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Wight Flight

The GREAT BIG General election thread

At the GE I'll probably vote for...  

160 members have voted

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  1. 1. At the GE I'll probably vote for...



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3 hours ago, twocents said:

That might be why the bankers' shill Martin Lewis (at least it sounded like him) was on the radio this afternoon trying to explain why taking on a massive increase in students' tuition fee debt was a good idea and nothing to be concerned about.

Yes. Utter cunt. Must be in the bankers pocket. All 3 of my kids will come out of college with degrees useful to society. A doctor, and engineer, a midwife. Each with 10's of thousands of pounds in debt, at usurious interest rates. And he reckons it's all fine.

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4 hours ago, wherebee said:

It's a false argument to say vote X because Y and Z won't do what is needed, if X won't do it either.  In that situation - which is where we are now - voting for Y and Z is rational IF you think they will at as a catalyst to the birth of a new paradigm.  

I can fairy confidently predict your new paradigm won’t happen.

Dems get in,  political mandate would (quite correctly) be fulfilled for cancelling Brexit.  We go back begging Europe to let us back in.  They agree (probably with lots of highly unfavourable preconditions)..  

Brexit never gets discussed again, migrant flows into Southern and Eastern Europe continue to head north to Britain, Europe continue to take more centralised power..  and your protestations and riots in the street mean nothing,  because your leaders are now in Brussels again and your own regional government about as powerless to stop anything you care about as your current local council.

If that is your dream for the future..  then fine, a vote for the LabDems probably is for you.  But again,  I think you’re barking.

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23 minutes ago, Libspero said:

I can fairy confidently predict your new paradigm won’t happen.

Dems get in,  political mandate would (quite correctly) be fulfilled for cancelling Brexit.  We go back begging Europe to let us back in.  They agree (probably with lots of highly unfavourable preconditions)..  

Brexit never gets discussed again, migrant flows into Southern and Eastern Europe continue to head north to Britain, Europe continue to take more centralised power..  and your protestations and riots in the street mean nothing,  because your leaders are now in Brussels again and your own regional government about as powerless to stop anything you care about as your current local council.

If that is your dream for the future..  then fine, a vote for the LabDems probably is for you.  But again,  I think you’re barking.

Wrong.  If we rejoined under even shitter conditions, which i agree would be likely, that would force even more people to see how fucked the situation is.  I know a lot of contacts and rellies who are remainers because the EU has been good for the UK.  When I start to show them the way the UK has been fucked, they start to change there minds.  One old auntie has gone from voting remain and massively pro EU, to full on BREXIT party in three years, and I know thats because of what I have shown her re EU troughing, decimation of british industry using UK money, numbers of EUers using the  NHS, etc etc.

A pro-british party only needs 40% of the vote to win.

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31 minutes ago, wherebee said:

Wrong.  If we rejoined under even shitter conditions, which i agree would be likely, that would force even more people to see how fucked the situation is

Well, I agree more people might get frustrated and disillusioned..  but the EU might revoke the article 50 mechanism to make it harder/impossible to leave. Even if they didn't,  the argument would be made that Brexit caused so much trouble the first time around, and then the public changed their minds..  why would anyone ever want to do that again?

You have seen what most of the political class have done to try to overturn the will of the British people WRT to leaving Europe. They will never vote in parliament again for another referendum,  not in our lifetimes.  And I fear your dream of some kind of right wing anti Europe anti housing party is a pipe dream.  Those are not popular enough positions to ever win a landslide victory (or even a marginal one). IMHO. 

Voting LabDems in order to catalyse the creation of one..  well,  you already have the Brexit party..  I don't think they're anti HPI,  but at least they will give you the hard Brexit you want.

Edited by Libspero

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6 minutes ago, Libspero said:

Well, I agree more people might get frustrated and disillusioned..  but the EU might revoke the article 50 mechanism to make it harder/impossible to leave. Even if they didn't,  the argument would be made that Brexit caused so much trouble the first time around, and then the public changed their minds..  why would anyone ever want to do that again?

You have seen what most of the political class have done to try to overturn the will of the British people WRT to leaving Europe. They will never vote in parliament again for another referendum,  not in our lifetimes.  And I fear your dream of some kind of right wing anti Europe anti housing party is a pipe dream.  Those are not popular enough positions to ever win a landslide victory (or even a marginal one). IMHO. 

Voting LabDems in order to catalyse the creation of one..  well,  you already have the Brexit party..  I don't think they're anti HPI,  but at least they will give you the hard Brexit you want.

Oh I agree, but the original point was someone saying vote Tory instead of LABLIB.  My assumption was there was no BREXIT party candidate.  if there was, then yes.

 

I will have a vote in this upcoming election.  I intend to vote Brexit party if possible, if not, then LAB.  

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59 minutes ago, wherebee said:

Oh I agree, but the original point was someone saying vote Tory instead of LABLIB.  My assumption was there was no BREXIT party candidate.  if there was, then yes.

Ahh..  that makes much more sense.

:Beer:

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1 hour ago, wherebee said:

Oh I agree, but the original point was someone saying vote Tory instead of LABLIB.  My assumption was there was no BREXIT party candidate.  if there was, then yes.

The only thing I Am 100% sure of is, ill never vote Tory ever again. No matter who or what the candidates are(and I know what they are, liars). 

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Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons and stir the speculative pot even more. What if the price of 'LibDem' participation in another coalition government is yet another referendum on proportional representation?

Once FPTP is abandoned, you can forget the possibility of any future government being able to enact anything which involves an element of risk.

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5 hours ago, Popuplights said:

Yes. Utter cunt. Must be in the bankers pocket. All 3 of my kids will come out of college with degrees useful to society. A doctor, and engineer, a midwife. Each with 10's of thousands of pounds in debt, at usurious interest rates. And he reckons it's all fine.

Isnt it more his inane, simplistic approach to debt. In that he encourages people (or at least 10 years ago was, the last time I listened to him) to view entire debt classes simply as 'bad debt' or 'good debt' 

Mortgages & student loans being good debt and everything else bad. 

He was saying mortgages are good debt before the housing crash too...wonder how many he f*cked over with his 'mortgages are find...house prices always go up' mentality. 

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9 hours ago, XswampyX said:

It's a complete farce. 16 year old's voting in school and EU immigrants voting for the EU.... what's next ballot stuffing and postal vote rigging?

Don't be silly. These, along with calls for political violence against the wrong party are already part and parcel of a modern progressive political party. I believe the assassination of one's political opponents is the next logical step and I eagerly await David Lammy's pronouncement that this final solution would be to the benefit of us all.

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Just now, unregistered_guest said:

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons and stir the speculative pot even more. What if the price of 'LibDem' participation in another coalition government is yet another referendum on proportional representation?

Once FPTP is abandoned, you can forget the possibility of any future government being able to enact anything which involves an element of risk.

 

Would that be so bad. 

All I know is under the current system, we have had the lowest real wage increase of any EU nation bar Greece over the last 20 years. We are more demographically fragmented than any other EU country. We're more overcrowded than any other large EU nation bar Holland. 

The EU is a minor irritation. The real problem is the neo-liberal, anglo-american incredibly short termist model of 'Growth at any cost' economics which is simply pile em high, sell em cheap. 

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8 hours ago, Libspero said:

Feel free to tactically vote against the Tories if you feel that strongly about them..  but I don’t understand your reasoning that the Libdems and Labour are somehow going to push Brexit, stop immigration and deflate house prices.  Frankly I think you’re barking!

If that’s your main priority you’d be better off voting for the Brexit party..  though I don’t believe even they are interested in deflating house prices.

 

I dont...Brexit i'm pretty ambivalent about at this point. The idea that it will change anything when the rot is so deep domestically is silly.

My view is that Peter Hitchens has been espousing since 1990 (he last voted in 1987) in that the Tory party needs to die off so something actually conservative can rise in its place. IIRC he even advised his readers to vote anyone but Cameron in 2010. 

I still think he is right. The biggest impediment to any real change in this country is the existence of the tory party.

Besides, labour and tory bounce of each other. People vote against the other. The tory party needs labour to exist, and labour needs tory to exist. If one goes, the other will surely soon follow. 

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Well, here we go.  It's on.

Labour to back early general election

  • 2 minutes ago

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn says his party will support an early general election as the government makes its pitch for a poll on 12 December.

Mr Corbyn said his condition to take a no-deal Brexit off the table "has now been met" after the EU agreed to extend the deadline to 31 January 2020.

But he did not explicitly say if he would back the government's bill in Parliament later.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50221856

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31 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Well, here we go.  It's on.

Labour to back early general election

  • 2 minutes ago

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn says his party will support an early general election as the government makes its pitch for a poll on 12 December.

Mr Corbyn said his condition to take a no-deal Brexit off the table "has now been met" after the EU agreed to extend the deadline to 31 January 2020.

But he did not explicitly say if he would back the government's bill in Parliament later.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50221856

.

Quote

"We have now heard from the EU that the extension of Article 50 to 31 January has been confirmed, so for the next three months, our condition of taking no-deal off the table has now been met.

In other words under Article 50 No Deal will still be on the table but Corbyn's condition that the tories will be fighting the election after Boris broke his solemn promise about leaving on 31 October will be met.

Another very serious promise on the eu broken by the tories and freshly broken so still in people's memories.

 

Quote

"We will now launch the most ambitious and radical campaign for real change our country has ever seen."

Another "White Heat Of Technology" promise - but at least they won't have so recently broken a solemn promise to the electorate like the tories will have done (again).  People might even fall for it.

Edited by twocents

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33 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Well, here we go.  It's on.

Labour to back early general election

  • 2 minutes ago

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn says his party will support an early general election as the government makes its pitch for a poll on 12 December.

Mr Corbyn said his condition to take a no-deal Brexit off the table "has now been met" after the EU agreed to extend the deadline to 31 January 2020.

But he did not explicitly say if he would back the government's bill in Parliament later.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50221856

no words to describe this, yesterday they didn't support a GE, but today they do?

what changed other than the date? any amendments coming?

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Just now, snaga said:

no words to describe this, yesterday they didn't support a GE, but today they do?

what changed other than the date? any amendments coming?

Nick Watt on Newsnight said last night that if all the gerrymandering amendments are put forward, Boris will pull the bill.

We could still easily NOT have an election IMHO.

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1 minute ago, Bus Stop Boxer said:

Nick Watt on Newsnight said last night that if all the gerrymandering amendments are put forward, Boris will pull the bill.

We could still easily NOT have an election IMHO.

I wonder if Labour are more afraid of the LibDems preferred date of 9th and any amendments the libdems put forward?

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10 minutes ago, snaga said:

no words to describe this, yesterday they didn't support a GE, but today they do?

what changed other than the date? any amendments coming?

Nothing changed as far as I can see beyond Labour deciding overnight that they would do worse in a delayed GE that they had sought to block then in an earlier GE.

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Labour will promise it can only get better after 9 years of tory misrule with lots of Christmas presents under Labour and they will say the tories won't do that because they never do - and apart from anything else they just broke a serious and solemn promise - again - and they can't be trusted - and Labour will transform the country.

People fall for the mainstream party tricks again and again.  

Edited by twocents

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@spunko  can you add to the poll - "Tactical vote for Brexit"

Depending upon your constituency this could be Leaver Conservative, Leaver Labour, or Brexit.

I'll be voting either Conservative or Brexit but which one depends upon any deal made and also election polls.

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44 minutes ago, twocents said:

Labour will promise it can only get better after 9 years of tory misrule with lots of Christmas presents under Labour and they will say the tories won't do that because they never do - and apart from anything else they just broke a serious and solemn promise - again - and they can't be trusted - and Labour will transform the country.

People fall for the mainstream party tricks again and again.  

If you're not on bennies or in the pay of the Government how do you get Corbyn's presents and who pays.

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10 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

@spunko  can you add to the poll - "Tactical vote for Brexit"

Depending upon your constituency this could be Leaver Conservative, Leaver Labour, or Brexit.

I'll be voting either Conservative or Brexit but which one depends upon any deal made and also election polls.

Done, although pretty sure everyone would vote for that on here. :D

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8 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

If you're not on bennies or in the pay of the Government how do you get Corbyn's presents and who pays.

For sure they'll think of something.  Tax, borrow and spend.  It doesn't mean they'll keep their promises.

The other lots are no better of course.

Edited by twocents

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