clog up at times but not a major issue.

Average commute is 54 minutes, that is the biggie.

Its not the commute time, its the commute distance.

Most people stop at 45minutes.

In a lot of places Ive lived the distance travelled in 45min has halved.

 

3 minutes ago, TheNoSnowMan said:

It'll never happen. The idea that fully electric vehicles will be anything close to what I.C.E are currently capable of by 2040 is laughable. Progress means (at least) equal to and (should be) better than what came before. Until EV can do 700-1000 miles per charge, batteries have a lifespan of 15-20 years & made considerable lighter and you can fully charge your vehicle in around 5-10 minutes - we haven't progressed, we've made things worse.

Most car journeys are well under 5miles.

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3 minutes ago, onlyme said:

EV's absolutely don't need to do that sort of range. Fast charging is getting there, 15 mins plus for a decent top up charge is getting common on new vehicles, 250 mile actual range is great for large proportion of users and the percentage of the population that regularly do 500+ miles plus in a day is tiny.

I'm talking about in comparison to what we have now. Diesels can easily do that many miles on one tank. Filling up takes 5-10 minutes. And your car can last you 20 years easily if maintained properly. You won't get that with EV. Therefore, it's not progress.

Edited by TheNoSnowMan

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1 minute ago, onlyme said:

EV's absolutely don't need to do that sort of range. Fast charging is getting there, 15 mins plus for a decent top up charge is getting common on new vehicles, 250 mile actual range is great for large proportion of users and the percentage of the population that regularly do 500+ miles plus in a day is tiny.

There are over 32 million cars on the road in the UK.

If those all switched to EV how on earth would the charging be powered?  Two small power stations going off at the same time the Friday before last took down great swathes of the network.

There is sod all spare capacity and certainly no way we would be able to add what would be needed to charge 32 million cars, mostly at night so forget solar, within twenty years.

There is nly one to achieve their aims: price people off the roads.

So that is what will happen.

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3 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Its not the commute time, its the commute distance.

Most people stop at 45minutes.

In a lot of places Ive lived the distance travelled in 45min has halved.

 

But commute time does equate to engine running time - apart from stop/start tech and stationary traffic. Get more working a day ro two at home reduce traffic and congestion falls, commute time drops, double win.

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2 minutes ago, TheNoSnowMan said:

I'm talking about in comparison to what we have now. Diesels can easily do that many miles on one tank. Filling up takes 5-10 minutes. And your car can last you 20 years easily if maintained properly. You won't get that with EV. Therefore, it's not progress.

Diesels at 5-10 years can start to rack up some expensive bills, I reckon EV's (without the level of maintenance and oil changes) will easily last longer, there some much less to wear out fundamentally. Drivetrain of Tesla bult for million miles.

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3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

There are over 32 million cars on the road in the UK.

If those all switched to EV how on earth would the charging be powered?  Two small power stations going off at the same time the Friday before last took down great swathes of the network.

There is sod all spare capacity and certainly no way we would be able to add what would be needed to charge 32 million cars, mostly at night so forget solar, within twenty years.

There is nly one to achieve their aims: price people off the roads.

So that is what will happen.

32 million swapping over in that timespan - agree, unlikely and unnecessary target.

 

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32 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

We all know many people who can't afford to buy a house and I've noted that I know a small number of lower paid people who can't afford to run a car.

I have said that anyone who thinks that we will switch all cars to EVs whilst retaining existing levels of car ownership is highly deluded.

Well this is the first time that I have seen the government explicitly come out and confirm that this is the aim.  They will now price people out of cars.

This isn't by the way a random "think tank"; this is the Science and Technology Select Committee which consists of MPs:

Member Party
Norman Lamb (Chair) Liberal Democrat
Vicky Ford Conservative
Bill Grant Conservative
Mr Sam Gyimah Conservative
Darren Jones Labour
Liz Kendall Labour
Stephen Metcalfe Conservative
Carol Monaghan Scottish National Party
Damien Moore Conservative
Graham Stringer Labour
Martin Whitfield Labour

 

And they have now stated very clearly:

“In the long-term, widespread personal vehicle ownership does not appear to be compatible with significant decarbonisation.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49425402

So there you have it.

Your children will not be able to buy a house.

Your grandchildren will not be able to buy a car.

Rich people only.

The country will collapse if they did that with the public transport and cost we have now 

Cloud cuckoo land thinking by that group 

On the house front i don`t know if it`s just a trend or a substitute for what they can not afford but i have never seen so many youngsters in camper vans as i have in the last few years 

I went down the local beach last Friday evening there must have been about fifteen parked up for the night and this is not a touristy type beach,apparently this is common know or so i was informed 

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10 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

There are over 32 million cars on the road in the UK.

If those all switched to EV how on earth would the charging be powered?  Two small power stations going off at the same time the Friday before last took down great swathes of the network.

There is sod all spare capacity and certainly no way we would be able to add what would be needed to charge 32 million cars, mostly at night so forget solar, within twenty years.

There is nly one to achieve their aims: price people off the roads.

So that is what will happen.

Well Aberthaw is allegedly going next year thee Germans are pulling out due to brexit ,it is a power station that was always due to shut next year for the last twenty years ,you say lack of capacity but this power station is not even running full time just at peak times there is another doing the same  both coal fired 

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17 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

There are over 32 million cars on the road in the UK.

If those all switched to EV how on earth would the charging be powered?  Two small power stations going off at the same time the Friday before last took down great swathes of the network.

There is sod all spare capacity and certainly no way we would be able to add what would be needed to charge 32 million cars, mostly at night so forget solar, within twenty years.

There is nly one to achieve their aims: price people off the roads.

So that is what will happen.

One other point don't this is an EV/ICE issue, the inference from their comments is resort to NO car ownership, as obviously EV's still need power generation and a lot of that will be fossil based.

They are talking about switching to walking / cycling / public transport

Edited by onlyme

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11 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

There are over 32 million cars on the road in the UK.

If those all switched to EV how on earth would the charging be powered?  Two small power stations going off at the same time the Friday before last took down great swathes of the network.

There is sod all spare capacity and certainly no way we would be able to add what would be needed to charge 32 million cars, mostly at night so forget solar, within twenty years.

There is nly one to achieve their aims: price people off the roads.

So that is what will happen.

This^

Anyone got numbers for current versus futuregenerating capacity requirements without having to charge EV's, let alone adding EV's to the equation?

If not I'll go digging (have some time on my hands).

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5 minutes ago, MrLibertyRedux said:

This^

Anyone got numbers for current versus futuregenerating capacity requirements without having to charge EV's, let alone adding EV's to the equation?

If not I'll go digging (have some time on my hands).

This isn't about switch to EV's.

It is about having no car at all, so EV / ICE is irrelevant and marginal to the point.

 

................

People will have to get out of their cars if the UK is to meet its climate change targets, MPs say.

The Science and Technology Select Committee says technology alone cannot solve the problem of greenhouse gas emissions from transport.

It says the government cannot achieve sufficient emissions cuts by swapping existing vehicles for cleaner versions. 

 

Edited by onlyme

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25 minutes ago, TheNoSnowMan said:

It'll never happen. The idea that fully electric vehicles will be anything close to what I.C.E are currently capable of by 2040 is laughable. Progress means (at least) equal to and (should be) better than what came before. Until EV can do 700-1000 miles per charge, batteries have a lifespan of 15-20 years & made considerable lighter and you can fully charge your vehicle in around 5-10 minutes - we haven't progressed, we've made things worse.

Apart from the mileage ,which very few cars achieve per tank ,the rest is within a few years away and if one claim is proven correct it will mach and in some cases  exceed  your figures 

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