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Frank Hovis

GDP per capita

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This was prompted by @reformed nice guy's post on the Germany thread but is alos something that we've discussed before.

It was covered in a fact checking exercise by More or Less (one of the few decent programmes on R4) following several luvvie pronouncements (one of which was Emma Thompson, how surprising) about Britain being the seventh richest nation in the world so why can't we give all immigrants gold shoes or something similar.

 

On straight GDP terms the UK is the eighth largest economy.  China, the US and India are easily the biggest and we slot in after Brazil and ahead of France.  Though this triggers to my mind a "so what" response.  If we conceded on Brexit and just collapsed into a EU superstate then "we" would have an economy bigger than the US.  Anybody can grow their GDP - just add people.  It doesn't make anything better for the people living in that country; it makes it worse. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

 

When you look however at GDP per capita, a much better measure of how wealthy individuals are within a country though without bringing into account distribution, the picture is very different indeed.

The UK is down at a pathetic 26th.  This is more the reality for this so-called rich economy at $46k per head.  Even apparently wealthy Japan is on $44k per head; lots of poor farmers presumably.

 

Though look at the top of the list and taking out oil rich countries and tax havens then who do you have topping it?

Singapore - $100k

Ireland - $79k - not enriched yet, though Varadka is actively trying to encourage mass immigration

Norway - $74k - not enriched

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

 

The simple conclusion from this - mass immigration makes a country poorer.

 

I looked at Ireland for a comparison to the prison officer salary as a country that has yet to recieve the full hammer blow of mass immigration and resulting labour surplus.

This is what mass immigration makes the average person in this country: a lot bloody poorer.

 

 

Quote

 

Average Prison Officer Salary in United Kingdom

£23,343
Avg. SalaryShow Hourly Rate
£2,035
Bonus

Average Prison Officer Salary in Ireland

€41,216
Avg. SalaryShow Hourly Rate
€13,226
Bonus

https://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Job=Prison_Officer/Salary

https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Prison_Officer/Salary

 

 

 

 

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I've wondered about the whole GDP per capita thing quite a bit. At the extremes it's clearly meaningful - Switzerland rich, Liberia shit-hole - but, inside the top 30 or so I'm not so sure. I've lived in the UK, France, Finland, HK, US and Canada and I would be very hard pressed to say that up close and personal any of those were richer or poorer than any other in the general case. 

By the way, the Ireland figure is meaningless because it includes all the EU turnover of a bunch of tech companies most of which isn't taxed.

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7 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

I've wondered about the whole GDP per capita thing quite a bit. At the extremes it's clearly meaningful - Switzerland rich, Liberia shit-hole - but, inside the top 30 or so I'm not so sure. I've lived in the UK, France, Finland, HK, US and Canada and I would be very hard pressed to say that up close and personal any of those were richer or poorer than any other in the general case. 

By the way, the Ireland figure is meaningless because it includes all the EU turnover of a bunch of tech companies most of which isn't taxed.

I didn't know that but you can't argue with that stark difference in the prison officer's salary.

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39 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

 

When you look however at GDP per capita, a much better measure of how wealthy individuals are within a country though without bringing into account distribution, the picture is very different indeed.

The UK is down at a pathetic 26th.  This is more the reality for this so-called rich economy at $46k per head.  Even apparently wealthy Japan is on $44k per head; lots of poor farmers presumably.

 

 

The simple conclusion from this - mass immigration makes a country poorer.

 

I looked at Ireland for a comparison to the prison officer salary as a country that has yet to recieve the full hammer blow of mass immigration and resulting labour surplus.

This is what mass immigration makes the average person in this country: a lot bloody poorer.

 

 

 

 

 

Now fold in those unfunded pension for public sector providing all those 'free' services.

Then put in the cost of a UK state pension.

 

 

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Just now, Frank Hovis said:

I didn't know that but you can't argue with that stark difference in the prison officer's salary.

True, although I'm sure there are plenty of examples of pay differentials being the other way around if you go looking. The Irish GDP growth chart is interesting:

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_kd_zg&idim=country:IRL:ISL:NOR&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_kd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:IRL:ISL:NOR&ifdim=region&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false

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31 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

The simple conclusion from this - mass immigration makes a country poorer.

Indeed - just add people to grow gdp but to grow gdp you also have to find a way to give them money so print, borrow, tax credits, make work and allocate benefits etc all of which devalues money, the value of real work along with the real standard of living and quality of life for the average person. 

UK politicians aren't really concerned with the people's real standard of living (except to try to convince people they're rich when it comes to voting) but in the corridors of power they are concerned with boosting the population because power and representation is often distributed depending on the size of a nation or region and population is one measure that they use to gauge size.

In effect politicians boost population so that they can strut around trying to look important.

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5 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

I'd say that was a very comparable and representative job.  It  comes with a requirement to be able to deal with people and handle difficult situations but doesn't require particular quclifications or courses of study.

I didn't seek it out for the purposes of this thread but on the prison officer thread because I was astounded by how low the pay was and so looked up what the pay was in Ireland that has not had the mass immigration.

8 minutes ago, twocents said:

In effect politicians boost population so that they can strut around trying to look important.

This sadly is also my impression.

They gauge their success by their reception at state visits and international conferences; and if the price of that is upping the state pension age then they're happy to pay it.

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1 hour ago, Frank Hovis said:

I didn't know that but you can't argue with that stark difference in the prison officer's salary.

Try it with a careworkers wages in rural Ira land and the minimum wage here I feel that could be a fairer comparison 

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6 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

Try it with a careworkers wages in rural Ira land and the minimum wage here I feel that could be a fairer comparison 

UK £8.07 per hour

Ireland E10.95 per hour @ 1.11 = £9.86; 22% more

https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Caregiver/Hourly_Rate

https://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Job=Caregiver/Hourly_Rate

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12 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Thanks i know house prices got slaughtered in the sticks in Ireland you could get a 4 bed detached at one point for 80k

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