• Welcome to DOSBODS

    Please consider creating a free account to be able to access all the features of the DOSBODS community. It only takes 20 seconds!

Sign in to follow this  
Malthus

Lucky we have a magic money tree

Recommended Posts

That article is terrible reporting.

£320k sounds like a lot, but I've no experience of that sector so I've no idea what it means.

I do know that when costs like this are banded about it is always the total cost of running the service divided by use, rather than an incremental cost per user.  So, if it was written as 'the juvenile justice and prison service would cost £15m pa, even with no offenders -- that is, the cost of the building, base staffing, etc.  On top of that, each offender has specific costs of £30k -- food, additional staff members, outsourcing rehabilitation services.  We don't like spending it but you've got to do something'   (or something).

But the main weakness in this sort of reporting is the isolated figures, so I'd most interested in:

  • What is the offending rate compared with other countries?  Include some examples of best-practice and where is has all gone wrong.  Is NI good or awful?  Stats for RoI (especially border areas) would be particularly interesting.
  • How much do other countries manage to get away with spending?  (per offender, per seriousness).  Include scale effects -- might it be cheaper for England because fixed costs are divided by a larger cohort, say.
  • What are 'normal' rehabilitation rates?  Give some examples of countries that have managed to bring them down.  What is the normal 'worst case' and is NI close to it?
  • What about other strategies?  Might different approaches be cheaper or more effective?  Okay, some talk of this in the article but of the useless 'something must be done' variety -- all to easy to say this, much more difficult to discuss how to do the doing part.
  • Perhaps discuss the ethics of it.  Is a relatively small number of incarcerations a 'price you just have to pay' or is it a symbol of a bygone age?

This sort of weak regurgitive reporting seems to be designed only to make people cross.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dgul said:

That article is terrible reporting.

£320k sounds like a lot, but I've no experience of that sector so I've no idea what it means.

I do know that when costs like this are banded about it is always the total cost of running the service divided by use, rather than an incremental cost per user.  So, if it was written as 'the juvenile justice and prison service would cost £15m pa, even with no offenders -- that is, the cost of the building, base staffing, etc.  On top of that, each offender has specific costs of £30k -- food, additional staff members, outsourcing rehabilitation services.  We don't like spending it but you've got to do something'   (or something).

But the main weakness in this sort of reporting is the isolated figures, so I'd most interested in:

  • What is the offending rate compared with other countries?  Include some examples of best-practice and where is has all gone wrong.  Is NI good or awful?  Stats for RoI (especially border areas) would be particularly interesting.
  • How much do other countries manage to get away with spending?  (per offender, per seriousness).  Include scale effects -- might it be cheaper for England because fixed costs are divided by a larger cohort, say.
  • What are 'normal' rehabilitation rates?  Give some examples of countries that have managed to bring them down.  What is the normal 'worst case' and is NI close to it?
  • What about other strategies?  Might different approaches be cheaper or more effective?  Okay, some talk of this in the article but of the useless 'something must be done' variety -- all to easy to say this, much more difficult to discuss how to do the doing part.
  • Perhaps discuss the ethics of it.  Is a relatively small number of incarcerations a 'price you just have to pay' or is it a symbol of a bygone age?

This sort of weak regurgitive reporting seems to be designed only to make people cross.

 

 

 

It's not just this sort the whole of the MSM is a giant trolling operation and always has been.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Goat said:

Do other countries have to put up with this type of s***, if so what do they do about it, if not then why is it unique to us?

I think in Sweden problem children go on gender studies courses to get in touch with their feminine side.

They also get AK-47 training with returning ISIS fighters, a copy of the Quran with complementary prayer mat, and an Ikea family card.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Goat said:

Do other countries have to put up with this type of s***, if so what do they do about it, if not then why is it unique to us?

No,  In most Asian countries the teachers would beat the children.  

And then the parents would beat the children for getting into trouble.

Seems to work for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Economic Exile said:

IMO a lot of looked after/secure accommodation children have lacked being disciplined.

Having worked in residential childcare homes I found that they done nothing to remedy this state of affairs. Wreck the house by smashing furniture, pulling radiators off walls......no sweeties for a week. Refuse to attend school.....that's ok we won't make you go. Be verbally and physically abuse to staff......ask them what the staff member said or done to make them feel angry. Appalling places full of idiot ex social workers and low paid workers who do as they're told

Many kids in residential care would benefit from army basic training if they are still disruptive by age 12.

The statistics for outcomes of looked after children are dismal. Most females end up as jobless single mothers and most males end up as offenders. 

 

Testify sister...!

 

XYY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Goat said:

Do other countries have to put up with this type of s***, if so what do they do about it, if not then why is it unique to us?

I went to 16 different schools in three different countries in my rather sketchy and travel-heavy upbringing.

The most badly behaved school kids I ever encountered were in Australia. That said, it was mid-nineties so things may have changed but I've spoken to a few mates who've moved over there with their kids and it's still an quite an issue apparently.

Went to a school in Glasgow and that was ok, also one in Folkestone which was pretty awful but it was the Aussie ones that really took the cake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The XYY Man said:

Describes exactly my upbringing in 1970s Hartlepool.

Complain about the hiding you got at school - and get another one at home.

And my five foot five, seven-stone mother gave out worse beatings than the rest of them put together...

 

 

XYY

Same upbringing here. No way would I have went home and complained about getting belted at school. I would have been told well you must have deserved it and got another physical punishment. Never done me any harm. I understood the rules and knew every time why I was being punished.

These days the parents are rolling up to the school complaining about their kid being abused for being sat on a naughty bench or something trivial like that.

More discipline needed at home and at school IMO. It's common sense that there is a very big difference between a physical punishment for breaking rules and continual physical abuse from inappropriate parents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Economic Exile said:

Same upbringing here. No way would I have went home and complained about getting belted at school. I would have been told well you must have deserved it and got another physical punishment. Never done me any harm. I understood the rules and knew every time why I was being punished.

These days the parents are rolling up to the school complaining about their kid being abused for being sat on a naughty bench or something trivial like that.

More discipline needed at home and at school IMO. It's common sense that there is a very big difference between a physical punishment for breaking rules and continual physical abuse from inappropriate parents.

Not in the eyes of the progressives.  That would mean judging - and judgmental behaviour is VERBOTEN

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Economic Exile said:

Same upbringing here. No way would I have went home and complained about getting belted at school. I would have been told well you must have deserved it and got another physical punishment. Never done me any harm. I understood the rules and knew every time why I was being punished.

These days the parents are rolling up to the school complaining about their kid being abused for being sat on a naughty bench or something trivial like that.

More discipline needed at home and at school IMO. It's common sense that there is a very big difference between a physical punishment for breaking rules and continual physical abuse from inappropriate parents.

And me.  I think you, me and maybe xyy turned out ok xD

bad parenting is at the bottom of a lot of ills in society. I brought mine up as I was and they have turned out ok.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dunno about up your way EE, but down here they couldn't hit you until you joined the "Junior" school at seven.

In the "infants" school - your punishment was to stand outside the headmistresses office underneath a picture of the Queen for an hour or so - and reflect upon your badness.

I spent so much time staring at that picture that I reckon could paint a perfect copy of it whilst blind-folded to this very day...

;)

 

 

XYY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, One percent said:

And me.  I think you, me and maybe xyy turned out ok xD

bad parenting is at the bottom of a lot of ills in society. I brought mine up as I was and they have turned out ok.  

👍🏻

Agree. No sponger snowflakes have been produced by you, me and Mr XYY.

I heard a 37 year old male being extremely abusive to his father the other day. Not a sponger benefit type family, they have a very successful business. Son works in business and has been gifted a house and car plus getting a pension paid. He reminds me of a tantruming two year old child!

If I was in that family situation the son would have been sacked long ago and given nothing until he could at least be civil towards me and others. Tough love!

I don't think that it's only the generational spongers that are producing uncivilised oiks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, The XYY Man said:

Dunno about up your way EE, but down here they couldn't hit you until you joined the "Junior" school at seven.

In the "infants" school - your punishment was to stand outside the headmistresses office underneath a picture of the Queen for an hour or so - and reflect upon your badness.

I spent so much time staring at that picture that I reckon could paint a perfect copy of it whilst blind-folded to this very day...

;)

 

 

XYY

I can't really remember at what age I received physical punishment at school Mr XYY. I do recall having to sit outside the headmasters office though and not being allowed outside at playtime.

I remember getting smacked with a ruler on the upper hand and on my thigh at a very young age at school. It then advanced to getting your open palm whipped with a leather belt later on at primary and throughout secondary school.

Some of the male teachers kept their belt over their shoulder under their jacket. I have very fond memories of Mr Mackie......you knew you were going to get the belt when he bellowed....THE FLOOR.....that's when you had to go up to the front of the blackboard and get your hand whipped with his leather belt.

I couldn't count how many times I was belted at school. Never harmed me at all. I always understood why the punishment was administered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.