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The economy is totally and utterly fucked


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Have you ever seen any of the contracts these places make the end client sign ?

More or less - one giant caveat that says if anything isn't right it's fuck all to do with us and thanks for the money. 

That's honestly just a tiny exaggeration.

Last place I was -  they got some alleged EU vat expert in at £3k per day iirc and their conclusion was more waffle than something you put ice cream and bananas on xD

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On 31/07/2020 at 10:54, JoeDavola said:

This is why these kinds of consultancy companies are so often a mugs game as an employee; they charge the organization you're working with £800 a day or whatever for you 

..

Unfortunatley it can be difficult as an indpendent contractor to get the same kind of work without the backing of these companies.

Hence the emergence of the new breed of boutique contractor only consultancies of the type I usually work for. 

The consultancy presents a corporate facade to the client, lands the gig, signs half a dozen contractors to build the team and provides a thin layer of management on top.

Consultancy makes a lowish margin (say 20 - 30%) but bears relatively little risk or overheads (doesn't have to pay people to be on the bench for example, doesnt need much "haitch arrr" and other corporate fluff). Client is happy as they are paying a day rate at the low end of the scale compared to the big consultancies (say £700-£800 / day) and getting getting much more more experienced and higher skilled devs. Contractor is happy as hes getting £500-£600 / day and all the corporate and management shite is taken care of by the consultancy.

 

Edited by goldbug9999
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7 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

Hence the emergence of the new breed of boutique contractor only consultancies of the type I usually work for. 

The consultancy presents a corporate facade to the client, lands the gig, signs half a dozen contractors to build the team and provides a thin layer of management on top.

Consultancy makes a lowish margin (say 20 - 30%) but bears relatively little risk or overheads (doesn't have to pay people to be on the bench for example). Client is happy as they are paying a day rate at the low end of the scale compared to the big consultancies (say £700-£800 / day) and getting getting much more more experienced and higher skilled devs. Contractor is happy as hes getting £500-£600 / day and all the corporate and management shite is taken care of by the consultancy.

That's really interesting; very glad to see that's happening.

I remember at one point when I was working for the consultancy realizing that there was really only 5 devs doing the work, supporting the salaries of twice as many people all the way up the chain, all earning more than them. It was ridiculous. (the place was bigger than that of course but I'm talking about the ratio of productive to unproductive people for one 'client')

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2 hours ago, ccc said:

Have you ever seen any of the contracts these places make the end client sign ?

More or less - one giant caveat that says if anything isn't right it's fuck all to do with us and thanks for the money. 

That's honestly just a tiny exaggeration.

Last place I was -  they got some alleged EU vat expert in at £3k per day iirc and their conclusion was more waffle than something you put ice cream and bananas on xD

My experience has been that a company engages some outside consultants to interview all the staff about the things that have been pissing them off for years and all the things that they have said would fix it over the years that have been ignored by the senior management.  The consultants then write it all down for the senior management to read and consider.  If the solutions are simple and cheap they get implemented and if they involve doing things that disrupt the status quo then they get ignored again.  Wait three years and then repeat the exercise.  Throw in a couple of "restructures" at the same time until you eventually end up back at the place you started from.  Does everyone know this and just play along or do people really think this sort of stuff has genuine benefits?  I'm never quite sure.

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1 hour ago, goldbug9999 said:

Hence the emergence of the new breed of boutique contractor only consultancies of the type I usually work for. 

The consultancy presents a corporate facade to the client, lands the gig, signs half a dozen contractors to build the team and provides a thin layer of management on top.

Consultancy makes a lowish margin (say 20 - 30%) but bears relatively little risk or overheads (doesn't have to pay people to be on the bench for example, doesnt need much "haitch arrr" and other corporate fluff). Client is happy as they are paying a day rate at the low end of the scale compared to the big consultancies (say £700-£800 / day) and getting getting much more more experienced and higher skilled devs. Contractor is happy as hes getting £500-£600 / day and all the corporate and management shite is taken care of by the consultancy.

 

Engineering have been doing that for years. One project limited company, do the job then shut it down to avoid any comebacks.

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2 hours ago, goldbug9999 said:

Hence the emergence of the new breed of boutique contractor only consultancies of the type I usually work for. 

The consultancy presents a corporate facade to the client, lands the gig, signs half a dozen contractors to build the team and provides a thin layer of management on top.

Consultancy makes a lowish margin (say 20 - 30%) but bears relatively little risk or overheads (doesn't have to pay people to be on the bench for example, doesnt need much "haitch arrr" and other corporate fluff). Client is happy as they are paying a day rate at the low end of the scale compared to the big consultancies (say £700-£800 / day) and getting getting much more more experienced and higher skilled devs. Contractor is happy as hes getting £500-£600 / day and all the corporate and management shite is taken care of by the consultancy.

 

This is kind of similar to how I work, though mostly I or a friend fronts it then  we get other friends we know are good to complete the team and deliver the project

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2 hours ago, Option5 said:

Engineering have been doing that for years. One project limited company, do the job then shut it down to avoid any comebacks.

Thats not what I described though, the consultancy companies are ongoing concerns that build brands and reputations.

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2 hours ago, stop_the_craziness said:

My experience has been that a company engages some outside consultants to interview all the staff about the things that have been pissing them off for years and all the things that they have said would fix it over the years that have been ignored by the senior management.  The consultants then write it all down for the senior management to read and consider.  If the solutions are simple and cheap they get implemented and if they involve doing things that disrupt the status quo then they get ignored again.  Wait three years and then repeat the exercise.  Throw in a couple of "restructures" at the same time until you eventually end up back at the place you started from.  Does everyone know this and just play along or do people really think this sort of stuff has genuine benefits?  I'm never quite sure.

That's a different situation. This was a situation where some "expert" advice was required for a project underway. 

I honestly think they just made it up and took their money. 

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14 hours ago, ccc said:

That's a different situation. This was a situation where some "expert" advice was required for a project underway. 

I honestly think they just made it up and took their money. 

There was a story going around that (at about the time they changed name from Andersen’s to Accenture) they had delivered a final report for a £2m job, and had just delivered a report they had done for a completely different firm just with a find/replace on the company name. Fucked up though because through one entire section of report there was a misspelling of the previous company’s name. £2m for a find and replace, and they couldn’t be arsed to even proof read the final copy.

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The August furlough changes don't do much?

  • June and July: No change to current set-up. The state will continue to pay 80 per cent of salaries, plus National Insurance and pension contributions as it does now. Employers are not required to pay anything.

  • August: The state will pay 80 per cent of wages, up to a cap of £2,500/mth. Employers will now have to pay National Insurance and pension contributions.

  • September: The state will pay 70 per cent of wages, up to a cap of £2,190 per month. Employers will have to pay National Insurance and pension contributions, plus 10 per cent of wages to make up 80 per cent of the total, up to a cap of £2,500 per month.

  • October: The state will pay 60 per cent of wages, up to a cap of £1,875 per month. Employers will then need to pay National Insurance and pension contributions, plus 20 per cent of wages to make up 80 per cent of the total, up to a cap of £2,500 per month.

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10 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

The August furlough changes don't do much?

  • June and July: No change to current set-up. The state will continue to pay 80 per cent of salaries, plus National Insurance and pension contributions as it does now. Employers are not required to pay anything.

  • August: The state will pay 80 per cent of wages, up to a cap of £2,500/mth. Employers will now have to pay National Insurance and pension contributions.

  • September: The state will pay 70 per cent of wages, up to a cap of £2,190 per month. Employers will have to pay National Insurance and pension contributions, plus 10 per cent of wages to make up 80 per cent of the total, up to a cap of £2,500 per month.

  • October: The state will pay 60 per cent of wages, up to a cap of £1,875 per month. Employers will then need to pay National Insurance and pension contributions, plus 20 per cent of wages to make up 80 per cent of the total, up to a cap of £2,500 per month.

So it isn't anything like actually 'ending' in October then?

Or do those October changes only apply to the month of October after which it is completely ending?

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