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UK Govt Coronavirus Response: Sceptics Thread


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Funn3r

Just to stir the conspiracy pot a bit...

Seems to be a lot of support (see qanon thread) for the theory that intelligence sources saw a huge likelihood of terror attacks happening. I mean a real possibility of for example orchestrated large scale bombings like the Manchester pop concert. That's the real reason for the lockdown; exaggerate a "normal" virus to keep people safely at home and avoid any decent sized crowds happening. 

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My partners last shift tonight SP (nurse in the community).The bosses are all at home,providing zero PPE and sending her on calls to get someones shopping when they have family in the same street and

As someone who has been sceptical about the UK Govts response to Covid 19,I have found I am in good company...... Whilst no one is in any doubt that an excess number of people are currently dying

Church finally turns up at the frontline.About time.They're getting it. https://lockdownsceptics.org/2021/04/14/christian-leaders-warn-against-the-introduction-of-medical-apartheid-under-a-vaccin

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1 minute ago, Funn3r said:

Just to stir the conspiracy pot a bit...

Seems to be a lot of support (see qanon thread) for the theory that intelligence sources saw a huge likelihood of terror attacks happening. I mean a real possibility of for example orchestrated large scale bombings like the Manchester pop concert. That's the real reason for the lockdown; exaggerate a "normal" virus to keep people safely at home and avoid any decent sized crowds happening. 

Sounds a bit 'Just So' to me.  After all the attacks they didn't stop, like Manchester in this country.

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Funn3r
3 minutes ago, Loki said:

Sounds a bit 'Just So' to me.  After all the attacks they didn't stop, like Manchester in this country.

It is certainly a lot to swallow with no context. You might say would they go so far as to crash the economy even in the face of a confirmed spike in expected terror threat. Which leads you on to thinking maybe they always knew they would have to pop the everything bubble and now was a perfect opportunity. Which leads you on to thinking how could there be an enhanced terror threat across the entire world simultaneously leading to a global rather than local crash... With this sort of thing it's a binary choice either believe the fake official story or spiral yourself down an ever-increasing white rabbit-hole!

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stop_the_craziness
12 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

Just to stir the conspiracy pot a bit...

Seems to be a lot of support (see qanon thread) for the theory that intelligence sources saw a huge likelihood of terror attacks happening. I mean a real possibility of for example orchestrated large scale bombings like the Manchester pop concert. That's the real reason for the lockdown; exaggerate a "normal" virus to keep people safely at home and avoid any decent sized crowds happening. 

Interesting thought.  Especially as I have just started to re-watch "Spooks" from the beginning on the So-Called BBC.  I reckon that was put up there to keep us conspiracy loonies distracted and entertained for a while.

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4 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

It is certainly a lot to swallow with no context. You might say would they go so far as to crash the economy even in the face of a confirmed spike in expected terror threat. Which leads you on to thinking maybe they always knew they would have to pop the everything bubble and now was a perfect opportunity. Which leads you on to thinking how could there be an enhanced terror threat across the entire world simultaneously leading to a global rather than local crash... With this sort of thing it's a binary choice either believe the fake official story or spiral yourself down an ever-increasing white rabbit-hole!

I think the virus is real, and nasty if you get it. But is the perfect scapegoat for so much - the bubble pop, new laws,  mass psychological testing/profiling of the populace, food distribution, Big Data effectiveness... 

Edit: By mass psychological testing/profiling I mean just non-invasive remote analysis rather than a sinister bloke with a clipboard.

Edited by Loki
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sancho panza

well worth the watch,these two guys have a really intelligent discussion about a lot of the issues ref the Corona numbers and the police state type issues that have developed on the back of it.2 Hours and I've only wathced 45 mins but still very good.

 

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sancho panza

Latest ONS figures.Death rate in week ending March 27 was 1591 per day.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending27march2020

'The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 27 March 2020 (Week 13) was 11,141; this represents an increase of 496 deaths registered compared with the previous week (Week 12) and 1,011 more than the five-year average.'

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gibbon
6 hours ago, sancho panza said:

Latest ONS figures.Death rate in week ending March 27 was 1591 per day.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending27march2020

'The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 27 March 2020 (Week 13) was 11,141; this represents an increase of 496 deaths registered compared with the previous week (Week 12) and 1,011 more than the five-year average.'

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Yet if you drill down into the data and increase or decrease of 1,000 deaths week to week is nothing out the ordinary. Where are these 10,000 deaths from CV-19 the media are claiming? Where are the bodies?

image.thumb.png.12d8b86a89e62b894ab4f860a09fe0ad.png

 

Edited by gibbon
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sancho panza
12 hours ago, XswampyX said:

hese more recent figures will get swelled by late registrations as well.

I'm open to all the decent data we can get.The ONS offical stats seem two to three weeks in arrears

Edit:just checked data up to April 3rd now available.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending3april2020

The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 3 April 2020 (Week 14) was 16,387; this represents an increase of 5,246 deaths registered compared with the previous week (Week 13) and 6,082 more than the five-year average.

Of the deaths registered in Week 14, 3,475 mentioned “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)”, which was 21.2% of all deaths; this compares with 539 (4.8% of all deaths) in Week 13.

3. Deaths registered by week

 

Figure 1: The number of deaths involving COVID-19 and "Influenza and Pneumonia" increased compared with the previous week

Number of deaths registered by week, England and Wales, 29 December 2019 to 3 April 2020eaths - 2020

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Edited by sancho panza
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sancho panza

Really great analysis of the economic & Social consequences of the lock down particularly on teh third world.

The reassuring thing for me is that the MSM-who haev the pwoer-are stasrtting to ask these questions.

 

Edited by sancho panza
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sancho panza

Another great vid here with Ernst Wolff,who discusses the Corona crisis with reference to

1) the finanical system

2) connections of WHO to Big Pharma who fund 80% WHO budget

3) misleading data regarding death certificates that noone's questioning

4) pandemics of the past eg bird flu where panic was spread and relatively few died

5) big winners of previous pandemics were Big Pharma

6) discusses the bigger economic/financial picture incl 2008,back to Bretton Woods,that it's now a ponzi scheme ripe for collapse due to issues like /explosion of credit in 90's/LTCM/2008-QE-ZIRP/buy backs/derivatives.

7) Are we in lock down because govts are pre empting a wider economic shut down in the near future?

8) Financial system is unsustainable.Fed unable to unwind QE/ZIRP 2015-2018.Repo market broke in Sept 18 2019 . Hedge funds in trouble due to a) recession occuring b) corona virus and China lock down c) oil price crash

9) Globalist companies will be biggest beneficiaries.

10) Donald Trump not as mighty as Head of Blackrock or Vanguard

11) emergence of cashless society-disempowers ordinary people.

12) We could well be seeing the end of the dollar.

13) China has huge shadow banking problem that has been in trouble for a few years.

 

 

Edited by sancho panza
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Agent ZigZag

Sancho would not rule out any of the points in your post above. The complete shut down of the world economy is complete madness as it frustrates my own common sense. I am now questioning the narrative that politics evolves and follows the markets. Are the markets now to be driven by politics or a deep state narrative

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sancho panza
2 minutes ago, Agent ZigZag said:

Sancho would not rule out any of the points in your post above. The complete shut down of the world economy is complete madness as it frustrates my own common sense. I am now questioning the narrative that politics evolves and follows the markets. Are the markets now to be driven by politics or a deep state narrative

For me,I normally follow the path of Occam's Razor ie simplest solution the best which normally means incompetence is at the root of msot problems.

However,on this,when you look the points Ernst makes,that we've had these trial runs before if you will, with different pandemics that weren't, then it does beg the very simple question as to how the questions raised by people like Malcolm Kendrick GP regarding the health of the whole of society have been ignored.

As I think I've said,I've a friend with terminal cancer whose treatment has been suspended for 12 weeks due to Covid.And there will be many more like him who are neglected in the middle of this crisis.Millions possibly who will suffer.

To put that into perpsective,the threat from Covid has to justify the various omissions with regard to other patients whose treamtents have been stopped.

This is where hindsight is a wonderful thing in that we can look back and assess whether the end justified the means.

Hence,we need to monitor the following metric more closely than others.

image.png.61ad8c665d89e6b8629eda1f07865f77.png

Having said that,the number of deaths involding influenza may well have been inflated by Covid deaths that occurred before they were testing for it.

 

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sancho panza

Some historical perspective regarding excess winter deaths

Interesting to see huge spikes in deaths at various times,sometimes coinciding with flu outbreak,sometimes not.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2018to2019provisionaland2017to2018final

 

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Edited by sancho panza
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sancho panza

Not sure how reliable this data is given differences in how death certificates are written.However,worth noting we're above Sweden in terms of deaths per million

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10 years of CONs

40'000 nurses sacked

20'000 police sacked

12'000 firemen sacked

All their wages frozen whilst MPs have been getting massive rises for being useless SHITs

60 hospitals closed or downgraded

pension age going to 75.. love those CONs

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sancho panza

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/15/sweden-coronavirus-death-toll-reaches-1000

Critics question Swedish approach as coronavirus death toll reaches 1,000

Scientists question light-touch tactics as other Nordic countries record lower death rates

 

Sweden has passed the grim milestone of 1,200 coronavirus deaths, far exceeding the tolls of its nearest neighbours, but suggested it may be nearing the outbreak’s peak as scientists continue to question the government’s light-touch approach.

The Public Health Agency announced a death toll of 1,203 people from Covid-19 on Wednesday, a rate of 118 per million inhabitants, compared with 55 in Denmark and just 13 in Finland, both of which imposed strict early lockdowns to curb the virus’s spread.

Sweden’s per-million tally is also significantly higher than the 42 recorded in Germany – but remains lower than the UK’s rate of 182 (as of Tuesday) and far below Italy’s 349 and Spain’s 399.

Anders Wallensten, the deputy chief epidemiologist, said the number of new Covid-19 cases was starting to decline and he was “cautiously positive” Sweden was approaching the peak. Officials said the health system was coping.

Polling suggests many Swedes continue to support the government’s strategy, which has entailed urging citizens to take personal responsibility for following physical distancing guidelines rather than strictly enforcing mandatory rules.

While authorities have closed senior high schools and banned gatherings of more than 50 people, they have asked – rather than ordered – people to avoid non-essential travel, work from home and stay indoors if they are over 70 or are feeling ill.

Read more

Statistics show roughly half the Swedish workforce is now working from home, public transport usage has fallen by 50% in Stockholm and the capital’s streets are about 70% less busy than usual – but Swedes are still able to shop, go to restaurants, get haircuts and send children under 16 to class even if a family member is ill.

The government’s refusal to close primary and junior high schools – and authorities’ insistence that only children who are themselves ill may stay at home – has caused some families and teachers particular concern, staff and parent groups have said.

Healthy students who have been kept out of school by anxious parents have been threatened with referral to social services, while concerned families and school staff have written open letters describing the government’s policy as “unacceptable” and arguing that it is “risking the lives of children, relatives and staff”.

In one letter published last week in Aftonbladet newspaper, more than 900 teachers and school staff said it was impossible for schools and daycare facilities to observe physical distancing recommendations, adding that “in many cases” children with infected family members had obeyed instructions to attend school, meaning “we are not able to protect children and educators in at-risk groups”.

Anders Tegnell, the country’s chief epidemiologist, has described the Swedish approach as an attempt to ensure “a slow spread of infection and that the health services are not overwhelmed”, arguing that it is important for a part of the population to acquire immunity.

Tegnell has denied trying to build rapid “herd immunity” to the virus, a strategy originally considered by the UK and the Netherlands before soaring projected death rates prompted those countries to change course.

Some experts have speculated that Sweden’s approach to managing the spread of the virus may also be influenced by its demographic profile – more than 50% of households are single-person – and relatively low population density of about 25 people per square kilometre, compared with, for example, 205 in Italy and 259 in the UK.

Although the longer-term impact is obviously unknown, Sweden’s strategy is not expected to preserve the country’s economy this year any more than those of countries imposing stricter lockdowns: Magdalena Andersson, the finance minister, said on Wednesday GDP could shrink by 10% this year and unemployment rise to 13.5%.

The strategy has also come under fire from some of the country’s scientists. A group of 22 doctors, virologists and researchers on Tuesday criticised the health agency in an op-ed published by Dagens Nyheter newspaper.

“The approach must be changed radically and quickly,” the group wrote. “As the virus spreads, it is necessary to increase social distance. Close schools and restaurants. Everyone who works with the elderly must wear adequate protective equipment. Quarantine the whole family if one member is ill or tests positive. Elected representatives must intervene, there is no other choice.”

Tegnell rejected the criticism and disputed the figures on which it was based. He previously said Sweden and its neighbours were on “different places on the curve”, and that Sweden had “unfortunately had a large spread of contagion in care homes for the elderly, something you have not seen in the other Nordic countries”.

The chief epidemiologist has repeatedly stressed that the world is in uncharted territory with the coronavirus, arguing that while Sweden might have more infections in the short term, it will not face the risk of a huge infection increase that many other countries might face once their strict lockdowns are lifted.

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sancho panza

hattip dnb24

https://www.morozkoforge.com/post/when-will-covid-end

When is COVID over?

The official story coming from the World Health Organization (WHO), the Center for Disease Control (CDC), the Chinese Government, and the Imperial College epidemiological model that was used to justify lock down policies in the United Kingdom and California, is that COVID-19 arrived in the United States in early January 2020, and only isolation, quarantine, and shelter-in-place orders can contain its inevitable spread.

 
The official, government-sanctioned, COVID-19 narrative is preposterous. COVID came early.

The CDC's own data shows that back in November 2019, US doctors were reporting tens of thousands of Americans per week suffering from a mysterious, flu-like illness that tested negative for seasonal flu.

 

The figure below compares the number of influenza like illness (ILI) reports filed with the CDC during the flu seasons beginning in 2017, 2018, and 2019, after subtracting the number of reports testing positive for seasonal flu. The data shows that, by the time China released the RNA required to develop a test on 12 Jan, there could have already been over half a million COVID cases in the United States.

 

Given that the earliest known date of infection was 17 Nov 2019 (in China), it stands to reason that the virus was present somewhere in the Chinese population for at least several weeks before it was detected. That pushes the emergence of COVID in China back to at least Oct 2019.

 

Thousands of people a day were travelling on flights from Wuhan, China to airports in the United States during the months of October, November, December, and January because travel restrictions did not go into effect until 23 January 2020 -- after the COVID virus was already epidemic in Wuhan and after positive cases were identified outside China.

 

The official narrative would have us believe that COVID was epidemic in Wuhan for weeks, was confirmed to have escaped Wuhan to other countries (e.g., Thailand), but by some miracle of modern epidemiology, managed to avoid the tens of thousands of travelers who left Wuhan and came to the US during the first three or four months of the outbreak, and that the flu-like cases reported to the CDC in November, December and January were due to some other mysterious, unidentified, flu-like infection that happened to be two to three times more prevalent in 2019 than in previous years.

 

That story strains credulity to such an extraordinary extent that it looks to us like pure propaganda.

 

A much simpler explanation is that COVID emerged in China in the early Fall and spread quickly through the population of Wuhan without being detected as novel, because about 80% of contagious individuals experience only mild (or no) symptoms. Moreover, these asymptomatic individuals carried it to places around the world, like Italy, Thailand, South Korea, and the United States, because these are frequent destinations for travelers doing business in or with Wuhan. As a result, by the time COVID was detected in a symptomatic case in the United States, it had already infected millions of people who:

 
  1. Did not experience symptoms severe enough to warrant medical attention, or

  2. Were not diagnosed because there was no test for COVID until late January 2020, or

  3. Died of complications related to COVID, that were reported as pneumonia or something else.

That means that the "curve" everyone is working so hard to flatten has a much different shape than the official narrative presumes. The figure below shows two curves, one that rises very fast and overwhelms healthcare resources, even if we add beds, add staff, and add ventilators. This curve (at the top of the graph) is the one that Chinese officials want us to believe. Because they concealed the COVID outbreak for months before admitting it was already epidemic in Wuhan, they wanted the world to believe that the growth rate of new infections was much more rapid than it really is, because that's the only way to explain the "sudden" onset of an epidemic.

 

The second curve near the bottom of the graph is much flatter -- it spaces out the same total number of infections over time. Because it does not have so many cases all at once, the healthcare system does not have to turn away anyone who needs care.

 
COVID arrived in the US earlier and will peak sooner than current models predict.COVID arrived in the US earlier and will peak sooner than current models predict.
 
 
COVID behaves more like the bottom curve than the top.
 

The top curve is labeled "mitigation" because that's what the Imperial College study calculated would happen in the US and United Kingdom with economic lock-down, based on the official Chinese propaganda about the COVID growth curve. The bottom curve, according to the Imperial Colle study, shows how "suppression" (lock-down) will save lives -- by "flattening the curve."

 

The problem is that once you realize that COVID started earlier than official estimates, then you realize that it'd not growing as fast, the peak will arrive sooner, and that the curve is already flat. That obviates the need for lock-down policies.

 

It also means that tens of millions of Americans have already been exposed and infected, and they may already have immunity -- like this medical doctor, who recently tested positive for COVID antibodies after experiencing an undiagnosed flu-like illness in January.

His antibodies mean that COVID immunity lasts for at least two months.

 

The enormous advantage to having immunity is not just protection of his own health, but the realization that he is now acting as barrier, rather than a carrier, of the disease. Immunity can come from infection and recovery, as your body builds the antibodies that prevent reinfection.

 

If you experienced COVID-like symptoms in November 2019 or after, there's a good chance you were infected, too. If you didn't, you might have been one of the people who was infected, but never experienced symptoms. Without an antibody test, we don't really know.

Nonetheless, there is another way to build a resistance to COVID that is almost as good as immunity, and that is to maintain a high level of general metabolic health. Because the case fatality rate in patients free of co-morbidities (such as Type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and metabolic syndrome) is very low, COVID does not present a health risk to patients in good metabolic health.

file.png70662d_84d6b1b479d84c2eaab527a0a5256e15~mv2.webp
 
 
COVID impacts the aged, because the rate of metabolic co-morbidities is much higher in the elderly.
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janch
2 hours ago, sancho panza said:

When is COVID over?

That sounds very likely to be the case and would explain why some of us believe we've already had it.  It would also account for why some people don't catch it or have very mild symptoms.  I bet we have immunity already and will be very interested to see results of the antibody tests when one becomes available.

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Yellow_Reduced_Sticker

When misguided public opinion honors what is despicable and despises what is honorable, punishes virtue and rewards vice, encourages what is harmful and discourages what is useful, applauds falsehood and smothers truth under indifference or insult, a nation turns it's back on progress and can be restored only by the terrible lessons of catastrophe.  *Frédéric Bastiat*

 

NO MSM bollocks ...Just REAL News here:

 

 

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sancho panza
10 hours ago, Yellow_Reduced_Sticker said:

When misguided public opinion honors what is despicable and despises what is honorable, punishes virtue and rewards vice, encourages what is harmful and discourages what is useful, applauds falsehood and smothers truth under indifference or insult, a nation turns it's back on progress and can be restored only by the terrible lessons of catastrophe.  *Frédéric Bastiat*

 

NO MSM bollocks ...Just REAL News here:

 

 

SUper find YRS.

Interesting to hear them saying that any dissenters on the Lock down are being repressed.Also that some doctors are saying the extra deaths are due to the lock down causing no hospital admissions/people getting kicked off treatments for other illnesses.

Fascinating to find out where the moeny has flowed........the Vaccine Wars loom.Amazing how much money has flowed into Imperial College.

One of my new favourites Forever Computing,covered a different angle on this the other day

 

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Agent ZigZag

Imperial college recently built a huge campus complex in White City London. I guess they have to fund the cost of the works by hook or by crook

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