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The Masked Tulip

Photography - Moments in Time

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A crewman seen preparing to bail out of his burning B-24 Liberator over Vienna, Austria 1944. Many aircrew were lynched upon landing if German people got to them before the authorities did.

What was going through his mind at this point. The rear half of the aircraft ablaze, perhaps moments from exploding. All 4 props still going full whack and way too close to any forward escape. I wonder if survived.

 

DFSkSO3XoAM2jCE.jpg

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7 minutes ago, cheeznham said:

What was the target? A beach?

 

Hard to tell from the image itself. Could have been shipping. Many enemy convoys were so bombed. Could have been coastal defences.

Could have been returning to base with bombs intact - there were desginated areas of sea in which undropped bombs would be dropped so that the aircraft could then land safely. It is thought that both Leslie Howard and Glenn Miller may have been in aircraft accidentally bombed in this way.

Or it could be a premature accidental release.

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Wonder how many aircrew lives could have been saved without burdening bombers with defensive armament and going for speed, with the reduction in personnel on board too.

Presumably would have come at a cost for civvies though...

My grandfather was shot down and interned, not a bomber crew but a Bristol type 156 pilot on night escort duties when downed over northern France- his navigator was apparently amused by the armed soldiers escorting him after capture on the train ride to the prison until he realised it was to protect him from locals- RAF types strung up was a sight witnessed en route to the camp located in what became the GDR.

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18 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

 

Hard to tell from the image itself. Could have been shipping. Many enemy convoys were so bombed. Could have been coastal defences.

Could have been returning to base with bombs intact - there were desginated areas of sea in which undropped bombs would be dropped so that the aircraft could then land safely. It is thought that both Leslie Howard and Glenn Miller may have been in aircraft accidentally bombed in this way.

Or it could be a premature accidental release.

Yes, the Pointe du Hoc is worth a visit in Normandy. I should have thought of that.

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18 minutes ago, cheeznham said:

Wonder how many aircrew lives could have been saved without burdening bombers with defensive armament and going for speed, with the reduction in personnel on board too.

Presumably would have come at a cost for civvies though...

My grandfather was shot down and interned, not a bomber crew but a Bristol type 156 pilot on night escort duties when downed over northern France- his navigator was apparently amused by the armed soldiers escorting him after capture on the train ride to the prison until he realised it was to protect him from locals- RAF types strung up was a sight witnessed en route to the camp located in what became the GDR.

 

It is worth having a read about the 'bomber mafia' - a group of prominent US Army Air Force officers who, in the second half of the 1920's, developed a philosophy that only bombers were needed to win any future war. Amongst these were later WW2 prominenet USAAF officers such as George, Hansell, Doolittle, Spatz and many others. The RAF's 'Bomber Harris' also became a convert to this.

Basically they believed that targetted bombing by highly armed bombers could not only destroy an enemy but that such bombers, heavily armed and flying in tight formation, would literally win wars. No fighter escorts were required.

They became a very powerful and the dominant lobby in the USAAF in the 1920's and 1930's - so much so that officers who disagreed with them often found themselves transferred to less desierable posts, passed over for promotion and even pressured out of the military altogether.

They were responsible for the USAAF basically entering WW2 without quality long-range fighters.

When their bomber ideas were first put into operation over the skies of Europe the USAAF suffered heavy losses - partly because of the daytime bombing, partly because they had no fighter escort whatsoever. In the first year of USAAF bombing from England to Europe the Yanks suffered appalling casualties and a tremendous loss of morale amongst the aircrews. The concept was a failure.

It was only when the USAAF began to have long range fighter escorts did the bombers start to become successful and casualty losses fall.

Despite these failings the bomber mafia remained a powerful lobby in the USAAF, later the USAF, after WW2 and hence we saw a massive increase in the USAF bomber force in the 1950's through to the 1970's. Even the much later post-war development of the Phantom was much down to the philosophy of the bomber mafia so great was the power base of the bomber mafia decades after WW2 had ended.

How USAAF officers who believed in the fighters, both as a hunter and an escort, managed to get funding for fighter development in the 1930's is also an interesting read.

But, for now, have an intro to the bomber mafia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomber_Mafia

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34 minutes ago, cheeznham said:

My grandfather was shot down and interned, not a bomber crew but a Bristol type 156 pilot on night escort duties when downed over northern France- his navigator was apparently amused by the armed soldiers escorting him after capture on the train ride to the prison until he realised it was to protect him from locals- RAF types strung up was a sight witnessed en route to the camp located in what became the GDR.

 

That must have been a dreadful sight. Little is mentioned of this happening but it happened. No one knows how many aircrew died in this way but the numbers must have been significant as there are numerous anecdotal stories of it.

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For anyone interested in this sort of stuff (and I very much am) the IWM at Duxford is probably one of the best days out you can have in the UK. Once my boy is old enough, I'll be taking him there.

This is just one of the hangars, took this last time I was there...

 

20170528_095225.jpg

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1 hour ago, Sgt Hartman said:

For anyone interested in this sort of stuff (and I very much am) the IWM at Duxford is probably one of the best days out you can have in the UK. Once my boy is old enough, I'll be taking him there.

This is just one of the hangars, took this last time I was there...

 

20170528_095225.jpg

Brilliant day out with the kids last year. Though I somewhat resented being guilted into paying extra for a charity donation (they should just include it in the price of the frigging ticket). They specifically ask you at the till "and would you like to donate the extra X"

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1 minute ago, Thombleached said:

Holy shit. I've never seen that. What became of him?

 

Quote

While driving for Ron Hemelgarn, Fox was seriously injured during the 1995 Indianapolis 500 in one of the most serious accidents in the history of the race[citation needed]. After starting ninth, Fox went low into the first turn on the first lap of the race and spun. His car connected with the car of Eddie Cheever, Jr. and slammed into the outside wall. Several other cars also became involved. The front nose-cone was ripped from his car, exposing his legs. Fox suffered serious head injuries.

The accident ended Fox's racing career but he stayed involved with the sport. He started the non-profit organization Friends of the Fox which supports people with head injuries and brings a person to the track each May to meet drivers and get VIP treatment.

 

Quote

Fox was killed in a head-on collision on December 18, 2000 on the Desert Road some 200 miles (320 km) south of Auckland, New Zealand. Fox was driving through the night to attend a speedway meeting and collided head on with a northbound truck and trailer Unit.[2]

 

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14 minutes ago, eight said:

I've always been amazed by this photograph. Stan Fox crashes at the 1995 Indy 500.

indycar-indy-500-1995-stan-fox-suffers-a

And he survived that! Amazing photograph. The war ones that @TMT posted are eerie, people's impending doom caught in a moment forever.

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3 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

 

 

 

I'm astonished that he walked away from that crash. There must have been 99 out of 100 permutations of the way that crash could have happened that would result in death. 

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4 hours ago, The XYY Man said:

 

Optimized-Screen-Shot-2016-11-09-at-13.4

 

 

GazzavScotland-2-1024x707.gif

 

Scotland1_1_2643124b.jpg

 

image.jpg

 

XYY

I was there you cunt !!! 

Great day though. Status quo blaring out at half time. Us jocks can be total sometimes when it comes to sports - but on this day we were class. DJ even thanked us I think. 

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14 minutes ago, ccc said:

I was there you cunt !!! 

Great day though. Status quo blaring out at half time. Us jocks can be total sometimes when it comes to sports - but on this day we were class. DJ even thanked us I think. 

:)

I was watching on TV - and my ceiling and chimney-breast sucked-up nearly a pint of brown ale when that fucker went in...!

I also love your Jock equivalent from 1978 by the way...

 

tumblr_ktekolnRGq1qaossqo1_500.jpg

 

XYY

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6 minutes ago, The XYY Man said:

:)

I was watching on TV - and my ceiling and chimney-breast sucked-up nearly a pint of brown ale when that fucker went in...!

I also love your Jock equivalent from 1978 by the way...

 

tumblr_ktekolnRGq1qaossqo1_500.jpg

 

XYY

If we are doing footy greats , David Healey scoring to beat England in Belfast was pretty special 

IMG_3620.JPG

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