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JoeDavola

Is this an exceptionally healthy 47 year old?

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Good to get the opinions of folk who are in his age range and older, this is Dr Greger, the biggest vegan diet pushing doctors out there, who wrote the book 'How Not to Die' which claims you can drastically reduce the chance of getting all the big killers in the western world by going plant based...I'm eating more high protein yoghurt, wild salmon and organic chicken breast as I see a pattern with long term vegans where they obviously can't maintain what I'd call a healthy muscle mass even though they claim vegan protein is 'just as good':

 

 

And in a similar vein, Dr John McDougall, who has been pushing veganism for decades, aged 72:

 

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Just now, The XYY Man said:

He wrote a book. And he has to sell it.

That is all you need to know...

I guess what I'm getting at is that you can say 'the science says plant protein is just as good...', but that becomes meangingless when you see directly conflicting information with your own eyes from those adhereing to what the science says.

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10 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

I guess what I'm getting at is that you can say 'the science says plant protein is just as good...', but that becomes meangingless when you see directly conflicting information with your own eyes from those adhereing to what the science says.

And what you are saying is correct.

If we agree that science has replaced religion, why should it not also be full of shysters just like the church was...?

People are people, wherever you find them...

 

XYY

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47 years old :$

I look better and I eat two fry ups per week, at least two serious bevvy sessions per week and like a few takeaways per week. 

Then again I think Djokovic is also vegan and he looks decent. Full time athlete may help of course. 

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2 minutes ago, This Time said:

I'm really glad you've seen the light - long term vegans always look like cancer patients.

They often do, don't they.

As I say, how can a man like that stand up and tell people 'plant protein builds muscle just as good as animal protein'. And how can John McDougall, at age 72 looking 92, continue to lecure people with a straight face.

Basically the extreme dieting thing is a scam, arguably an eating disorder which I admit I've fallen for. If I have a chicken breast every day, that's 2g saturated fat per day. Even if you agree with the science that saturated fat raises cholesterol, that 2g is a drop in the ocean for all the protein I'd get. And if I'm not eating trans fats or vegetable oils I'm still eating far less shite than the average person.

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Ah ...

But what he look like if he was not vegan?

If you 'want to live forever ....'

Work on your pulling, so you can get lots of women knocked up with your genes.

All other solutions are pretty limited and/or boring.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, NeoGeo said:

Here's keto guru Jimmy Moore on a mostly all butter diet.

Oh totally - Jimmy Moore's the biggest joke out there - literally and figurativley. I don't get how he's managed to build a career for over a decade telling people how to eat (he's not a medical professional of any kind).

Genetics does play a role too of course.

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3 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Oh totally - Jimmy Moore's the biggest joke out there - literally and figurativley. I don't get how he's managed to build a career for over a decade telling people how to eat (he's not a medical professional of any kind).

Genetics does play a role too of course.

Chiropractors, homeopaths, even large number of NHS professions ....

 

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1 hour ago, JoeDavola said:

Good to get the opinions of folk who are in his age range and older, this is Dr Greger, the biggest vegan diet pushing doctors out there, who wrote the book 'How Not to Die' which claims you can drastically reduce the chance of getting all the big killers in the western world by going plant based...I'm eating more high protein yoghurt, wild salmon and organic chicken breast as I see a pattern with long term vegans where they obviously can't maintain what I'd call a healthy muscle mass even though they claim vegan protein is 'just as good':

 

 

And in a similar vein, Dr John McDougall, who has been pushing veganism for decades, aged 72:

 

You have no idea what they look like on the inside. 

Diet is like all the other big issues of our age: too big, too complex, too multifaceted for any one person to claim complete expertise. Add genetics and epigenetics on top and you have something that's really not worth worrying about.

All you need to do is balance calories in and calories out, eat plenty of fresh food of any kind, then hope you win the cancer/heart/Alzheimer's lottery.

If you do you'll be guaranteed to be shitting yourself in a miserable nursing home well into your 90s.

 

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11 minutes ago, NeoGeo said:

I think you can find bad examples in all camps.

 

Here's keto guru Jimmy Moore on a mostly all butter diet.

 

More-Moore.jpg

Yeah, there's definitely some low carbers that don't look great either. I'm starting to think keto/low carb might not work long term for most people.

I'm thinking paleo might be the way forward - Mark Sisson certainly looks great.

Decent amount of protein from meat and seafood, no plant oil that isn't naturally solid at STP (except maybe olive oil), no legumes, no grains (except maybe rice), no seeds or nuts that haven't been soaked, nothing from a packet if your granny wouldn't recognize the ingredients, no HFCS, no refined sugar, no dairy. Stick to the above at least 95% of the time and decide yourself what macros work for you.

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Vegans have a totally different frame of reference, so when they tell you that plant protein is "just as good" or that 70g of protein a day is enough to build muscle, they're talking about the sort of muscles they need to lift another 250g bag of lentils into a saucepan of boiling water.

You want proper muscles, eat meat.

And if you really need to ask if vegans are healthy, walk into any health food shop and look at the person behind the counter.

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17 minutes ago, This Time said:

Yeah, there's definitely some low carbers that don't look great either. I'm starting to think keto/low carb might not work long term for most people.

I'm thinking paleo might be the way forward - Mark Sisson certainly looks great.

Decent amount of protein from meat and seafood, no plant oil that isn't naturally solid at STP (except maybe olive oil), no legumes, no grains (except maybe rice), no seeds or nuts that haven't been soaked, nothing from a packet if your granny wouldn't recognize the ingredients, no HFCS, no refined sugar, no dairy. Stick to the above at least 95% of the time and decide yourself what macros work for you.

Let's get down to brass tacks:

Paleo might be the way forward for what?

What is it exactly that you're trying to achieve? 

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22 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Oh totally - Jimmy Moore's the biggest joke out there - literally and figurativley. I don't get how he's managed to build a career for over a decade telling people how to eat (he's not a medical professional of any kind).

Genetics does play a role too of course.

Well, Jimmy boasted that his bloodwork were better than most of his slim audience which wouldn't surprise me as there are people that would keel over before reaching that size.  He is fortunately one of the lucky one (genetics) similar to those on "My 600lbs Life" that need one side of the wall bulldozed before being winched out.

Far from being insulin--resistant, they are insulin-sensitive so much so that insulin is able to shunter excess fat to the subcutaneous area. Off course, it's only a matter of time before it spills over to the vital organs and then that's where the shit hit the fan.

If you see a obese, (healthy) althete, chances are that most of the fat is stored subcutaneously just underneath the skin. The ratio of where the bodyfat is stored is genetics I'm afraid. East asians for example developed diabetes, heart disease at lower BMI than the official one used for western populations.

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I'm not a vegan but I more or less might as well be, a pint of milk for my coffee lasts me over a week, eat a bit of cheese, quite like eggs, but that's it. No meat for last 40 odd years. I look just like anyone else my sort of age. I think the mental vegan thing is a myth caused by people only notice the strident ones. 

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58 minutes ago, Roger_Mellie said:

You have no idea what they look like on the inside. 

Diet is like all the other big issues of our age: too big, too complex, too multifaceted for any one person to claim complete expertise. Add genetics and epigenetics on top and you have something that's really not worth worrying about.

All you need to do is balance calories in and calories out, eat plenty of fresh food of any kind, then hope you win the cancer/heart/Alzheimer's lottery.

If you do you'll be guaranteed to be shitting yourself in a miserable nursing home well into your 90s.

 

What might work for one person also might not for another. It's a combination of the sensible advice plus personal trial and error to get yourself the best diet for you. 

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29 minutes ago, WorkingPoor said:

You gotta eat dead animals 

end of.

We are supposed to eat dead animals.

It just depends on the individual. Things happened during my childhood which made me not gotta eat dead animals. YMMV. I am not strident, no beard, no sandals. 

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