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TheNoSnowMan

Furloughed then fucked off

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What percentage of those furloughed do you think will actually return to their jobs after this is all over?

My employer has put about 25% of the workforce off on GOVID-80 and I seriously doubt all of them will be coming back as it's the perfect cover for redundancies. In one way, it's a good opportunity to get shot of dead wood. But on the other, those of us still working are going to be doing 2 or 3 peoples jobs for the foreseeable future.

I can easily see the unemployment figures being 4-5 million come the end of the year.

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Just now, TheNoSnowMan said:

What percentage of those furloughed do you think will actually return to their jobs after this is all over?

My employer has put about 25% of the workforce off on GOVID-80 and I seriously doubt all of them will be coming back as it's the perfect cover for redundancies. In one way, it's a good opportunity to get shot of dead wood. But on the other, those of us still working are going to be doing 2 or 3 peoples jobs for the foreseeable future.

I can easily see the unemployment figures being 4-5 million come the end of the year.

If they are dead wood, getting rid of them won't change your workload.

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1 minute ago, Happy Renting said:

If they are dead wood, getting rid of them won't change your workload.

I disagree. Most dead wood are oldies who are simply clinging on till retirement and are long past their peak productivity. If they're pushed, what little they did do is dumped onto those of us left, with no extra pay. And if several oldies are binned - it soon piles up.

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35 minutes ago, TheNoSnowMan said:

What percentage of those furloughed do you think will actually return to their jobs after this is all over?

My employer has put about 25% of the workforce off on GOVID-80 and I seriously doubt all of them will be coming back as it's the perfect cover for redundancies. In one way, it's a good opportunity to get shot of dead wood. But on the other, those of us still working are going to be doing 2 or 3 peoples jobs for the foreseeable future.

I can easily see the unemployment figures being 4-5 million come the end of the year.

Sadly, I think that your estimate of 4-5 million unemployed may prove to be on the conservative side.

Certainly, companies have been given the perfect opportunity for a spot of spring cleaning (as per Harley, on another thread).

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I think we'll see short time implemented rather than redundancy. Any firm making redundancies off the back of this will face a PR disaster, so I think a lot of people will end up on 3/4 day weeks. I've got a feeling that will include me.

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Posted (edited)

If we make redundancies it will be because our income has been decimated during our busiest time of the year. That isn't cover, it is fact and the wage bill will need to be cut. This isn't going to be throw open the doors in a few weeks time. I wish it was but it isn't. We'll be lucky to invoice 40% of what we invoiced in April 19. And I think that is very optimistic. Wages make up about 40% of our costs so furloughing is a sticking plaster at best and in cashflow terms pretty unhelpful, suspect we'll have paid 2 months wages out before a penny credit will roll in. And no other support.

Edited by SillyBilly

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1 hour ago, TheNoSnowMan said:

I disagree. Most dead wood are oldies who are simply clinging on till retirement and are long past their peak productivity. If they're pushed, what little they did do is dumped onto those of us left, with no extra pay. And if several oldies are binned - it soon piles up.

Who do you consider oldies? 

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Figured my place might try something like this. Use the cover to ship out the unproductive older workers and dump all the work on me. Luckily my kids started coughing straight off the bat and I won't be going back anytime soon. 

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As an employer I've had to reduce hours a bit, but I have every intention of upping the hours again once/if things pick up back to pre-Covid levels. I don't know why any small business employer would keep people on just for the sake of it; as I see it if they're useless to me they'd already have been out the door.

Once you start getting HR departments and jobs for the boys then yes I can see how that might change. But from a small business P.O.V I don't think it'll make much difference.

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I wonder if it might cut both ways..

People have had a lot of time to disconnect from the whirlwind of daily life and re-evaluate their positions?  Am I really happy here? Do I really owe this company anything? maybe I don’t need to take all this shit from my boss anymore?  Perhaps now is the time to try something new..

This opportunity to step back might see a lot of good guys leaving for new horizons..  maybe?

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10 minutes ago, spunko said:

As an employer I've had to reduce hours a bit, but I have every intention of upping the hours again once/if things pick up back to pre-Covid levels. I don't know why any small business employer would keep people on just for the sake of it; as I see it if they're useless to me they'd already have been out the door.

Once you start getting HR departments and jobs for the boys then yes I can see how that might change. But from a small business P.O.V I don't think it'll make much difference.

Small businesses no, wouldn't happen, larger businesses think things get very opaque quickly in terms of who actually does the work, organises the work to be done properly and on time.

@Libspero, agree, think this will be a reset of unprecedented proportions and for a lot more reasons than the obvious ones like direct furloughs/layoffs.

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9 minutes ago, Libspero said:

I wonder if it might cut both ways..

People have had a lot of time to disconnect from the whirlwind of daily life and re-evaluate their positions?  Am I really happy here? Do I really owe this company anything? maybe I don’t need to take all this shit from my boss anymore?  Perhaps now is the time to try something new..

This opportunity to step back might see a lot of good guys leaving for new horizons..  maybe?

Quite philosophical Libspero but think these few weeks at home on okay pay is actually cushioning a painful reality a few weeks down the line. What opportunities are all these people walking into? A graveyard of an economy is not a good time for a career change I'd suggest. 

 

 

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I will watch with interest the furloughing in the private sector and that in the public sector such as teachers who are I assume currently all sat at home apart from a few teaching the kids of NHS employees. I include the So-Called BBC and all the various quangos in the public sector who I suspect will all be ‘working from home’ on full pay. As others have said many from the private sector will never go back as companies go bust or downsize or see this as an opportunity to get rid of some people, but 99% of the public sector will probably come out of this unscathed. I may be wrong it could be 99.5%.

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16 minutes ago, SillyBilly said:

Quite philosophical Libspero but think these few weeks at home on okay pay is actually cushioning a painful reality a few weeks down the line. What opportunities are all these people walking into? A graveyard of an economy is not a good time for a career change I'd suggest. 

 

Assuming I actually do get the 80% then, with nothing to buy but food, in pure nominal cash terms I'm going to be better off than I would have been under normal circumstances.

Obviously it's nothing like that simple in reality.

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36 minutes ago, SillyBilly said:

Quite philosophical Libspero but think these few weeks at home on okay pay is actually cushioning a painful reality a few weeks down the line. What opportunities are all these people walking into? A graveyard of an economy is not a good time for a career change I'd suggest. 

Perhaps.

But when things pick up (world governments will print money to throw at it until it does)..  then companies will be looking to re-staff and possibly expand again.

I’m not saying everyone will suddenly find their perfect job,  but the churn could be created by both sides.  Also, most companies keep an eye out for good staff..    but good staff don’t usually hit the job market that often.

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1 hour ago, Libspero said:

Perhaps.

But when things pick up (world governments will print money to throw at it until it does)..  then companies will be looking to re-staff and possibly expand again.

I’m not saying everyone will suddenly find their perfect job,  but the churn could be created by both sides.  Also, most companies keep an eye out for good staff..    but good staff don’t usually hit the job market that often.

I would imagine that for those that have been used to being in the same job for many years, "plodding along nice and steadily" to some degree, I suspect the aftermath of this is going to have an impact akin to a cricket bat to the side of the head.

For those of us who haven't been used to doing this and have been in the thick of it for years, there could be a lot of opportunity out there.

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I wonder what impact it will have on post Brexit immigration/employment policy?....with reduced employment it is likely to go one of two ways, either it will be tightened to preserve jobs/employment opportunities for UK citizens or it will be left `as is` to increase competition for jobs and to push salary levels lower...I think the latter is more likely.

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9 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

I wonder what impact it will have on post Brexit immigration/employment policy?....with reduced employment it is likely to go one of two ways, either it will be tightened to preserve jobs/employment opportunities for UK citizens or it will be left `as is` to increase competition for jobs and to push salary levels lower...I think the latter is more likely.

I fear that you’re correct. 

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6 hours ago, spunko said:

As an employer I've had to reduce hours a bit, but I have every intention of upping the hours again once/if things pick up back to pre-Covid levels. I don't know why any small business employer would keep people on just for the sake of it; as I see it if they're useless to me they'd already have been out the door.

Once you start getting HR departments and jobs for the boys then yes I can see how that might change. But from a small business P.O.V I don't think it'll make much difference.

I've worked inside, and with, big companies, and mass redundancies were seen as necessary to get rid of low performers more often than not.  In big companies most managers are shit at actually managing, or keeping records, and once a company has a formal policy around performance and sacking, most employees who are shit can't be sacked easily as the managers haven't followed policy.

 

In a small company you can just say 'sorry, you've fucked up on X' because you are closer to the action.

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10 hours ago, TheNoSnowMan said:

I disagree. Most dead wood are oldies who are simply clinging on till retirement and are long past their peak productivity. If they're pushed, what little they did do is dumped onto those of us left, with no extra pay. And if several oldies are binned - it soon piles up.

Bollocks.

I'm rapidly approaching 55, and can do more by Monday dinner-time than any of the thick as pig-shit, mobile phone hugging youngsters can do in a fucking fortnight.

Thirty or forty years ago there might have been some truth in the idea that older workers got an easy ride - but not now.

The most useless, clueless and feckless cunts in the UK are not those on the dole as that daft twat @spygirl would have you believe, but the biffs under 30 who turn-up for work, but produce sweet fuck-all.

Older workers are keeping this fucked-up country going - and don't you ever fucking forget that...

 

XYY

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