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blobloblob

Government not buying PPE

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5 minutes ago, blobloblob said:

Maybe I just don't understand how these things work but why is it the government buys PPE for the NHS? Why doesn't the NHS buy it for themselves?

The NHS can do no wrong. It is heresy to even suggest the NHS has failed to provide PPE for staff. It's clearly the fault of the Tories that the NHS has no PPE.

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Posted (edited)

was relieved to see Matt HanCOCK reassuring the public that a shortage of PPE hadn't contributed to the deaths of 19 NHS staff but saddened that he stopped short of going to a hospital and standing next to someone gasping for breath without a face mask on.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/11/matt-hancock-reveals-deaths-of-19-nhs-workers-amid-ppe-row

'The health secretary, Matt Hancock, has revealed that 19 UK health workers have died after contracting coronavirus, amid further backlash over his request that NHS staff do not overuse protective equipment.

Hancock said on Saturday he was unaware of any link between the deaths and a lack of personal protective equipment (PPE)'

Edited by Zanu Bob

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1 hour ago, Zanu Bob said:

was relieved to see Matt HanCOCK reassuring the public that a shortage of PPE hadn't contributed to the deaths of 19 NHS staff but saddened that he stopped short of going to a hospital and standing next to someone gasping for breath without a face mask on.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/11/matt-hancock-reveals-deaths-of-19-nhs-workers-amid-ppe-row

'The health secretary, Matt Hancock, has revealed that 19 UK health workers have died after contracting coronavirus, amid further backlash over his request that NHS staff do not overuse protective equipment.

Hancock said on Saturday he was unaware of any link between the deaths and a lack of personal protective equipment (PPE)'

How these people can actually say such obvious shite as that I've no idea. 

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7 hours ago, Carl Fimble said:

How these people can actually say such obvious shite as that I've no idea. 

Well ....

the So-Called BBC list

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52242856?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/coronavirus&link_location=live-reporting-story

A lot of those seem to be people who worked for the NHS who caught the disease outside of their work.

Im mean, a urologists will hardly be on an ICU ward.

I would guess a lot of the deaths are died with c19 present rather than the cause.

And PPE doesnt help when a lot of NHS workers are so slack on hygiene and process - see superbugs.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Carl Fimble said:

OUR NHS, not "the".

How very dare you!

Bring back the Gulags Carl.That's the only way to deal with thought criminals like that.

Having said that,Mrs B in a rare moment of hiumour,asked me how Boris intended to save the NHS if it didn't have any PPE.

I had to let immigrant Mrs B know,in no uncertain terms,that she'd better not utter that critiscism in the queue at the nursery or she might get lynched.

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Looks the country has ran out of anesthetic drugs now along with PPE and tests. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52150861

You couldn't make this shit up. Its like we are living on the moon and dependent of China and India for deliveries to keep alive, only the rocket is stuck on the launch pad. 

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47 minutes ago, Green Devil said:

Looks the country has ran out of anesthetic drugs now along with PPE and tests. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52150861

You couldn't make this shit up. Its like we are living on the moon and dependent of China and India for deliveries to keep alive, only the rocket is stuck on the launch pad. 

Quote

One consultant has told the So-Called BBC that supplies are "running low" and alternatives are already being used in intensive care in the Midlands.

Does that mean have a lemon to suck on whilst we cut you open?

Anyonw who goes anywhere near an NHS hospital these days is mad.

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1. Doctors from all disciplines are working coronoavirus.

2. Services are continuing eg for the cardiology registrar on news this morning working Corona but also Normal services for people with heart conditions. 

3. Please wash your hands. And throw away tons of plastic visors. If they're running out then they need to look at stopping the one use plastic game. 

4. Massive recruitment time. Tons of interviews being done for extra staff. Spoke to someone in NHS recruitment yesterday who says she's been really busy interviewing online. No pyjamas on show for anyone they've interviewed.

6. Drugs running low scare story. Bet it's labour supporters putting the story out. Ends with no patients are at risk and stocks running low but not enough to hurt patients. Scare mongering. Evil bastards scare mongering. Should be illegal.

7. Which government departments are responsible for ordering of NHS supplies and drugs. Which of the half a million administrators of NHS are responsible for checking the government had ordered the right stuff? Oh wait it's all done on the NHS. If they want to say they've not had enough money to buy stuff then that'd be different perhaps but it's a sink hole of incompetence finance wise. One of the GM trusts ignored the stuff that should be billed to outside places and pays it themselves. Because they're morons in charge. 

 

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1 hour ago, Green Devil said:

Looks the country has ran out of anesthetic drugs now along with PPE and tests. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52150861

You couldn't make this shit up. Its like we are living on the moon and dependent of China and India for deliveries to keep alive, only the rocket is stuck on the launch pad. 

If only our NHS could employ millions of wimmin, who could walk around with clipboards, wearing ditzy prints, an sort this shit out.....

2 hours ago, Green Devil said:

Looks the country has ran out of anesthetic drugs now along with PPE and tests. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52150861

You couldn't make this shit up. Its like we are living on the moon and dependent of China and India for deliveries to keep alive, only the rocket is stuck on the launch pad. 

Local shortages...

If only there was a fleet of big ficking Van's with 'NHS' on the side.....

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57 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

1. Doctors from all disciplines are working coronoavirus.

2. Services are continuing eg for the cardiology registrar on news this morning working Corona but also Normal services for people with heart conditions. 

3. Please wash your hands. And throw away tons of plastic visors. If they're running out then they need to look at stopping the one use plastic game. 

4. Massive recruitment time. Tons of interviews being done for extra staff. Spoke to someone in NHS recruitment yesterday who says she's been really busy interviewing online. No pyjamas on show for anyone they've interviewed.

6. Drugs running low scare story. Bet it's labour supporters putting the story out. Ends with no patients are at risk and stocks running low but not enough to hurt patients. Scare mongering. Evil bastards scare mongering. Should be illegal.

7. Which government departments are responsible for ordering of NHS supplies and drugs. Which of the half a million administrators of NHS are responsible for checking the government had ordered the right stuff? Oh wait it's all done on the NHS. If they want to say they've not had enough money to buy stuff then that'd be different perhaps but it's a sink hole of incompetence finance wise. One of the GM trusts ignored the stuff that should be billed to outside places and pays it themselves. Because they're morons in charge. 

 

If only ukgov could give NHS 10 billion to put together a digital communication system...

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UK first Case Jan 31st

UK first death March 5th

NHS Select committe March 17th said they had PPE stock but there was a distribution problem and were sending it out from weekend of March 22nd. 

Way loo late....

The Health and Social Care select committee session on the preparations for the coronavirus with evidence from Sir Simon Stevens, chief executive of NHS England, Professor Keith Willett, director for Acute Care, NHS England, Amanda Pritchard, chief operating officer, NHS England and NHS Improvement.

1 hour 9 mins in for 10 minutes

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000gzw1/select-committees-coronavirus-committee

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2 hours ago, sarahbell said:

 

7. Which government departments are responsible for ordering of NHS supplies and drugs. Which of the half a million administrators of NHS are responsible for checking the government had ordered the right stuff? Oh wait it's all done on the NHS. If they want to say they've not had enough money to buy stuff then that'd be different perhaps but it's a sink hole of incompetence finance wise. One of the GM trusts ignored the stuff that should be billed to outside places and pays it themselves. Because they're morons in charge. 

 

I agree that that's where the problem lies.

Let speculate on a broader perspective to see how the shortage of PPE arose. UK manufacturers are reported to have contacted the NHS supply team offering to produce PPE. The supply team would have looked at their preferred supplier list to see whether they were on it. If not then they would be asked to go through the tender and procurement process, I believe its done online? 

Yes I've just looked and it is very complex. They do seem to have covered the possibility of a serious event disrupting normal supply arrangements.

 

How would a serious incident affect the service to NHS organisations?

Throughout any incident the primary focus is upon both the implementation of business contingency arrangements in order to maintain supplies to the NHS and to return NHS Supply Chain to normal operations within the Maximum Tolerable Outage (MTO).

In the event of a particularly serious incident then the most senior levels of command will be initiated. This command level will make strategic decisions regarding management of the incident, scope of service provision, and the deployment of resources, as well as being responsible for liaising with other agencies including the DHSC.

 

I wonder why their plans didn't work quickly enough?

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7 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

I agree that that's where the problem lies.

Let speculate on a broader perspective to see how the shortage of PPE arose. UK manufacturers are reported to have contacted the NHS supply team offering to produce PPE. The supply team would have looked at their preferred supplier list to see whether they were on it. If not then they would be asked to go through the tender and procurement process, I believe its done online? 

You're correct up to the bold.

After that, what happens next depends on who bothered to come into work, if the person with sign off authority is on long term suck leave or, if as part of the rainbow name effort, M'Xhsoo from Zimbabwe who's now called Dave can read English and use a computer.

PPE is non perishable stuff in boxes. You have a store room, you monitor its usase, you look at the last 12 months figure and reorder when you've hit 3 months stock left.

This is a  idiot level stock control. Something most companies have entirely automated I.e the computer automagically re-orders.

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, spygirl said:

 

PPE is non perishable stuff in boxes. You have a store room, you monitor its usase, you look at the last 12 months figure and reorder when you've hit 3 months stock left.

This is a  idiot level stock control. Something most companies have entirely automated I.e the computer automagically re-orders.

 

 

 

You missed out the bit where someone has to look at outside events to predict whether there will be a surge in demand in response to an external event. 

That is what M'Xhsoo from Zimbabwe's manager is paid for. 

From the glimpse I had at the NHS Supply website there is a lot of emphasis of cost savings. 

https://www.supplychain.nhs.uk/

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13 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

You missed out the bit where someone has to look at outside events to predict whether there will be a surge in demand in response to an external event. 

That is what M'Xhsoo from Zimbabwe's manager is paid for. 

From the glimpse I had at the NHS Supply website there is a lot of emphasis of cost savings. 

https://www.supplychain.nhs.uk/

From the link

https://www.supplychain.nhs.uk/news-article/nhs-supply-chain-shortlisted-for-uk-national-go-award/

The PTP, a complex, multi-million-pound programme, and one of the largest public-sector programmes of this type, was created in response to Lord Carter’s report into efficiency and productivity in the NHS. This identified unwarranted variation in procurement across the NHS, resulting in the need to improve operational efficiencies to help transform a fragmented procurement landscape.

The new model, fully implemented in early 2019 consists of eleven specialist buying functions, known as Category Towers, delivering clinical consumables, capital medical equipment and non-medical products such as food and office solutions. Two enabling services for logistics and supporting technology – overseen by, Supply Chain Coordination Limited (SCCL), a government-owned limited company.

The Procurement Transformation Programme is widely regarding as flagship across Government having previously won the Best Commercial Project at the 2019 Government Commercial Function Awards. We have been recognised again by being selected as a finalist at the UK National GO Awards for Project of the Year alongside other prestigious local and central government projects. It is a testimony to everyone involved in the successful transformation of the Supply Chain organisation that colleagues across the public sector hold us in such high regard.James Blacklock, Department of Health and Social Care Procurement Transformation Programme Manager

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1 hour ago, Democorruptcy said:

UK first Case Jan 31st

UK first death March 5th

NHS Select committe March 17th said they had PPE stock but there was a distribution problem and were sending it out from weekend of March 22nd. 

Way loo late....

The Health and Social Care select committee session on the preparations for the coronavirus with evidence from Sir Simon Stevens, chief executive of NHS England, Professor Keith Willett, director for Acute Care, NHS England, Amanda Pritchard, chief operating officer, NHS England and NHS Improvement.

1 hour 9 mins in for 10 minutes

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000gzw1/select-committees-coronavirus-committee

Fascinating. So here is a politician asking 3 of the most senior people in the NHS if they have enough PPE and being told that yes, they do. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, blobloblob said:

Fascinating. So here is a politician asking 3 of the most senior people in the NHS if they have enough PPE and being told that yes, they do. 

Don’t tell the So-Called BBC.

Apparently it’s all Matt Hancocks fault.

This is why all those government/media press conferences are just so much kabuki theatre. The people who run the country are not the people the media routinely claim are running the country.

Edited by Virgil Caine

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6 hours ago, spygirl said:

Well ....

the So-Called BBC list

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52242856?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/coronavirus&link_location=live-reporting-story

A lot of those seem to be people who worked for the NHS who caught the disease outside of their work.

Im mean, a urologists will hardly be on an ICU ward.

I would guess a lot of the deaths are died with c19 present rather than the cause.

And PPE doesnt help when a lot of NHS workers are so slack on hygiene and process - see superbugs.

 

 

 

Let's run the maths.

  • The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 20 March 2020 (week 12) was 10,645; this represents a decrease of 374 deaths registered compared with the previous week (week 11).
  • The average number of deaths for the corresponding week over the previous five years was 10,573; this means that the overall number of deaths in week 12 of 2020 was slightly higher than previous years.
  • Of the deaths registered in week 12, 103 mentioned novel coronavirus (COVID-19), which is 1.0% of all deaths.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths

 

For arguments sake let's say in 4 weeks there will be around 42K deaths. Out of a population of 59M in England & Wales

That means for an employer like the NHS (1.2M staff) there should be ((42,000/59,000,000)*1,200,00)  = 854 deaths

Of those 854 deaths, 19 were Covid-related (no idea if they died with/of). That's still only 2% of deaths for NHS staff that are Covid-related, compared to 1% for the general population

I suppose you could spin that to say NHS staff are twice as likely to die from Covid than the general populous, but there could be all sorts of factors in the deaths that contribute to those 19 staff. Were they retirees with poor health that had been drafted? Were they more stressed and anxious due to Covid in the days leading up to their deaths? 

 

Also 19 is a funny number considering the thing that killed them. Just saying.

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4 minutes ago, Thombleached said:

Let's run the maths.

  • The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 20 March 2020 (week 12) was 10,645; this represents a decrease of 374 deaths registered compared with the previous week (week 11).
  • The average number of deaths for the corresponding week over the previous five years was 10,573; this means that the overall number of deaths in week 12 of 2020 was slightly higher than previous years.
  • Of the deaths registered in week 12, 103 mentioned novel coronavirus (COVID-19), which is 1.0% of all deaths.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths

 

For arguments sake let's say in 4 weeks there will be around 42K deaths. Out of a population of 59M in England & Wales

That means for an employer like the NHS (1.2M staff) there should be ((42,000/59,000,000)*1,200,00)  = 854 deaths

Of those 854 deaths, 19 were Covid-related (no idea if they died with/of). That's still only 2% of deaths for NHS staff that are Covid-related, compared to 1% for the general population

I suppose you could spin that to say NHS staff are twice as likely to die from Covid than the general populous, but there could be all sorts of factors in the deaths that contribute to those 19 staff. Were they retirees with poor health that had been drafted? Were they more stressed and anxious due to Covid in the days leading up to their deaths? 

 

Also 19 is a funny number considering the thing that killed them. Just saying.

Indeed.

NHS 'deaths' are down to there bring so many of the fuckers rather than the job being similar to Deadley Catch.

Theres no mention if the virus was caught during work. Some looked to have caught ut whilst 'self isolating'

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2 hours ago, spygirl said:

From the link

https://www.supplychain.nhs.uk/news-article/nhs-supply-chain-shortlisted-for-uk-national-go-award/

The PTP, a complex, multi-million-pound programme, and one of the largest public-sector programmes of this type, was created in response to Lord Carter’s report into efficiency and productivity in the NHS. This identified unwarranted variation in procurement across the NHS, resulting in the need to improve operational efficiencies to help transform a fragmented procurement landscape.

The new model, fully implemented in early 2019 consists of eleven specialist buying functions, known as Category Towers, delivering clinical consumables, capital medical equipment and non-medical products such as food and office solutions. Two enabling services for logistics and supporting technology – overseen by, Supply Chain Coordination Limited (SCCL), a government-owned limited company.

The Procurement Transformation Programme is widely regarding as flagship across Government having previously won the Best Commercial Project at the 2019 Government Commercial Function Awards. We have been recognised again by being selected as a finalist at the UK National GO Awards for Project of the Year alongside other prestigious local and central government projects. It is a testimony to everyone involved in the successful transformation of the Supply Chain organisation that colleagues across the public sector hold us in such high regard.James Blacklock, Department of Health and Social Care Procurement Transformation Programme Manager

Sounds really, really, really good. 

What went wrong?

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