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One percent

Haggling with a main stealer

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Looking for some advice on how to manage the main stealer when purchasing a new(ish) car.  Back story, due to potential changes to work I will taking on a heft commute. So, I went into a main stealer yesterday, did a test drive and had an initial talk about numbers.

They were very pleasant.  Did a PCP and a straight forward loan numbers thing.  The PCP would cost 4K in interest.  They could not compute the question I posed as to why I would chose to take out an agreement that would cost me 4K when I could either do it cheaper elsewhere (bank loan) or just pay up front cash.  

Anyhow, I managed to convince them it would be a cash purchase and started talking discounts.  They would not play ball with me until I was prepared to 'do the deal'  Yeah right, I'm going to drop that kind of money without thinking about it.

Anyhow, a quick trawl of the internet tells me I can go through a broker and get the cost down by at least 5K.  that's 10 minutes work!

So, Looking for advice if I decide to change cars:

  • Buy new (where from stealer or broker?)
  • Buy nearly new (how to negotiate with people who will offer disinformation as a matter of course)
  • Give up and retire to dosbods island

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If I was buying a new car I'd use carwow.co.uk

You identify what car you want, they have a number of dealers email you back a price.  One price will be cash, the other finance.

I didn't go through with it in the end, but saw enough to know it's a very good option.  Dealerships are tortuous.

 

 

 

 

Edited by sisyphal

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how about carwow to check starting negotiations? Sisy beat me to it...!

apart from my wife's car, the last two have been cash purchases from a main dealer. I got a better discount on a lease with my wife's car than any of mine. 

There's really no benefit to the dealer in having a cash punter walk in off the street. Interest on loans is where they make their best money. 

Having said that, walking into a showroom a couple of days before the month end (preferably around Xmas time when car sales are slowing) can be a good motivator to sales staff trying to hit a certain number at month end to get their bonus  

 

Edited by Thombleached

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1 minute ago, sisyphal said:

If I was buying a new car I'd use www.carwow.co.uk

You identify what car you want, they have a number of dealers email you back a price.  One price will be cash, the other finance.

I didn't go through with it in the end, but saw enough to know it's a very good option.  Dealerships are tortuous.

 

 

 

 

Agree dealerships are tortuous. They also imho, don't know that much about the cars they are selling - far more information on the different specs and additions can be found on the web.

Carwow has come in 4k below the stealer but drive the deal 1k under that

1 minute ago, Thombleached said:

how about carwow to check starting negotiations? Sisy beat me to it...!

apart from my wife's car, the last two have been cash purchases from a main dealer. I got a better discount on a lease with my wife's car than any of mine. 

There's really no benefit to the dealer in having a cash punter walk in off the street. Interest on loans is where they make their best money. 

Having said that, walking into a showroom a couple of days before the month end (preferably around Xmas time when car sales are slowing) can be a good motivator to sales staff trying to hit a certain number at month end to get their bonus  

 

I thought I had heard that they prefer finance and the approach yesterday seemed to suggest that.  However, for the PCP deal, there was a 4k interest charge, so that's a no.  

The timing is good advice.  Do they all run beginning to end of month in their bonus calculations?

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3 minutes ago, One percent said:

Agree dealerships are tortuous. They also imho, don't know that much about the cars they are selling - far more information on the different specs and additions can be found on the web.

Carwow has come in 4k below the stealer but drive the deal 1k under that

I thought I had heard that they prefer finance and the approach yesterday seemed to suggest that.  However, for the PCP deal, there was a 4k interest charge, so that's a no.  

The timing is good advice.  Do they all run beginning to end of month in their bonus calculations?

What car are you getting then?

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10 minutes ago, sisyphal said:

If I was buying a new car I'd use carwow.co.uk

You identify what car you want, they have a number of dealers email you back a price.  One price will be cash, the other finance.

I didn't go through with it in the end, but saw enough to know it's a very good option.  Dealerships are tortuous.


 


 


 


 

I second carwow.

That's how I bought my Fiat. I initially went in to a dealership and then got bombarded by the bloody salesman so told him to bugger off.

Got about 10 prices through carwow. About 4k off. Dealer in Coventry. Car delivered to my door. Absolutely hassle free.
 

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We bought our 66 plate E class via carwow and the savings were huge on condition that we took out the finance with Mercedes (and then we cleared that with a much cheaper 3% personal loan a fortnight later). I also bought my 66 plate Skoda CitiGo via Carwow. They get my recommendation.

We've lost none of the equity in the main car as the discount was so heavy, would have liked to change the colour however new tax regime means we are stuck with selenite grey.

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1 minute ago, longtomsilver said:

We bought our 66 plate E class via carwow and the savings were huge on condition that we took out the finance with Mercedes (and then we cleared that with a much cheaper 3% personal loan a fortnight later). I also bought my 66 plate Skoda CitiGo via Carwow. They get my recommendation.

We've lost none of the equity in the main car as the discount was so heavy, would have liked to change the colour however new tax regime means we are stuck with selenite grey.

I cannot find the mini finance T&Cs so don't know whether it can be cancelled without penalty.  If it can be, then this is the option as there are even more savings to be had.  Not if they stick interest on at main stealer prices through

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Might be worth trying British Car Auctions - looks like you can basically buy any of their cars outside of the auction process for a quoted price, they are generally ex-lease for the newer cars and many come with limited warranty, need to be careful of VAT but not much difference from buying anywhere else really, pricing might be good, just checked and they have over 20,000 cars in stock ready for auction. Need to register to see what they have.

With a hefty commute any reason for going with the petrol?  Don't think the mini is renowned for frugality considering its size or is there something amiss with the diesels? Just changed the Yaris for a petrol and the 1.3 petrol is absolutely no match for an old 1.4 D4D.

 

Edited by onlyme

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8 minutes ago, onlyme said:

Might be worth trying British Car Auctions - looks like you can basically buy any of their cars outside of the auction process for a quoted price, they are generally ex-lease for the newer cars and many come with limited warranty, need to be careful of VAT but not much difference from buying anywhere else really, pricing might be good, just checked and they have over 20,000 cars in stock ready for auction. Need to register to see what they have.

Not for me.  I have a panic attack walking into a dealership for a service xD

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Just now, One percent said:

Not for me.  I have a panic attack walking into a dealership for a service xD

Fair enough. I've always used a local mechanic, if you can find a good one that is recommended. Having said that with newer cars the manufacturers warranty locks you in with dealership worksop rates.

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Just now, onlyme said:

Fair enough. I've always used a local mechanic, if you can find a good one that is recommended. Having said that with newer cars the manufacturers warranty locks you in with dealership worksop rates.

At my main stealer the prices are not too bad.  Just had rear brake discs and pads for 200 quid.  Probably a bit more than a local mechanic but OEM parts and we are talking London

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9 minutes ago, One percent said:

At my main stealer the prices are not too bad.  Just had rear brake discs and pads for 200 quid.  Probably a bit more than a local mechanic but OEM parts and we are talking London

Very reasonable for main dealer.

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1 hour ago, One percent said:

Looking for some advice on how to manage the main stealer when purchasing a new(ish) car.  Back story, due to potential changes to work I will taking on a heft commute. So, I went into a main stealer yesterday, did a test drive and had an initial talk about numbers.

They were very pleasant.  Did a PCP and a straight forward loan numbers thing.  The PCP would cost 4K in interest.  They could not compute the question I posed as to why I would chose to take out an agreement that would cost me 4K when I could either do it cheaper elsewhere (bank loan) or just pay up front cash.  

Anyhow, I managed to convince them it would be a cash purchase and started talking discounts.  They would not play ball with me until I was prepared to 'do the deal'  Yeah right, I'm going to drop that kind of money without thinking about it.

Anyhow, a quick trawl of the internet tells me I can go through a broker and get the cost down by at least 5K.  that's 10 minutes work!

So, Looking for advice if I decide to change cars:

  • Buy new (where from stealer or broker?)
  • Buy nearly new (how to negotiate with people who will offer disinformation as a matter of course)
  • Give up and retire to dosbods island

Main dealers sell finance and throw in a car 

once you've decided on the car you want 

carwow or ring every dealer of that make and ask for a price, at the right price it's worth getting the car shipped to you 

also I'd buy 6 months old if I was in your position 

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8 minutes ago, Malthus said:

Main dealers sell finance and throw in a car 

once you've decided on the car you want 

carwow or ring every dealer of that make and ask for a price, at the right price it's worth getting the car shipped to you 

also I'd buy 6 months old if I was in your position 

It's what I normally do.  Looking on manufacturer website they are up to 10K less than the stealer quoted on the new one.  the only problem is that they all seem to be in sludge colours O.o

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1 minute ago, One percent said:

It's what I normally do.  Looking on manufacturer website they are up to 10K less than the stealer quoted on the new one.  the only problem is that they all seem to be in sludge colours O.o

Have a look on auto trader 

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5 minutes ago, One percent said:

It's what I normally do.  Looking on manufacturer website they are up to 10K less than the stealer quoted on the new one.  the only problem is that they all seem to be in sludge colours O.o

So 5k less than the best deal you were offered from the websites - what percentage price drop is that for the 6 months, and how many miles? (Sorry no idea what a Mini estate S costs)

Just saw that you only checked the manufacture website for the 6 month old? I guess elsewhere will be much less.

Edited by swissy_fit

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I wrote a lengthy guide on ToS but briefly:

- Go into 4 local dealers and ask for their best price. Obviously it helps if the car spec is identical. Make sure to get it in writing - if opting for finance this is normally easy as they prepare a quote and print it. It's easier to swipe it when they aren't looking as they don't like you to walk away with the print out for some reason.

- Play off the other dealers against each other, asking them to beat the other. Sit on it for a while. Many won't play ball so just walk away and don't get personal.

- If you want to commit low-level fraud then optionally make your own doctored version of the quote and knock off another grand. The odds of them checking are slim, just don't take off a huge amount.

 

I did all of the above and saved about £5k on a new car. Only took an afternoon.

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Just now, swissy_fit said:

 

So 5k less than the best deal you were offered from the websites - what percentage price drop is that for the 6 months, and how many miles? (Sorry no idea what a Mini estate S costs)

Mini has a weird pricing structure. The base car is not too bad but then there are the multitude of packs and various upgrades. The one I specced, not with all the bells and whistles, was 28K. Drive the deal was around 23k I think and carwow best 24.  Cheapest on the mini website 17k about 9 months old with well less than 10k on the clock.  

Ill let you do the maths. :)

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Just now, spunko2010 said:

I wrote a lengthy guide on ToS but briefly:

- Go into 4 local dealers and ask for their best price. Obviously it helps if the car spec is identical. Make sure to get it in writing - if opting for finance this is normally easy as they prepare a quote and print it. It's easier to swipe it when they aren't looking as they don't like you to walk away with the print out for some reason.

- Play off the other dealers against each other, asking them to beat the other. Sit on it for a while. Many won't play ball so just walk away and don't get personal.

- If you want to commit low-level fraud then optionally make your own doctored version of the quote and knock off another grand. The odds of them checking are slim, just don't take off a huge amount.

 

I did all of the above and saved about £5k on a new car. Only took an afternoon.

This falls at the first hurdle for me.  They don't seem to want to give you a best price until you are ready to 'do the deal'. Found this a few years ago when I was helping a relative buy a car. Honda were the worse but none would discuss best price or trade in prices until you were ready to sign. 

Its why I normally run cars into the ground, just can't be bothered with the dance 

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Just now, One percent said:

This falls at the first hurdle for me.  They don't seem to want to give you a best price until you are ready to 'do the deal'. Found this a few years ago when I was helping a relative buy a car. Honda were the worse but none would discuss best price or trade in prices until you were ready to sign. 

Its why I normally run cars into the ground, just can't be bothered with the dance 

Yes, you have to tell them you are ready to do the deal right now (and mean it, generally).

What's funny is after a while the other dealers will ring you to see if you bought the car from another dealer. Suddenly their "best price" from 3 days ago could have been lowered a bit more. But some of them don't play ball as they don't have the margins.

It also can help to buy at the end of the quarter when targets need to be met, ie. end of August and before the new 67 plate is out (if buying fairly new).

If you are p/x don't bother bartering on that until the deal for the newer car has been struck as they'll just offer you a crap price for it and balance it off of the new price. In other words £500 off the price of a p/x will mean £500 added to the new car price.

If you negotiate on the p/x after you've verbally agreed to the price they don't like it, but they can always offer a little more unless you've got an absolute wreck, even if it's just £100 or so.

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32 minutes ago, One percent said:

Mini has a weird pricing structure. The base car is not too bad but then there are the multitude of packs and various upgrades. The one I specced, not with all the bells and whistles, was 28K. Drive the deal was around 23k I think and carwow best 24.  Cheapest on the mini website 17k about 9 months old with well less than 10k on the clock.  

Ill let you do the maths. :)

Sure ok, wow, lot of money for a mini, I suppose it's only a mini by name now. How much is a similar spec car 6-9 months olf on Autotrader as suggested by Malthus? If you are happy to drop 6-7k for the sake of having a car brand new I guess we'll know you really are in the 1%. :)

Things may have changed but in the UK I always bought 2nd hand because the depreciation and thus savings were massive, in CH it's only worth buying 2nd hand with certain cars which are strangely unpopular for no obvious reason where depreciation is high.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Sure ok, wow, lot of money for a mini, I suppose it's only a mini by name now. How much is a similar spec car 6-9 months olf on Autotrader as suggested by Malthus? If you are happy to drop 6-7k for the sake of having a car brand new I guess we'll know you really are in the 1%. :)

Things may have changed but in the UK I always bought 2nd hand because the depreciation and thus savings were massive, in CH it's only worth buying 2nd hand with certain cars which are strangely unpopular for no obvious reason where depreciation is high.

 

 

The thing is, once you sit down and do the maths, a new car can sometimes work out cheaper over the course of a year, than a nearly-new, as dealers need to shift them so offer things like 0% APR as a promotion. Sometimes if you are buying cash it will still be cheaper, I don't know why, I can only assume dealers don't check competitor pricing or think customers won't travel.

A good example is Reg Vardy BMW in Scotland. A long trek for me but worth it to get a brand new car for LESS than a local one that is 6 months old.

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1 hour ago, One percent said:

I cannot find the mini finance T&Cs so don't know whether it can be cancelled without penalty.  If it can be, then this is the option as there are even more savings to be had.  Not if they stick interest on at main stealer prices through

All finance deals can be cancelled without penalty these days. They are now regulated agreements with two exceptions. If you represent that it is a business purchase or you are a high net worth individual, with an income greater than £150k per annum, then you can enter into an unregulated agreement.

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