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Frank Hovis

Sweden leaks pretty much all its data

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The dangers of "The Cloud" and outsourcing highly confidential data to save a few quid.

It's hard to thing of anything left that they've kept secret.

All home addresses of police and the armed forces in case ISIS were running out of targets.

At least they admit that it's a disaster.

 

https://www.rt.com/news/397400-sweden-citizen-data-leak-disaster/

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Obviously if you've got a tampon factory, you're gonna want live rats. Feminine hygiene product manufacturing 101.

Quote

“If a common mortal had leaked this data through this kind of negligence, the penalty would be life in prison. But not when done by the government themselves. Half a month’s pay was the harshest conceivable sentence,” Falkvinge writes, adding that “any governmental assurances to keep your data safe have as much value as a truckload of dead rats in a tampon factory.”

 

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So had nothing to do with IBM and not at fault at all. So they did not raise a flag at all about receiving the whole dataset unencrypted at all or were OK were with receiving the dataset this way?

 

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1 hour ago, mattydread said:

This is deliberate - They know the country is finished in the next few years. 

more likely symptomatic with the moral collapse of the Sweden, no one gives enough of a fuck anymore

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I know a lot on here have little faith in the public sector. My view is that this is mainly because of successive governments mantra of private good/public bad. There has also been a starvation of funding, funnelled instead to private companies, the process called 'outsourcing '. 

However, they are there to provide a service and I would argue that on the whole, they have historically been very good at this.  

The private sector is purely driven by money and so will take a different approach to getting the job done.  They will cut corners and go for the cheapest option every time. 

We see a swath of incompetently handled services that have gone spectacularly wrong.  In the background are a lot of small outsourcing contracts that never make the news but which impoverish the service received by the end user. 

The most spectacular cock up was security of the olympics. G4 messed up so badly, the army had to be brought in to take over.  How much did that all cost the taxpayer?  

Its about time this madness was stopped.  It is afterall just a way of politicians giving their mates money. 

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2 minutes ago, One percent said:

I know a lot on here have little faith in the public sector. My view is that this is mainly because of successive governments mantra of private good/public bad. There has also been a starvation of funding, funnelled instead to private companies, the process called 'outsourcing '. 

However, they are there to provide a service and I would argue that on the whole, they have historically been very good at this.  

The private sector is purely driven by money and so will take a different approach to getting the job done.  They will cut corners and go for the cheapest option every time. 

We see a swath of incompetently handled services that have gone spectacularly wrong.  In the background are a lot of small outsourcing contracts that never make the news but which impoverish the service received by the end user. 

The most spectacular cock up was security of the olympics. G4 messed up so badly, the army had to be brought in to take over.  How much did that all cost the taxpayer?  

Its about time this madness was stopped.  It is afterall just a way of politicians giving their mates money. 

Agreed, private definitely doesn't mean good and is frequently used for politicians to commit a legalised kind of fraud, but that doesn't mean the public sector isn't a clusterfuck. It will remain so until a) it is possible to fire people who are crap, and b) the culture of actually doing so takes root. So probably not in my lifetime.

 

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1 minute ago, swissy_fit said:

Agreed, private definitely doesn't mean good and is frequently used for politicians to commit a legalised kind of fraud, but that doesn't mean the public sector isn't a clusterfuck. It will remain so until a) it is possible to fire people who are crap, and b) the culture of actually doing so takes root. So probably not in my lifetime.

 

True. I'm not saying it is perfect. I feel the main problem is the constant undermining and the shifting of goalposts by central government.

another issue is that They do not want strong democratic processes out in the shires and have done all they can to remove the mechanisms of democracy from boroughs and councils. 

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4 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Agreed, private definitely doesn't mean good and is frequently used for politicians to commit a legalised kind of fraud, but that doesn't mean the public sector isn't a clusterfuck. It will remain so until a) it is possible to fire people who are crap, and b) the culture of actually doing so takes root. So probably not in my lifetime.

 

With politicians in charge they will probably fire the competent and keep their bozo mates.

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5 minutes ago, One percent said:

I know a lot on here have little faith in the public sector. My view is that this is mainly because of successive governments mantra of private good/public bad. There has also been a starvation of funding, funnelled instead to private companies, the process called 'outsourcing '. 

However, they are there to provide a service and I would argue that on the whole, they have historically been very good at this.  

The private sector is purely driven by money and so will take a different approach to getting the job done.  They will cut corners and go for the cheapest option every time. 

We see a swath of incompetently handled services that have gone spectacularly wrong.  In the background are a lot of small outsourcing contracts that never make the news but which impoverish the service received by the end user. 

The most spectacular cock up was security of the olympics. G4 messed up so badly, the army had to be brought in to take over.  How much did that all cost the taxpayer?  

Its about time this madness was stopped.  It is afterall just a way of politicians giving their mates money. 

It has been this but, as someone who ran several highly successful outsourcing contracts (I was providing them, and took pride in giving a good service) it can certainly work very well and be much cheaper than trying to do everything internally.

What you need to do is appoint very early on to the council / civil service people like me (not that I'm going to do another job) who know outsourcing from the other side and can therefore agree the correct contract (penalty clauses, agreed change management processes) and will permanently monitor the contract, spot and insist upon correction of any deviations, and enforce all penalty fines.

Why they fail time after time is that councils IME do not do this; but think that having outsourced they have devolved responsibility and sit back.  Whereupon it fails.

Where I have seen it done well, and it has been done at times, they have had "a right pain" managing it who will jump into his car and go and pull them up about the slightest slippage.  It works well then but you do need to put into your costings one senior full time contract manager.

Most don't.

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

It has been this but, as someone who ran several highly successful outsourcing contracts (I was providing them, and took pride in giving a good service) it can certainly work very well and be much cheaper than trying to do everything internally.

What you need to do is appoint very early on to the council / civil service people like me (not that I'm going to do another job) who know outsourcing from the other side and can therefore agree the correct contract (penalty clauses, agreed change management processes) and will permanently monitor the contract, spot and insist upon correction of any deviations, and enforce all penalty fines.

Why they fail time after time is that councils IME do not do this; but think that having outsourced they have devolved responsibility and sit back.  Whereupon it fails.

Where I have seen it done well, and it has been done at times, they have had "a right pain" managing it who will jump into his car and go and pull them up about the slightest slippage.  It works well then but you do need to put into your costings one senior full time contract manager.

Most don't.

Perfectly described, thanks. Outsourcing in private sector suffers the same issues.

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

It has been this but, as someone who ran several highly successful outsourcing contracts (I was providing them, and took pride in giving a good service) it can certainly work very well and be much cheaper than trying to do everything internally.

What you need to do is appoint very early on to the council / civil service people like me (not that I'm going to do another job) who know outsourcing from the other side and can therefore agree the correct contract (penalty clauses, agreed change management processes) and will permanently monitor the contract, spot and insist upon correction of any deviations, and enforce all penalty fines.

Why they fail time after time is that councils IME do not do this; but think that having outsourced they have devolved responsibility and sit back.  Whereupon it fails.

Where I have seen it done well, and it has been done at times, they have had "a right pain" managing it who will jump into his car and go and pull them up about the slightest slippage.  It works well then but you do need to put into your costings one senior full time contract manager.

Most don't.

I'm guessing Frank that you are a small company rather than a massive organisation with fingers in lots of pies. The biggest mess, economies of scale, is with the big boys and the big contracts then it can go spectacularly wrong.  The prison service we discussed yesterday is a case in point. 

At a local level, in the borough I live, we had street cleaners employed directly by the council.  Always around and the streets cleaned. It got outsourced. The men were replaced by a machine which can't get round all the parked cars. The machine is hardly seen. The streets are a mess. A lot are treelined so in the autumn, the lack of street cleaning really does show.  Piles and piles of litter and leaves. Meanwhile, the contractor will be getting paid shed loads and those that cleaned the streets probably sitting on the dole.

madness 

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13 minutes ago, One percent said:

I know a lot on here have little faith in the public sector. My view is that this is mainly because of successive governments mantra of private good/public bad. There has also been a starvation of funding, funnelled instead to private companies, the process called 'outsourcing '. 

However, they are there to provide a service and I would argue that on the whole, they have historically been very good at this.  

The private sector is purely driven by money and so will take a different approach to getting the job done.  They will cut corners and go for the cheapest option every time. 

We see a swath of incompetently handled services that have gone spectacularly wrong.  In the background are a lot of small outsourcing contracts that never make the news but which impoverish the service received by the end user. 

The most spectacular cock up was security of the olympics. G4 messed up so badly, the army had to be brought in to take over.  How much did that all cost the taxpayer?  

Its about time this madness was stopped.  It is afterall just a way of politicians giving their mates money. 

I don't think many here are particularly swayed by government messaging.

It comes down to a pretty straightforward formula. If you are buying a product or service for yourself you get the very best quality at your preferred price point. If you are spending slush fund money on yourself, you prioritise quality. If you are spending slush fund money on others you prioritise price and don't give a shit about quality.

That's why poor children's school meals will always be cut before the parliamentary wine cellar budget.

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4 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Perfectly described, thanks. Outsourcing in private sector suffers the same issues.

Cheers :)

Natural human laziness and ego swinging means managers say they're responsible for huge outsourcing contracts but actually do nothing about them except try to shift the blame when they go wrong.

1 minute ago, One percent said:

I'm guessing Frank that you are a small company rather than a massive organisation with fingers in lots of pies. The biggest mess, economies of scale, is with the big boys and the big contracts then it can go spectacularly wrong.  The prison service we discussed yesterday is a case in point. 

At a local level, in the borough I live, we had street cleaners employed directly by the council.  Always around and the streets cleaned. It got outsourced. The men were replaced by a machine which can't get round all the parked cars. The machine is hardly seen. The streets are a mess. A lot are treelined so in the autumn, the lack of street cleaning really does show.  Piles and piles of litter and leaves. Meanwhile, the contractor will be getting paid shed loads and those that cleaned the streets probably sitting on the dole.

madness 

Reasonable guess but no.  One of the biggest.

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28 minutes ago, One percent said:

I know a lot on here have little faith in the public sector. My view is that this is mainly because of successive governments mantra of private good/public bad. There has also been a starvation of funding, funnelled instead to private companies, the process called 'outsourcing '. 

However, they are there to provide a service and I would argue that on the whole, they have historically been very good at this.  

The private sector is purely driven by money and so will take a different approach to getting the job done.  They will cut corners and go for the cheapest option every time. 

We see a swath of incompetently handled services that have gone spectacularly wrong.  In the background are a lot of small outsourcing contracts that never make the news but which impoverish the service received by the end user. 

The most spectacular cock up was security of the olympics. G4 messed up so badly, the army had to be brought in to take over.  How much did that all cost the taxpayer?  

Its about time this madness was stopped.  It is afterall just a way of politicians giving their mates money. 

Private sector purely driven by money is a fallacy, for the majority it is driven by customers, customer demands, customer service - fail any of those and you are in trouble. Try selling a product or service that nobody wants int he open market - you will have no sales and no money, so saying money drives the process is putting the cart before the horse. Private companies only have money when they provide something that the public is willing to pay for Any company wishing to service in the long term has the customer and anything they want to provide to the public at the top of the pile. The internet, availability of reviews on pretty much every company working in the open market has had a pretty brutal effect on any companies not satisfying their customer base, even down to individual trades where personal recommendations and sites like checkatrade will expose failings pretty damned quickly and destroy reputations built over years.

Government contracts, well that's nothing thing completely. Governments make customers out of us and they often make dreadful buying decisions, often as not it seems to make no difference to subsequent buying decisions and any sop to the market ruling those decisions disappears.  There is a whole sector of hanger on companies reliant on the state (our money). One reason to not have the government run things, they are generally not directly or personally responsible for their own actions and have no skin in the game.

Edited by onlyme

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11 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Cheers :)

Natural human laziness and ego swinging means managers say they're responsible for huge outsourcing contracts but actually do nothing about them except try to shift the blame when they go wrong.

Reasonable guess but no.  One of the biggest.

The CEO of G4?   o.O

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3 hours ago, mattydread said:

This is deliberate - They know the country is finished in the next few years. 

For a country that proudly discloses everyone's pay, I can't see them thinking this is a major issue.

It's only a matter of time before it happens here anyway. Theresa's ultimate aim perhaps?

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9 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

Seems a tad too convenient to me. If you want to now target all the key police, military, etc, in order to take over Sweden you know exactly where they are.

 

Remember that police couple in Paris that got head chopped?

 

http://www.lemonde.fr/police-justice/article/2016/06/13/un-policier-tue-devant-chez-lui-de-plusieurs-coups-de-couteau-dans-les-yvelines_4949770_1653578.html

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