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Credit deflation and the reflation cycle to come (part 2)


spunko

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42 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

Sorry but you are giving out mixed messages here. One minute you are pleased DB might be posting more, then the next asking him to write a book, which will mean less time in the forum. I think the general consensus would be more posts, we'll bin the time consuming book idea?

If you think a load of forum posts are on the same level as a well-edited book then I have nothing I can say. o.O

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I`ve been in debt many times & penniless a few more. I have always managed to navigate my way through life and do it without using anyone. It took me a while to sort myself out after meeting a few freeloaders over the years though. The thing is I have been able to spend time in many other countries even when short of funds. I met many different people of many different nationalities from whom I learned so much. Like who to trust and who to avoid.

I have a few grand in the bank and a few sovs for emergencies plus I own my house. I am not what I consider educated in the way of finance or do I have the patience or long term visions that many appear to have on this forum. One thing I have going for me is independence something that many never realise in their lifetime.

One thing I do observe from some posters here is a real fear (it is almost palpable) of losing accumulated wealth that has been built up over some  time. I have never felt that and consider it something toxic to the soul. I read about people on here with (to me) fortunes, yet they are living in some fear. it seems paradoxical that free thinkers can feel that way.

 

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Democorruptcy
2 hours ago, Loki said:

If you think a load of forum posts are on the same level as a well-edited book then I have nothing I can say. o.O

I definitely think that. He timed his PM bets beautifully this year, you wouldn't have got that in a book. 

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3 hours ago, janch said:

I had a succession of crap jobs but I always made sure I had enough in savings to live for a couple of months so I wouldn't ever be in the position of being forced to do a job I hated.   This was whilst raising three children and mostly fairly part-time work (before the days of tax credits).  I couldn't wait to be able to give up work entirely and be my own boss so to speak. I now live on the state pension and through living frugally I find I can even save some of it to add to my meagre investments.  For all those wanting to FIRE I would say go ahead if you can live cheaply and have modest needs with no debt.  It's surprising what you can live on if you put your mind to it and you don't need a big pot of money to do it.

You can have time or money but not both unless one of those investments turns into a pot of gold. I'd rather have the time any day then be on the rat-race treadmill.

Likely il FIRE again xmas eve janch,but im not 100% sure i wont work again maybe.I might return to the place im at now in 18 months,or i might do something part time.I actually dont need much to be happy.Im very lucky in that i love things that are free,or cheap.I love walking,wildlife etc.Im a great cook and enjoy cooking.Fixing things im pretty good apart from big jobs.I find i need about £850 a month for a nice life.I can get double that in dividend income and i nearly have full state pension now .

 

1 hour ago, Gin said:

I`ve been in debt many times & penniless a few more. I have always managed to navigate my way through life and do it without using anyone. It took me a while to sort myself out after meeting a few freeloaders over the years though. The thing is I have been able to spend time in many other countries even when short of funds. I met many different people of many different nationalities from whom I learned so much. Like who to trust and who to avoid.

I have a few grand in the bank and a few sovs for emergencies plus I own my house. I am not what I consider educated in the way of finance or do I have the patience or long term visions that many appear to have on this forum. One thing I have going for me is independence something that many never realise in their lifetime.

One thing I do observe from some posters here is a real fear (it is almost palpable) of losing accumulated wealth that has been built up over some  time. I have never felt that and consider it something toxic to the soul. I read about people on here with (to me) fortunes, yet they are living in some fear. it seems paradoxical that free thinkers can feel that way.

 

For me i have no fear of losing capital,i actually invest knowing losing capital its almost certain and that for me to get full holdings in companies then i need to be down quite a lot.I do fear losing buying power though (or too much buying power).Iv just lost my job (as i fully intended too and knew i would when i went back),and it will matter zero to me in financial terms,likely the only person out of the 100 who can say that.I ran a lot of capital down between the ages of 29 and 37 as i retired for 8 years and basically lived like Hugh Grant in About a Boy.However at nearly 50 its important that i dont do that again.Of course it helps that investing is a passion for me.I fear having to work at 60,no fear if im sitting on losses among investments.I actually thing learning how to live happily yet frugal is as important as investing.Learning both even should help people have a much more stable life.

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3 hours ago, Gin said:

I have a few grand in the bank and a few sovs for emergencies plus I own my house. I am not what I consider educated in the way of finance or do I have the patience or long term visions that many appear to have on this forum. One thing I have going for me is independence something that many never realise in their lifetime

The point I was making above, you have good `soft` financial skills.

3 hours ago, Gin said:

One thing I do observe from some posters here is a real fear (it is almost palpable) of losing accumulated wealth that has been built up over some  time. I have never felt that and consider it something toxic to the soul. I read about people on here with (to me) fortunes, yet they are living in some fear. it seems paradoxical that free thinkers can feel that way

Perhaps these people started at the bottom as well and don't want to rely on the state to `save them`...and/or perhaps they appreciate that the state benefits `money tree` of the last 30-40 years is about to come tumbling down under the weight of an unsustainable load?

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2 hours ago, MrXxxx said:

The point I was making above, you have good `soft` financial skills.

Perhaps these people started at the bottom as well and don't want to rely on the state to `save them`...and/or perhaps they appreciate that the state benefits `money tree` of the last 30-40 years is about to come tumbling down under the weight of an unsustainable load?

Perhaps, or maybe its just a fear of living in the moment. Any of us could lose everything in the blink of an eye, either through war, natural disasters or suchlike. Some of the posts I see though I almost feel the fear, of losing it all, which seems a tad irrational . It is full on, and the need to save or build capital is all consuming.

Don`t go on a holiday, don`t buy a new car, turn the heating down. It`s almost a religion. Like there are wolves snapping at their heels and the only way to deal with that is to save yet more.

I have been there. I lived alone for some years and frugality became my religion. It seems satisfying too, at the time.But something didnt quite feel right & I couldnt put my finger on it.

Looking back now though it seems it was fear driving my actions, not enjoyment of life. Life is to be lived and money gives us some freedom to live that life. I`m sure we can think of things that we would like to do that could give us an experience, that remains in our pysche or memory till we die. It`s all needs balance..a bit of yin & yang. I get that, but just how far do we go, that enables us to say " up yours ! to the system and I`m not falling for it..I`m putting yet another tenner under the mattress or towards my gold stash"

Saving & scrimping for the future is very worthy but surely there comes  a point where we have to throw some caution to the wind & stop patting ourselves on the back....or what is the point of living .

 
 
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26 minutes ago, Gin said:

Perhaps, or maybe its just a fear of living in the moment. Any of us could lose everything in the blink of an eye, either through war, natural disasters or suchlike. Some of the posts I see though I almost feel the fear, of losing it all, which seems a tad irrational . It is full on, and the need to save or build capital is all consuming.

Don`t go on a holiday, don`t buy a new car, turn the heating down. It`s almost a religion. Like there are wolves snapping at their heels and the only way to deal with that is to save yet more.

I have been there. I lived alone for some years and frugality became my religion. It seems satisfying too, at the time.But something didnt quite feel right & I couldnt put my finger on it.

Looking back now though it seems it was fear driving my actions, not enjoyment of life. Life is to be lived and money gives us some freedom to live that life. I`m sure we can think of things that we would like to do that could give us an experience, that remains in our pysche or memory till we die. It`s all needs balance..a bit of yin & yang. I get that, but just how far do we go, that enables us to say " up yours ! to the system and I`m not falling for it..I`m putting yet another tenner under the mattress or towards my gold stash"

Saving & scrimping for the future is very worthy but surely there comes  a point where we have to throw some caution to the wind & stop patting ourselves on the back....or what is the point of living .

 
 

I agree,but it depends on the person.My car is 15 years old.Im a diesel fitter.I have no interest in cars apart from how they work.My car now costs me £8 a week to keep on the road (iv already depreciated it to zero).I would get zero pleasure from a new car.Holidays iv partied like crazy when younger.However i hate them now.I hate airports,i even hate packing the case.I get no pleasure from two weeks abroad.I do get lots of pleasure from 3 days in Whitby,getting drunk,listening to a band in a pub and eating fish and chips.I built up a lot of capital.I also spent a lot,i spent 7 years travelling around the country dating dozens of really smart women not working from 29.I have friends who married their 2nd girlfriend,have new cars,go abroad twice a year,have mortgages,good jobs but small savings.That life wouldnt be for me,in fact it would make me ill just the thought of it.

One of the big reasons im not getting another job after xmas is so i can spend lots of time with my 80 year old dad.Hes on his own now since my mum died.The fact i (and he)invested means i can spend lots of quality time with him.It also means my daughters can leave their children with us,and keep working.They are paying off their mortgages and will be mortgage free on nice houses by 30.Capital discipline means you can also help your children.

My no1 priority isnt money.Its freedom.Freedom to do as i choose,when i choose,with who i choose.Freedom to protect my family,provide for them all,shield them as much as possible.I will never ever complain that i wish id done this,wish id done that.I also hate hearing people who did then complain they are skint when things go wrong.I also had cancer when i was in late 20s.If i hadnt had enough capital to pack in work,eat well,sleep well,relax body and mind id of been dead.You might be dead tomorrow,but getting ill is more likely,and being skint and ill is a terrible mix.

Each to their own every time though.Personal choice and personal freedom.

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8 hours ago, Gin said:

Perhaps, or maybe its just a fear of living in the moment. Any of us could lose everything in the blink of an eye, either through war, natural disasters or suchlike. Some of the posts I see though I almost feel the fear, of losing it all, which seems a tad irrational . It is full on, and the need to save or build capital is all consuming.

Don`t go on a holiday, don`t buy a new car, turn the heating down. It`s almost a religion. Like there are wolves snapping at their heels and the only way to deal with that is to save yet more.

I have been there. I lived alone for some years and frugality became my religion. It seems satisfying too, at the time.But something didnt quite feel right & I couldnt put my finger on it.

Looking back now though it seems it was fear driving my actions, not enjoyment of life. Life is to be lived and money gives us some freedom to live that life. I`m sure we can think of things that we would like to do that could give us an experience, that remains in our pysche or memory till we die. It`s all needs balance..a bit of yin & yang. I get that, but just how far do we go, that enables us to say " up yours ! to the system and I`m not falling for it..I`m putting yet another tenner under the mattress or towards my gold stash"

Saving & scrimping for the future is very worthy but surely there comes  a point where we have to throw some caution to the wind & stop patting ourselves on the back....or what is the point of living .

 
 

Can't disagree with anything you have written above, as I have a similar attitude to life, although I saw aspects in myself of the person you describe above; must be a bit schizo :-) BUT maybe others have greater responsibilities that we don't know about Ie. Young kids, elderly relatives to care for etc?...agree that money shouldn't be coveted at the cost of everything else though.

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Democorruptcy
9 hours ago, Gin said:

Perhaps, or maybe its just a fear of living in the moment. Any of us could lose everything in the blink of an eye, either through war, natural disasters or suchlike. Some of the posts I see though I almost feel the fear, of losing it all, which seems a tad irrational . It is full on, and the need to save or build capital is all consuming.

Don`t go on a holiday, don`t buy a new car, turn the heating down. It`s almost a religion. Like there are wolves snapping at their heels and the only way to deal with that is to save yet more.

I have been there. I lived alone for some years and frugality became my religion. It seems satisfying too, at the time.But something didnt quite feel right & I couldnt put my finger on it.

Looking back now though it seems it was fear driving my actions, not enjoyment of life. Life is to be lived and money gives us some freedom to live that life. I`m sure we can think of things that we would like to do that could give us an experience, that remains in our pysche or memory till we die. It`s all needs balance..a bit of yin & yang. I get that, but just how far do we go, that enables us to say " up yours ! to the system and I`m not falling for it..I`m putting yet another tenner under the mattress or towards my gold stash"

Saving & scrimping for the future is very worthy but surely there comes  a point where we have to throw some caution to the wind & stop patting ourselves on the back....or what is the point of living .

 
 

To the true gambler, money is never an end in itself, it's simply a tool, as a language is to thought.

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1 hour ago, MrXxxx said:

Can't disagree with anything you have written above, as I have a similar attitude to life, although I saw aspects in myself of the person you describe above; must be a bit schizo :-) BUT maybe others have greater responsibilities that we don't know about Ie. Young kids, elderly relatives to care for etc?...agree that money shouldn't be coveted at the cost of everything else though.

I have family. My wife is Filipina & I have a daughter. It is interesting listening and watching how my wife deals with money. She has known extremely tough times as her families house was torn down in a hurricane when she was a child. She saves for the future really well, but also lives for today and spends money at times, when I wouldn`t even consider it. I have looked at life through her eyes at times and realised I was taking the saving part to the extreme.

9 hours ago, DurhamBorn said:

Each to their own every time though.Personal choice and personal freedom.

I agree with those words of course. I used to think that money would be an answer to most problems but it`s not money per se it is our attitude to life. So I guess I am talking to myself when I say scrimping or whatever one might call it, say yearning for our own security, can go too far.

It is a balanced attitude to living that maybe we should look for. I was just looking at return flights to OZ and if you don`t mind a 30 hour journey then the cost is £520...not bad at all. So scrimping can come in the form of good choices when spending to. Thailand for £300 return, brilliant. Life is for living. We get one shot at it and I`m determined not to spend most of my time & energy looking at ways of not spending..I might be dead tomorrow. Yes it is all a balance.

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19 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

To the true gambler, money is never an end in itself, it's simply a tool, as a language is to thought.

I never see my investments as money.I see them as units of time.I also see my life as units of time.If i live to 75 (hopefully longer but i use that number) then i have 27 years of units left.I usually work out several scenarios and road maps.I tend to make the worst road map with highest spending/lowest returns run out of cash by 75 apart from £30kish of physical PMs.The best to have the same capital at 75 as today.Iv always found having road maps as crucial.Last October i went back to work with a road map on the PMs.The intention was to go over my rules on allocation by saving 100% of the wages in PM miners,then get laid off when the debt deflation got going around a year later.Thats exactly what i did.I saved 100%,i almost doubled it,im leaving as the debt deflation starts to bite.

In affect i saved £75k by returning to work for a year (i nearly doubled the salary,tax efficient,hardly any income tax).I am and will now deploy that alongside the rest of my portfolio and i expect il get a yearly income of roughly £4k a year from it for the rest of my life.My bills excluding car and food on the house are £3600 a year,so a years work will/should pay my bills for life.Of course i already had all that,in itself thats what that road map achieved.

The guy i stood next to had no plan.He simply came to work and expected he would keep doing so.He saved nothing (apart from £3k in the pension).He had 1 holiday for 2 weeks,has a semi expensive car and that eats a lot of money on repairs (£360 on an exhaust last week).He is unlikely to earn anywhere near the salary again unless he gets back there in the future.He is worried,upset and his mental health is now suffering.He has zero plan.

As you say,money is a tool and should be seen as such,a tool to achieve or enjoy units of time as you see fit.

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I agree a plan is needed or at least a way of living that works, so that there are no cliff edges ahead to drop off. I think time is way to valuable to spend too much of, leaning over spread sheets though. Way too many units used up.O.o Thats only my personal opinion, but I still witness fear of living, even on the TV in News items and topical programs. Blimey, no wonder there is so many psychological problems with young and old.

It`s a fine line between being obsessed about security or living in a more relaxed way, that still gives us a good life, however long or short it might be. Yin and yang

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Talking Monkey
2 hours ago, DurhamBorn said:

I never see my investments as money.I see them as units of time.I also see my life as units of time.If i live to 75 (hopefully longer but i use that number) then i have 27 years of units left.I usually work out several scenarios and road maps.I tend to make the worst road map with highest spending/lowest returns run out of cash by 75 apart from £30kish of physical PMs.The best to have the same capital at 75 as today.Iv always found having road maps as crucial.Last October i went back to work with a road map on the PMs.The intention was to go over my rules on allocation by saving 100% of the wages in PM miners,then get laid off when the debt deflation got going around a year later.Thats exactly what i did.I saved 100%,i almost doubled it,im leaving as the debt deflation starts to bite.

In affect i saved £75k by returning to work for a year (i nearly doubled the salary,tax efficient,hardly any income tax).I am and will now deploy that alongside the rest of my portfolio and i expect il get a yearly income of roughly £4k a year from it for the rest of my life.My bills excluding car and food on the house are £3600 a year,so a years work will/should pay my bills for life.Of course i already had all that,in itself thats what that road map achieved.

The guy i stood next to had no plan.He simply came to work and expected he would keep doing so.He saved nothing (apart from £3k in the pension).He had 1 holiday for 2 weeks,has a semi expensive car and that eats a lot of money on repairs (£360 on an exhaust last week).He is unlikely to earn anywhere near the salary again unless he gets back there in the future.He is worried,upset and his mental health is now suffering.He has zero plan.

As you say,money is a tool and should be seen as such,a tool to achieve or enjoy units of time as you see fit.

Its mad that folks just don't put anything into pensions, I know plenty of people in their 40s who have virtually nothing in their pensions despite a decent pay packet and expect to make it all up in the next 20 years. Its that assumption they will continue earning their current salary till 65 without a thought to potential downside scenarios

On the roadmaps DB in what you describe above do you map out several scenarios (Best, mid, worst) case scenarios on a piece of paper or in Excel, is that how one goes about doing it, inputting the variables. I'm trying to conceptualise how an individual builds their roadmap as I guess some of the input variables are specific to the individual based on their personal circumstances

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reformed nice guy
16 hours ago, DurhamBorn said:

My no1 priority isnt money.Its freedom.Freedom to do as i choose,when i choose,with who i choose.Freedom to protect my family,provide for them all,shield them as much as possible.I will never ever complain that i wish id done this,wish id done that.

I agree with you there DB. Inspired by this thread and with some long term planning, I have been preparing to wind down well before official retirement age. 

One of the things that has helped me out immensely, that you have hinted at, is that for the past 18 months or so I have been keeping a detailed note of my spending. This has allowed me to plan more accurately rather than relying on googling "how much is average monthly spend retirement uk 2019"

I have also messed around with spreadsheets doing basic drawdown scenarios such as high inflation + low returns, years of equity losses + div cuts etc. That way I have an idea of the worst case scenario.

 

6 hours ago, Gin said:

It is a balanced attitude to living that maybe we should look for. I was just looking at return flights to OZ and if you don`t mind a 30 hour journey then the cost is £520...not bad at all. So scrimping can come in the form of good choices when spending to. Thailand for £300 return, brilliant. Life is for living.

With clever financial planning then these flights become even better value. A few years ago I got cheap flights to Oz and spent 7 weeks there. I prefer to do a big, long trip like that every few years rather than a week here and there. Time spent in an airport is hell to me.

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10 hours ago, Talking Monkey said:

Its mad that folks just don't put anything into pensions, I know plenty of people in their 40s who have virtually nothing in their pensions despite a decent pay packet and expect to make it all up in the next 20 years. Its that assumption they will continue earning their current salary till 65 without a thought to potential downside scenarios

On the roadmaps DB in what you describe above do you map out several scenarios (Best, mid, worst) case scenarios on a piece of paper or in Excel, is that how one goes about doing it, inputting the variables. I'm trying to conceptualise how an individual builds their roadmap as I guess some of the input variables are specific to the individual based on their personal circumstances

I tend to do it on paper.I keep things rough.I know how much i need going forward.At the minute i need £850 a month to live as i want,so i base things on that as the minimum.I can make that in dividends easily.I then have SIPPs that i can go into draw down in 6.5 years.Roughly that would take me up to £1600 a month together.I then have full state pension at 67 or 68 so up to £2300 a month.That last level (and the middle one as well) are way more than i need.However i run my road maps on that i spend all income and base the figures on how much i undershoot,hit,or overshoot inflation.It also means that is i want i can increase spending now by running down ISAs slightly (say i wanted to increase income to £1000 a month) and still see a rising income at 55 and 67/68.My worst road map to run out of money at 75 needs really big falls in capital value,or a huge increase in spending.

Im very good on the frugal living side as i love cooking etc and iv got my house now very efficient and nice.One thing im going to do more of though is learn extra DIY skills.Im pretty good anyway,but would like to do bigger jobs myself.

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17 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Thats  Boing spillover.

Non boing related companies are doing great.

 

They arent,they are in recession Spy.All my lead indicators are saying so.They pick up things well ahead.Industrial will be heading south very very soon.It would need massive printing and a quickly falling dollar to turn things.

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It's interesting that DB has talked about governments injecting money directly into the veins of the economy once deflation takes hold and that then creating the inflation part of the cycle after deflation. Of course we could go straight to inflation if either of the Conservatives/Labour actually spend like they say they are going to:PissedOff:

One of the trusts I have inside my ISA is the Personal Assets Trust (LON: PNL) which is a very defensive fund run by Sebastian Lyon. Interestingly in this interview from 2015 he was asked by Moneyweek how he saw deflation turning to inflation. Have a listen from about 20:35mins....

https://youtu.be/sG4svAppYzw?t=1233

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2 hours ago, NogintheNog said:

It's interesting that DB has talked about governments injecting money directly into the veins of the economy once deflation takes hold and that then creating the inflation part of the cycle after deflation. Of course we could go straight to inflation if either of the Conservatives/Labour actually spend like they say they are going to:PissedOff:

One of the trusts I have inside my ISA is the Personal Assets Trust (LON: PNL) which is a very defensive fund run by Sebastian Lyon. Interestingly in this interview from 2015 he was asked by Moneyweek how he saw deflation turning to inflation. Have a listen from about 20:35mins....

https://youtu.be/sG4svAppYzw?t=1233

Iv never seen that so very interesting.Im pretty convinced this will be the route as are my friend and others he worked with at Fidelity.The bond markets simply arent prepared for it,nor are the stockmarkets.People simply havent lived through a reflation/inflation cycle who are now in charge of investing money.Its a doubled edge sword though for companies im interested in as they tend to have big debts as well so their interest costs will rise.However i expect the increase to free cash flow should be around 4x bigger than the increase in interest payments (even though they will double and more).The key is they should be able to pay off more principal as it comes due and roll less over.In the west the printing mostly went into welfare spending and most of that went into services and imports from Chinese factories.The money flowing through the financial system went into bonds and some shares and of course housing in the UK.

We are still in the deflation,the liquidity isnt growing as fast as the debt destruction and im expecting demand drag to pull down lots of areas soon.Im going to be spending a lot of time after xmas on tracking these measures and try to provide a decent road map on things.Most cycles now would be the time to buy oil if its late cycle,the problem is i think those models maybe wrong and we are in fact past late cycle entering end cycle.Iv ladders in place in most areas i want,but the energy sector needs more work,as does the insurance sector.That wont be bought until well into any big market move though,as some will likely go under.

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On 05/12/2019 at 23:04, Sideysid said:

It’s entirely expected I’m afraid. The key thing about this thread which makes it what it is (after surviving from HPC) is that people from all manner of fields and walks of life, have done their own research and draw similar conclusions to where it’s all heading.

You tell the truth of it all to you’re average co-worker without sounding like a nut job... You can’t blame them either, as they’ve been bombarded from all angles by friends/families and the MSM. You talk about contrarian investing and a diversified portfolio and they’ll glaze over. 

 If there’s one true saying in life, it’s that you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. By all means give people the breadcrumbs and let them find out for themselves and be grateful. Better than preaching to them and being an overbearing ball ache (as some people can be) as people automatically shut off.

I agree Sideysid, its entirely expected that good advise usually goes unheeded. Regarding your quotation - personally I prefer the Ayn Rand one (she herself was characterised as being a rabid right-winger; I don't consider myself as right-wing, but as current events come increasingly into focus I think she makes more and more sense), she was both vilified and ridiculed starting in the 1980's (when liberal globalism really took off, so I expect no coincidence in timing), anyway she says -

'You can ignore reality, but you cant ignore the effects of reality'.

I feel it chimes very neatly with the sort of socio-political madness that's been inflicted on the West by our political 'leadership', the social and economic effects of which are slowly beginning to bite the majority of low paid workers. Who would have thought that policies such as uncontrolled-unskilled-mass immigration would backfire?!

To be clear I don't at all relish what I think's ahead, but if the economic consequences play out as most here, including myself think they will, then the type of government required to implement the radical policy solutions (post 2028) will not be acceptable ('morally'?) to large sections of the population. Tragically, I don't think the 48/52 divide is going away any time soon.        

 

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Democorruptcy
On 07/12/2019 at 11:31, Talking Monkey said:

Its mad that folks just don't put anything into pensions, I know plenty of people in their 40s who have virtually nothing in their pensions despite a decent pay packet and expect to make it all up in the next 20 years. Its that assumption they will continue earning their current salary till 65 without a thought to potential downside scenarios

Is it really that mad... ? 

The FTSE top figure has gone nowhere for decades, while governbankment policy has pushed house prices up and increased the pension age. If they leveraged up on property, might their money have done better than in pensions?

If people are high earners with a decent employer contribution then pensions make sense. Otherwise is it worth locking money up for god's know how long, in a vehicle whose annual increment could be below the inflation rate, instead of putting it in self managed and easier accessible ISA?

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On 06/12/2019 at 23:33, DurhamBorn said:

One of the big reasons im not getting another job after xmas is so i can spend lots of time with my 80 year old dad.

I would give a lot now just to have 5 more minutes with my parents.

On 06/12/2019 at 23:33, DurhamBorn said:

I would get zero pleasure from a new car.

I get more pleasure from maximising the return on my current cheap car.

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