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One percent

Ruling the waves once again

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As per title, it appears that the government has agreed to walk away from the fishing quota agreement.  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40471466

however, the article is either incredibly poorly written or the whole move is disingenuous; the largest threat to British fishing is the Spanish.  This is the pre- EU agreement, so I'm convinced that this is about obfuscation than anything else.    

Here is detail on the eu fishing policy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Fisheries_Policy

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Conveniently, politicians like to gloss over, when going for political spin, that UNCLOS (The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea) trumps everything. (And BBC journalism doesn't delve that deeply.)

Basically, if a nation has fished waters historically, or the local nation is not utilising its full quota, other nations can fish in territorial waters, including within the 12 mile zone. So Belgium, France, Germany, Ireland and the Netherlands can continue to exploit fish in parts of our waters that they have had previous access to under Article 10 of the existing EU fisheries convention that came into force in 1964.

This article addresses some specific points:

http://www.sff.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Opinion-for-SFF-2016.pdf

(Bearing in mind that fish don't belong to anybody or follow territorial boundaries, which is why fisheries are such a mess.)

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27 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

Conveniently, politicians like to gloss over, when going for political spin, that UNCLOS (The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea) trumps everything. (And BBC journalism doesn't delve that deeply.)

Basically, if a nation has fished waters historically, or the local nation is not utilising its full quota, other nations can fish in territorial waters, including within the 12 mile zone. So Belgium, France, Germany, Ireland and the Netherlands can continue to exploit fish in parts of our waters that they have had previous access to under Article 10 of the existing EU fisheries convention that came into force in 1964.

This article addresses some specific points:

http://www.sff.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Opinion-for-SFF-2016.pdf

(Bearing in mind that fish don't belong to anybody or follow territorial boundaries, which is why fisheries are such a mess.)

Ta very much. I knew someone on here would have further information. 

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33 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

Conveniently, politicians like to gloss over, when going for political spin, that UNCLOS (The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea) trumps everything. (And BBC journalism doesn't delve that deeply.)

Basically, if a nation has fished waters historically, or the local nation is not utilising its full quota, other nations can fish in territorial waters, including within the 12 mile zone. So Belgium, France, Germany, Ireland and the Netherlands can continue to exploit fish in parts of our waters that they have had previous access to under Article 10 of the existing EU fisheries convention that came into force in 1964.

This article addresses some specific points:

http://www.sff.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Opinion-for-SFF-2016.pdf

(Bearing in mind that fish don't belong to anybody or follow territorial boundaries, which is why fisheries are such a mess.)

ALL YOUR FISH ARE BELONG TO US...!!!

 

XYY

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8 minutes ago, The XYY Man said:

ALL YOUR FISH ARE BELONG TO US...!!!

 

XYY

That is a common problem in fisheries as fish move around, and so a fisherman somewhere will think they are abundant, while stocks may be in decline overall. Climate change is making them move around even more.

Unfortunately, fishing is very unlike farming, as there is no investment in the production side. It is 100% natural harvesting. As such fish should command a much higher price, on a par with wild game. (There is also no investment in aquaculture production, as its inputs just come from the harvesting of other wild fish.)

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2 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

That is a common problem in fisheries as fish move around, and so a fisherman somewhere will think they are abundant, while stocks may be in decline overall. Climate change is making them move around even more.

Unfortunately, fishing is very unlike farming, as there is no investment in the production side. It is 100% natural harvesting. As such fish should command a much higher price, on a par with wild game. (There is also no investment in aquaculture production, as its inputs just come from the harvesting of other wild fish.)

Have enjoyed your posts on the subject.

Fish used to be cheap and plentiful when I was a kid - or even free if your uncle Brian drove the delivery van from Hartlepool fish quay...! ;)

We ate it at least twice a week - and also enjoyed plenty of crabs, mussells, cockles, winkles and whelks.

I still do to this day. Haddock for me tea last night.

Don't know if the actual fishermen are making much money today - but the friggin' supermarkets are certainly charging a price on a par with wild game for the stuff. I paid £3.50 for a tiny pot of dressed crab yesterday in ASDA. Just the meat - no claws or legs to suck the insides out of...!

Sadly, local wet-fish shops are all but extinct around here now. I live within eight miles of two fishing towns - Hartlepool and Seaham - and the shopping areas that once boasted plenty of choice and healthy competition now all contain nail-bars and charity shops.

I know of one still open in Hartlepool, and Durham Market has a good stall. Seaham lost its last wet-fish shop a few years ago. A brave soul opened one in the village of Horden near Peterlee in 2015 - but that also closed about six months ago. The sea is less than a mile from that shop.

Fucking supermarkets...

 

XYY

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2 minutes ago, The XYY Man said:

Have enjoyed your posts on the subject.

Fish used to be cheap and plentiful when I was a kid - or even free if your uncle Brian drove the delivery van from Hartlepool fish quay...! ;)

We ate it at least twice a week - and also enjoyed plenty of crabs, mussells, cockles, winkles and whelks.

I still do to this day. Haddock for me tea last night.

Don't know if the actual fishermen are making much money today - but the friggin' supermarkets are certainly charging a price on a par with wild game for the stuff. I paid £3.50 for a tiny pot of dressed crab yesterday in ASDA. Just the meat - no claws or legs to suck the insides out of...!

Sadly, local wet-fish shops are all but extinct around here now. I live within eight miles of two fishing towns - Hartlepool and Seaham - and the shopping areas that once boasted plenty of choice and healthy competition now all contain nail-bars and charity shops.

I know of one still open in Hartlepool, and Durham Market has a good stall. Seaham lost its last wet-fish shop a few years ago. A brave soul opened one in the village of Horden near Peterlee in 2015 - but that also closed about six months ago. The sea is less than a mile from that shop.

Fucking supermarkets...

 

XYY

Where to start, where to start....

you buy crab (or any fish) from a supermarket?  Ffs, xyy, I thought you had more about you than that. :)

are you sure those two towns are fishing ports?  Do they actually have any fishing boats?  Whitby no longer boasts a fishing fleet, there is one boat and and a few small cobles. From what I understand, they are more likely to be crewed by Filipinos than local people. 

Mind there is still a fish factory that sells fish from the back door to locals. 

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24 minutes ago, The XYY Man said:

Have enjoyed your posts on the subject.

Fish used to be cheap and plentiful when I was a kid - or even free if your uncle Brian drove the delivery van from Hartlepool fish quay...! ;)

We ate it at least twice a week - and also enjoyed plenty of crabs, mussells, cockles, winkles and whelks.

I still do to this day. Haddock for me tea last night.

Don't know if the actual fishermen are making much money today - but the friggin' supermarkets are certainly charging a price on a par with wild game for the stuff. I paid £3.50 for a tiny pot of dressed crab yesterday in ASDA. Just the meat - no claws or legs to suck the insides out of...!

Sadly, local wet-fish shops are all but extinct around here now. I live within eight miles of two fishing towns - Hartlepool and Seaham - and the shopping areas that once boasted plenty of choice and healthy competition now all contain nail-bars and charity shops.

I know of one still open in Hartlepool, and Durham Market has a good stall. Seaham lost its last wet-fish shop a few years ago. A brave soul opened one in the village of Horden near Peterlee in 2015 - but that also closed about six months ago. The sea is less than a mile from that shop.

Fucking supermarkets...

 

XYY

ta

Yes, supermarkets aren't helpful in the mark up they take, while keeping the price 'acceptable', which squeezes

Fishermen, whom IMO, should get a much higher price at market if that allowed smaller catches and greed didn't prevail, although I wouldn't be hopeful of the latter. As consumers, we should also have smaller portions, also valuing it more. In many other countries, 'our' portion of fish with 'fish 'n chips' would equate to two portions.

Let's talk global warming (and not argue whether is its man made for now). The seas are currently warming (to different extents in different places) and this is causing fish (and their food) to move around a lot, at a time when fisheries are also under pressure due to over fishing. (Habitats, being fixed, do not move with temperature.) Together, fishing and warming, are a 'perfect storm' and the environment (warming) is the biggest driver. When the environment is unchanging we can try to manage fisheries but, as Canute found, when the environment moves all attempts at management go out the window; the environment will trump any management we may have in place based upon stocks. We are very behind the curve in appreciating or accepting the influence of environment on fisheries while we continue to fish, and have been behind the curve for about 50 years.

 

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18 minutes ago, One percent said:

Where to start, where to start....

you buy crab (or any fish) from a supermarket?  Ffs, xyy, I thought you had more about you than that. :)

are you sure those two towns are fishing ports?  Do they actually have any fishing boats?  Whitby no longer boasts a fishing fleet, there is one boat and and a few small cobles. From what I understand, they are more likely to be crewed by Filipinos than local people. 

Mind there is still a fish factory that sells fish from the back door to locals. 

I suddenly fancied some crab. It was 3.30 yesterday afternoon and my choice was pot of dressed-crab which I could spunk more into from the supermarket, or a drive to Durham or Hartlepool (up to half an hour dependant on traffic and getting parked.) at a time when they would likely be starting to pack-up, or may have already sold-out. I certainly have more about me than to waste petrol and my valuable weekend time on such a fruitless mission.

I believe Hartlepool still has active fishing boats - the fish quay is certainly still operating. Not so sure about Seaham, but you can charter rod-fishing boats from the harbour.

My point is despite having more about me than that, these days I have a limited choice because of the bastard supermarkets.

I wish it were different - but unfortunately it isn't...

:(

 

XYY

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