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onlyme

The Shonky Shed

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23 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

I have a chaise longue and chandelier in my shed.

I've met posh tarts like you before!

Don't blame you tbh, sometimes doing shed stuff is more effort than it is worth.

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I've built three sheds over the last couple of weeks.  Amazing sense of comfort and peace descends upon me when I enter the one which will be dedicated to generally tooling around with my bike and other stuff.  Every bloke should have a shed. It is a like a meditation tool. 

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On 30/03/2017 at 18:42, davidg said:

I have a lap dancing club in my shed

Bragger! I have a crap lawnmower and a bent front door for a Cadillac! And some Toc H lamps!

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6 hours ago, man o' the year said:

The old abandoned wasp nest in my shed is a bit like a chandelier. Haven't the heart to get rid so it is still there after a couple fo years..

I have one in my garage from earlier this year.  Tempted to leave it as I understand wasps won't move into an area which is already occupied - even by an empty nest, or paper bag with string wrapped around it. 

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This is what I love about DOSBODS - you have a question and then find out that there's a whole thread dedicated to it already.

I need to build a large shed, or specifically a 12x24 foot combination, where one half is an open fronted field shelter for animals, and the other half is closed for storage (although not secure - I know we're going to get "visitors" so the plan is only to store stuff in there that I can afford to lose, and to not bother with any security so I don't have to buy a new sodding door every time some thieving bastard decides they want to take someone else's stuff rather than get their own).

I got a quote from a company for the combination shelter in this link, but by the time I have it delivered I'm looking at £2,000, and the closer I look at it, the less convinced I am of the quality. Since it's a modular panel build, and I have all the tools needed (afaik), plus a bit of spare time, I'm looking to price up doing it myself. I reckon I'll be looking at probably £1500 for materials, but using better quality materials and hopefully ending up with something a little bit longer lasting.

I'm looking at using 4x2 for the entire framework rather than 3x2, and will price up various options for cladding. From what I understand, shiplap which is classed as 19mm may actually be nearer 11mm by the time it's machined, and I'm not certain that's really enough given that conditions where this thing is going are somewhat adverse, to put it mildly. So I'm also going to look at loglap but any other suggestions for cladding would be very welcome.

At this stage, my key concern is the roof, since from previous experience I've come to the conclusion that it would be better to design and spec the roof first, then build the rest of it to fit that. But here's the rub - I want to stick at 12 foot depth and 24 foot width on the shed because that means that standard 3.6m lengths of 4x2 and cladding will fit the panel sizes perfectly. Given the pitch they specify on their roof (1 foot sloping from front to back), the roof is just a smidgen over 12 feet deep, meaning that with 50-100mm of overlap on the 2000mm Onduline sheets, you have an overhang of about 300mm, not the two feet that they claim in their spec. So I'm wondering how they achieve this since Onduline isn't available in longer lengths, I can't imagine they're cutting 1 foot lengths of it to add on to 2x 2000mm, and I certainly can't imagine that they're reducing the 12 foot depth because that would increase their own workload considerably.

I'm also unconvinced by the spacing of the roof purlins in the images, because at that pitch, the roof is damn near flat and according to the Onduline site, should therefore be fixed to solid sheets of timber rather than intermediate purlins.

Any advice or opinions on this would be really welcome - once I have the roof all figured out, then the rest of it should be quite straightforward, I think.

Paging @SCC as our resident expert... ;)

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If you look at the side view pic, you can see the (single) overlap and the material they are using is definitely much longer than 2M, more like 3.6M. I don't think it's onduline since that is bitumen based and sinusoidal in profile and the sheets that are using look metallic and have flats in the profile.

I've not come across any thickness disparity with shiplap before although the dimension relates to the thick part of the boards, not the profile that is machined out of it. I think you will be fine with it but if you want stronger, just use T&G.

Use pressure treated 4*2 rather than plain and I'd recommend a couple of coats of clear preservative on the cladding before applying cuprinol Ducksback for the finish. I generally use 18mm ply for the roof and I'd be inclined to lay a breathable membrane over that before adding the roofing. A sizable overhang all round is a good idea to keep rain away from the walls.

Is it bare earth or does it have a floor? Ground level rot is likely to be your biggest issue over time.

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Presume you are specifically going for a fixed structure and not one that is moveable - any that is moveable is going to have a seriously light construction.  

One material you might be able to get cheap is OSB board that has been used for site walling previously - this will add a serious amount of rigidity to a structure and you could then go really lightweight on the cladding.  Would be tempted to build in 4x4 treated fence posts concreted in for the corners / openings and building off those if not making pre-sized framed sections (even then making framed sections might be easier with trestles to provide a flat waist height working area.

A gas/electric nailgun  will save you hours of time when framing - buy one second hand if you don't have one, use it and then sell it on for the about the same price. £150 should get you a working one. 

https://www.wyattfencing.co.uk/fencing-materials

 

 FENCING MATERIAL SALES 
We have reclaimed timber in stock all year round in various lengths at brilliant prices
Ideal for a variety of projects
 
4x2 2.4m length @ £2.00
4x2 4.8m length @ £4.00 
6x2 2.4m length @ £2.50
6x2 4.8m length @ £5.00 
 
Reclaimed 8 x 4 Smart Ply OSB boards: 
18mm £5.00 
12mm £4.00
Pallets @ £2.00
 
Edited by onlyme

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Fantastic posts, thanks guys!

To answer some of the queries - yes, the standard build uses box profile galvanised steel roof sheets, and Onduline is an optional extra. So I guess if you choose that, then they do actually squeeze three panels in vertically. That pushes the price up a bit, but worth knowing.

It needs to go onto bare earth, so good point about ground rot. I could raise the thing on skids, which would give some airflow and help prevent that, i think. And see below as well re concrete posts - my intention is to do that and slope the concrete away from the posts at the top, in order to prevent hanging water from rotting them away too quickly.

Interesting comment also about whether it's mobile or not. In order to appease the planning department, technically it has to be mobile, and that therefore explains a lot of my issues with the build quality of the one I linked to. In some of the pics you will see they build it on skid rails, the idea being you can just hitch it up to a tractor and pull it somewhere else. In reality, my intention is to bolt all the panels together, then concrete some 4x4s into the ground and bolt on to those in the corners, and probably a couple in the middle as well. That was what had been done with the last shed, which lasted 30 years in almost constant high winds. I'm calling it mobile on the basis that it's bolted together and thus not fixed - as far as I'm concerned, that planning requirement is to stop me from slowly building a house on the land, so it should not prevent me from using it for legitimate agricultural purposes. And if the council cut up rough, then I'll just say fuck it, and submit constant applications for a house build until the relent and let me build my sheep shed :)

I was going to add OSB anyway in order to stop animals from kicking through the cladding, and I did think it would also increase the weight and rigidity of the whole thing - so that's now a definite.

And I was going to hire a nail gun, but now I come to think of it, what sort of man doesn't actually own one? Ebay here I come...

Thanks guys, fantastic posts as always :)

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13 minutes ago, Fully Detached said:

And I was going to hire a nail gun, but now I come to think of it, what sort of man doesn't actually own one? Ebay here I come...

Thanks guys, fantastic posts as always :)

This one looks on the money, they've gone up a little in price since I bought mine.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Paslode-IM350-90CT-First-Fix-Nail-Gun-/322641899623?hash=item4b1ef4b067:g:dJ8AAOSwnsZZieh-

 

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1 minute ago, onlyme said:

This one looks on the money, they've gone up a little in price since I bought mine.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Paslode-IM350-90CT-First-Fix-Nail-Gun-/322641899623?hash=item4b1ef4b067:g:dJ8AAOSwnsZZieh-

 

Oooh, I mean, what man could resist?

Although I will admit, my local hire shop put them out at £25 for the first day and £12.50 for any subsequent days, though I suppose that could add up fairly quickly. I think what I need to do it price up the build and see what there is left to play with. If I can end up with a better build and a nail gun for the same price as buying in a lesser build and no nail gun, I think Mrs. FD would be hard pushed to complain. That said, she is still legitimately waiting for me to do something useful with my two routers and router table, other than one chicken coop for which I made my own tongue and groove for only 47% more than I could have bought it in B&Q ;) 

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1 minute ago, Fully Detached said:

Oooh, I mean, what man could resist?

Although I will admit, my local hire shop put them out at £25 for the first day and £12.50 for any subsequent days, though I suppose that could add up fairly quickly. I think what I need to do it price up the build and see what there is left to play with. If I can end up with a better build and a nail gun for the same price as buying in a lesser build and no nail gun, I think Mrs. FD would be hard pushed to complain. That said, she is still legitimately waiting for me to do something useful with my two routers and router table, other than one chicken coop for which I made my own tongue and groove for only 47% more than I could have bought it in B&Q ;) 

I couldn't, twice, and a finish nailer, though to be fair the second one was silly cheap so couldn't refuse, £80 I think.  There's plenty of them about, probably get  one locally on gumtree or alike and will be able to check all working OK, though with PayPal protection nowadays not an issue and if you buy right and willing to wait a week or two more than likely to make money on it or at least wash its face.  Yes deffo get all the costings in first and you'll probably want a helping hand as well during the construction as you will be handling a lot of reasonably heavy materials, so price that in too.

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To really eliminate rot from the ground up you need to keep the timber off the ground. One way that you can do this is by using concrete godfather posts set in concrete and attach your 4*4's to them with a bit of clearance above ground level. To do this, I'd build the thing on chocks and then attach the godfathers and remove the chocks. If you need to stop draughts to keep the livestock more cosy, just have a sacrificial outer skirt of treated feather edge down to ground level.

Onduline is easy to cut with a circular saw btw. It's a bit messy and you will need to clean the blade with turps/parafin etc. afterwards but no need to use full panels to cover a foot or two.

One note of caution depending on how experienced you are: If you screw it together, mistakes are a lot easier to undo and correct than nailing. Best to use the green coated decking screws if you do - galvanised or zinc pasivated get eaten by the salts in treated wood. Ideally, if screwing together you need an 18V impact driver.

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On 31/03/2017 at 08:50, SCC said:

I've built three sheds over the last couple of weeks.  Amazing sense of comfort and peace descends upon me when I enter the one which will be dedicated to generally tooling around with my bike and other stuff.  Every bloke should have a shed. It is a like a meditation tool. 

My shed has basically been turned into a storage area for childrens plastic crap. When I clear it out, it tends to be replaced in a matter of weeks (usually by the in-laws). 

Does my head in, it'd be nice just to have somewhere in my house where I wasn't tripping over cheap plastic golf sets or a yet another broken fucking bubble-maker.

>:(

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9 hours ago, NTB said:

To really eliminate rot from the ground up you need to keep the timber off the ground. One way that you can do this is by using concrete godfather posts set in concrete and attach your 4*4's to them with a bit of clearance above ground level. To do this, I'd build the thing on chocks and then attach the godfathers and remove the chocks. If you need to stop draughts to keep the livestock more cosy, just have a sacrificial outer skirt of treated feather edge down to ground level.

Onduline is easy to cut with a circular saw btw. It's a bit messy and you will need to clean the blade with turps/parafin etc. afterwards but no need to use full panels to cover a foot or two.

One note of caution depending on how experienced you are: If you screw it together, mistakes are a lot easier to undo and correct than nailing. Best to use the green coated decking screws if you do - galvanised or zinc pasivated get eaten by the salts in treated wood. Ideally, if screwing together you need an 18V impact driver.

Last bit - yep, they are the business, use them for my fence panels, only problem is (especially with impacts) is that they can still break when removing them or the head gets chewed up, the timber lock ones with hex head are a more expensive but stronger and more reliable solution if you really do need to dismantle the structure. Impact gun and nut driver job done.

Excellent tip on the godfather posts btw, square the building up and getting it all nice and true chocked up first before concreting will be so much easier than fitting building to posts, especially if ground is uneven.

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I'm very interested in the idea of building on chocks, especially as you say, that I could use a sacrificial strip to keep drafts out and make it look right from outside. I'll have a look into how much that would be pushing the planning rules, though I think I'd still be able to argue it on the basis that as it bolts together, it can easily unbolt, and is thus not permanent.

I've had an impact driver on the shopping list for some time, as constant switching from drill bit to driver bit has been driving me insane, so I'll pick one of those up asap.

And I'm also a massive convert to hex head screws after I had to fit some fence rails to galvanised steel gate posts - those Tech screws are amazing, but since they were going through 4mm of steel, I'm pretty sure I would have stripped any other sort of head.

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1 hour ago, onlyme said:

Last bit - yep, they are the business, use them for my fence panels, only problem is (especially with impacts) is that they can still break when removing them or the head gets chewed up, the timber lock ones with hex head are a more expensive but stronger and more reliable solution if you really do need to dismantle the structure. Impact gun and nut driver job done.

Excellent tip on the godfather posts btw, square the building up and getting it all nice and true chocked up first before concreting will be so much easier than fitting building to posts, especially if ground is uneven.

Torx screws are another (better) alternative to PZ. I tend to stick with PZ for cost reasons (I use a lot of them) and don't have much trouble with breakage or cam out thanks to Wera bits and bi or tri torsion bit holder - recommended for anyone using an impact driver. Pricey but worth it. Cheap bits get destroyed by the torque.

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5 hours ago, NTB said:

Torx screws are another (better) alternative to PZ. I tend to stick with PZ for cost reasons (I use a lot of them) and don't have much trouble with breakage or cam out thanks to Wera bits and bi or tri torsion bit holder - recommended for anyone using an impact driver. Pricey but worth it. Cheap bits get destroyed by the torque.

Yes, another better alternative, though had a lot of luck with Felo bits (diamond coated, holder good too) for PZ2, mainly with drill driver rather than impact so may not be man enough for  a lot of impact use. Have taken the fence panels on and off,  and once driven in those slim fencing green screws need a lot more torque to get them back about after a year or two in situ and this is what breaks them off at their neck, modern tools have an incredible amount of power.

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