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Frank Hovis

Bit a' cultcha' - poetry lyrics

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This may work here, it may not.

Poetry has dropped out the education system and the national consciousness in the same way that novels have done.  Certainly my current knowledge of poetry would have seen my getting a E and detention in my English class at age twelve.

Yet there are many poems we all half know so I thought it would be interesting to see from where that stanza came and who was the poet.

As guidelines - which I feel sure will be ignored as always happens on any thread on any forum! - nothing is too obvious and avoid the obscure.  The litmus test is whether one can reasonably expect those lines to sound familiar to your averge DOSBODder.

Poem extracts used in films is a good source.  We've heard the lines but what is the poem and who is the poet?

 

Anyway for starters I'll go for something familiar but not IMO overly so.
 

No searching - obvs - but if you do know it post the poet and the full text of the poem for which a search is allowed.

 

Quote

 

In the room the women come and go

Talking of Michelangelo.

 


 

Quote

 

For I have known them all already, known them all:

Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons,     

I have measured out my life with coffee spoons;

 


 

Quote

 

I grow old … I grow old … 

I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.

 

Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?

I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.

I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.

 

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I know TS Eliot tends to go on somehwat but your selections tend to reveal you are indeed feeling your age, with retirement now beckoning.

Where do you know these from? I recognise many poems and extracts but can recite precisely nothing - my mind jumbles them unless they are organised for me. I prefer to read and ponder.

 

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8 minutes ago, man o' the year said:

I know TS Eliot tends to go on somehwat but your selections tend to reveal you are indeed feeling your age, with retirement now beckoning.

Where do you know these from? I recognise many poems and extracts but can recite precisely nothing - my mind jumbles them unless they are organised for me. I prefer to read and ponder.

 

Yes vaguely familiar but I had to google.
I love TS Elliot's lines:

 

April is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.

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Has @Frank Hovis been to see Cats at the cinema?

Here is one the first half of which has crept into dialogue a couple of times I have noticed. I like his music, but his poetry is mostly shit with the odd diamond in it:

Quote

Death makes angels of us all and gives us wings where we had shoulders smooth as ravens claws.

 

Edited by Hail the Tripod

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35 minutes ago, man o' the year said:

I know TS Eliot tends to go on somehwat but your selections tend to reveal you are indeed feeling your age, with retirement now beckoning.

Where do you know these from? I recognise many poems and extracts but can recite precisely nothing - my mind jumbles them unless they are organised for me. I prefer to read and ponder.

 

Partly drummed in to me at school and mostly forgotten (though I can still recite Keats' Autumn from memory) but also following up references and snatches used in dramas.

A Shropshire Lad is referenced so many times I had to read it but then Colin Dexter started quoting Housman's other works and I also followed that up; the Wasteland I read after the referencing of it in Genesis's The Cinema Show and also its reading in the balcony scene of Brideshead Revisited.

My OP, as you have pretty much guessed, is TS Elliot's The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/44212/the-love-song-of-j-alfred-prufrock

Which is heavily referenced in this including namechecking Eliot.

 

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27 minutes ago, MrPin said:

I'm not fond of poetry and put it in Room 101, along with Morris Men, an Peruvian nose flutes.

Some say that there is poetry and prose, and you're either one or the other, rarely both.

[Poetry is arguably a window into the soul, but you've got to let it and get it.  I usually can't be bothered, but occasionally I read/hear something moving, which probably means that they've managed to get a window into my soul -- but the vast majority of the time I can't be bothered to look into the author's soul (that they're presenting in their poetry)]

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8 minutes ago, Hail the Tripod said:

Has @Frank Hovis been to see Cats at the cinema?

I like his music, but his poetry is mostly shit with the odd diamond in it:

 

Joking!

I used to do a lot of corporate entertaining for Europeans as part of my job and generally they wanted to see musicals for which London is justifiably famous.

After sitting through it twice I introduced a "no Cats" rule because it was so awful and developed an antipathy to Andrew Lloyd Webber msuicals generally as they were so thin - one decent theme and one decent song was about it.  In sharp contrast there was Les Miserables which was jam packed with good songs.  I think ALW is just lazy.

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Also, I suppose that song lyrics are a type of poetry that is fairly accessible to most (obviously not jingle-jangle music).  As an example (along the 'soul' bit above) if you listen to the lyrics of the songs of The The in chronological order they're fairly poetic, and detail the slow madness of Matt Johnson following a painful romance/breakup (there might be a recovery from the madness, but I've not bothered to look beyond about 1987).

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4 minutes ago, dgul said:

Some say that there is poetry and prose, and you're either one or the other, rarely both.

[Poetry is arguably a window into the soul, but you've got to let it and get it.  I usually can't be bothered, but occasionally I read/hear something moving, which probably means that they've managed to get a window into my soul -- but the vast majority of the time I can't be bothered to look into the author's soul (that they're presenting in their poetry)]

I was amazed to hear John Betjeman say that one of his poems typically took about six months to complete; Housman similarly said that they sometimes took ages on their often short verses.

Whne they get it right it's like a beautiful chord chnage happening behind the surface melody line; it helps to read them out loud to really get them.  Alos poems generally have outstanding sections and distinctly average or even poor sections.  I have quoted this one before by Patrick Shaw Stewart but only the last verse which rings like a bell.  The rest of it is ok but sometimes it sings.
 

Quote

 

“I saw a man this morning”

By Patrick Shaw-Stewart

 

I saw a man this morning

     Who did not wish to die

I ask, and cannot answer,

     If otherwise wish I.

 

Fair broke the day this morning

     Against the Dardanelles;

The breeze blew soft, the morn's cheeks

     Were cold as cold sea-shells.

 

But other shells are waiting

     Across the Aegean sea,

Shrapnel and high explosive,

     Shells and hells for me.

 

O hell of ships and cities,

     Hell of men like me,

Fatal second Helen,

     Why must I follow thee?

 

Achilles came to Troyland

     And I to Chersonese:

He turned from wrath to battle,

     And I from three days' peace.

 

Was it so hard, Achilles,

     So very hard to die?

Thou knewest and I know not—

     So much the happier I.

 

I will go back this morning

     From Imbros over the sea;

Stand in the trench, Achilles,

     Flame-capped, and shout for me.

 

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57324/i-saw-a-man-this-morning

 

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I sort of like poetry. I like The Wasteland. I like the words and their sequence n sounds.

Not in a puffy sense mind.

Poetry works as certain poems 'riff' with certain readers minds i.e. its not a  universal thang.

The idea of spending formal time doing poems,  say in a class or Uni, leaves me cold.

I dont think anyone should be a full-time poet.

Im also not keen on BBC token northern poets thang, be it Ted Hughes (who I dont like), Simon Armitage (with his - Hey, Im northern and Im doing poems Me!!!), or that whole 'good at english go to Poly and be a peoples poet. Take your pick o nthe last one - Poetry Please on R4, Ina McMillan. Or the absolutely orse - think ethnic - Benjami Zenphawahtsits.

In light of the last one, here's my peoles poem:

Windrush BumRush

They did not believe me

At immigration

I came in on boat in 2003

Go home they said

So I left

Did not get

to sign on

or stab anyone.

Racists

 

 

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Joking!

I used to do a lot of corporate entertaining for Europeans as part of my job and generally they wanted to see musicals for which London is justifiably infamous.

After sitting through it twice I introduced a "no Cats" rule because it was so awful and developed an antipathy to Andrew Lloyd Webber msuicals generally as they were so thin - one decent theme and one decent song was about it.  In sharp contrast there was Les Miserables which was jam packed with good songs.  I think ALW is just lazy.

 

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4 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I was amazed to hear John Betjeman say that one of his poems typically took about six months to complete; Housman similarly said that they sometimes took ages on their often short verses.

Whne they get it right it's like a beautiful chord chnage happening behind the surface melody line; it helps to read them out loud to really get them.  Alos poems generally have outstanding sections and distinctly average or even poor sections. 

 

That's the whole:

  • Prose is the art of saying a simple thing in as many words as possible -- the time is in the typing.
  • Poetry is the art of saying a complex thing in as few words as possible -- the time is in the detail.
Edited by dgul

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2 minutes ago, spygirl said:

I sort of like poetry. I like The Wasteland. I like the words and their sequence n sounds.

Not in a puffy sense mind.

Poetry works as certain poems 'riff' with certain readers minds i.e. its not a  universal thang.

The idea of spending formal time doing poems,  say in a class or Uni, leaves me cold.

I dont think anyone should be a full-time poet.

Im also not keen on BBC token northern poets thang, be it Ted Hughes (who I dont like), Simon Armitage (with his - Hey, Im northern and Im doing poems Me!!!), or that whole 'good at english go to Poly and be a peoples poet. Take your pick o nthe last one - Poetry Please on R4, Ina McMillan. Or the absolutely orse - think ethnic - Benjami Zenphawahtsits.

+1

All of that.

I've heard a few versions of Betjeman's life and basically he had made nothing from poetry but made his money, and not much, from writing guide books, editing an architecture magazine and marrying imoney.

You get some "artistic" teenager who thinks "I will become a poet" but they miss the reality of it: nobody makes money from writing poetry.  Be a poet if you want but you're still going to be working in McDonalds however successful a poet you become.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Betjeman

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9 minutes ago, dgul said:

That's the whole:

  • Prose is the art of saying a simple thing in as many words as possible -- the time is in the typing.
  • Poetry is the art of saying a complex thing in as few words as possible -- the time is in the crafting.

Nope.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2005/02/14/andy

https://www.newyorker.com/books/poems/clive-james-from-the-river-in-the-sky

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R4 had a few spoken word progs, featuring Jeremy Irons reading written work.

One was The Wasteland. He also did books from New Testament

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/ZkfmRVlzVThZk3cWySHJN4/how-t-s-eliot-can-help-you

I tried listening. Failed.

Whatever I expect the poem to sound like, it was not the upper class lisping twat.

 

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5 minutes ago, spygirl said:

R4 had a few spoken word progs, featuring Jeremy Irons reading written work.

One was The Wasteland. He also did books from New Testament

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/ZkfmRVlzVThZk3cWySHJN4/how-t-s-eliot-can-help-you

I tried listening. Failed.

Whatever I expect the poem to sound like, it was not the upper class lisping twat.

 

They're best read aloud yourself.

It's not poetry but I've always liked the Don Camillo books of Giovanni Guareschi set in a small village in the Po valley in north east Italy in the early 1950s; which I always heard in my mind with soft Italian accents.

Radio 4 did it, still set in Italy, but with northern English accents and entirely ruined it.  I do not expect to be hearing an Italian priest saying "Ey up chuck" or whatever.  Idiots.

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1 minute ago, Horrified Onlooker said:

@The XYY Man is busy at the moment. On his behalf I will point out that everyone that has already posted on this thread is some sort of deviant if not already an outright poof....:)

 

Now if you were discussing the Anglo-Irish poets I could have contributed....

There's always John Cooper-Clarke.

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One for the more lonely Dosbodders! 

(I confess I couldn't remember all the words and Googled)

 

All you who sleep tonight
Far from the ones you love,
No hand to left or right
And emptiness above -
Know that you aren't alone
The whole world shares your tears,
Some for two nights or one,
And some for all their years.

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I like reading poetry out aloud. If I really like a poem I’ll eventually be able to recite it from memory while standing up.....like a solo dramatic act with no observers.

Yes, I don’t get out much xD.

It might sound quirky but it’s something I do on long winter nights to pass the time. Included would be reading up about the poet. Another thing I like is pretending I’m conducting the orchestra while listening to classical music. Also you can read up on famous composers and while away more hours interestingly.

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1 minute ago, Van Lady said:

like reading poetry out aloud. If I really like a poem I’ll eventually be able to recite it from memory while standing up.....like a solo dramatic act with no observers.

Yes, I don’t get out much xD.

Ha ha. You are the lady in the crash helmet and bedroom slippers in the supermarket.

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