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The economy is totally and utterly fucked


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The Generation Game
44 minutes ago, Lightly Toasted said:

I haven't had a Burger King since their #justsayin milkshake tweet:

https://www.asa.org.uk/rulings/bkuk-group-ltd-G19-1021249.html

They would not have taken the same stance with a remainer politician being physically attacked by leavers (if such a thing would even have happened).

TBH I probably wouldn't have had one anyway :D

 

 

I didn't remember that they had previous to their "women belong in the kitchen" tweet earlier this year. No wonder they all shut down. 

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eight
1 hour ago, Chewing Grass said:

Burn HS2, nobody needs to get anywhere fast anymore, if you need to do something fast its done on 'teams' etc, if you are travelling somewhere for pleasure up to 100 mph is fast enough, at least you can look out of the window without feeling sick, unlike at 150mph plus.

Yep, rail should be for dirt cheap mass travel.

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Rare Bear
9 minutes ago, eight said:

Yep, rail should be for dirt cheap mass travel.

In my school days we were told that the cheapest form of transport was canal followed by rail and finally road. Air transport was so expensive it wasn't even to be considered. This would have been in the late 50s.

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BoSon
30 minutes ago, Rare Bear said:

In my school days we were told that the cheapest form of transport was canal followed by rail and finally road. Air transport was so expensive it wasn't even to be considered. This would have been in the late 50s.

They forgot the #1 cheapest form of travel, shank's pony. xD

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Funn3r
1 hour ago, eight said:

Yep, rail should be for dirt cheap mass travel.

I mentioned Tashkent to a Russian girl as a place I always thought sounded mysterious and exotic. "Oh we used to go there for the school holidays, only six days by train from Moscow" 

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ninjaborrower
On 02/05/2021 at 12:06, Roger_Mellie said:

I don't think so. 

I often regale my kids with tales of my childhood getting dragged round town to stand in queues for everything... Town Hall for the rates, YEB for the electricity, Gas Board for the gas, Radio Rentals for the tele and video, post office for the TV license and on and on and on. 

None of that shit anymore.

Yes, you just spend hours on the phone talking to someone with a accent that cant be understood, or spend hours on the laptop spending as much time but with out the fresh air,

 Yes, mobiles and email are so great,, your boss can hassle you in the middle of the night and even when you are on holiday, 

 

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Bien Pensant
11 hours ago, Lightly Toasted said:

Hating corrupt capitalism and globalism actually makes you right-wing (you want proper free markets not monopolistic/rigged/centrally-planned ones; you support the nation state).

It's also possible to believe (or at least hope) that free markets deliver social justice and do away with the "need" for unions. I'd go as far as saying that unions (guilds) are incompatible with free markets, but they might sometimes be useful as a sticking plaster to cover up the social injury caused by rigged markets.

Agree, but, being contrarian again, I would say that calling those who are for free markets ‘right wing’ is a misnomer. They are individualists, they advocate that there is no greater good than that of the individual because a ‘common good’ can only ever really be what pleases the individuals at the top of society.

Socialism is every bit as bad as what Marx called ‘capitalism’ (which I would call ‘corporatism’) because, just like his caricature of ‘capitalism’, it hands power to a small minority at the top.

Materially alone (which I regard as least important), Comrade Stalin had several planes, at least two yachts, at least three mansions and several hand built copies of American Packard cars. Yet, as a good communist, he probably never had a kopek in his pocket, he was able to simply order the comrades to produce them for him.

Individualists are always lumped in with the right wing because they’ve tended to do better on that side. That is because conservatives need their money to fight the socialists’ broader appeal. But, they are neither leftist nor rightist and are viewed with suspicion by both camps.

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Bien Pensant
10 hours ago, Popuplights said:

Yep, it will all be nationalised in the end. And in any case, why the fuck would you sit on a train, being forced to wear a mask when you can drive yourself. 

Isn't it effectively nationalized already?

Am I wrong in thinking that the state owns not just the infrastructure but the rolling stock which it leases back to the Train Operating Companies to run up and down?

All the TOCs have to do is to hand back the keys, or threaten to do so, and the state will have to come up with a new arrangement.

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Bien Pensant
10 hours ago, Chewing Grass said:

Burn HS2, nobody needs to get anywhere fast anymore, if you need to do something fast its done on 'teams' etc, if you are travelling somewhere for pleasure up to 100 mph is fast enough, at least you can look out of the window without feeling sick, unlike at 150mph plus.

Am I right in saying that HS2 was actually an EU swamp project?

IRC, it was actually conceived in the '80s as one of the Trans-European Transport Network's corridors by the European Round Table of Industrialists.

I can't find their relevant publications online (Missing Links (1984) and Missing Networks (1991)) but, IRC, the idea was to facilitate the movement of goods to/from Britain's Northern industrial heart land (I think the 150 mph thing is just marketing).

Obviously, the economic reality has moved on but it seems that the project has gained a political/graft momentum which is hard to stop.

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eight
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Bien Pensant said:

Am I right in saying that HS2 was actually an EU swamp project?

IRC, it was actually conceived in the '80s as one of the Trans-European Transport Network's corridors by the European Round Table of Industrialists.

I can't find their relevant publications online (Missing Links (1984) and Missing Networks (1991)) but, IRC, the idea was to facilitate the movement of goods to/from Britain's Northern industrial heart land (I think the 150 mph thing is just marketing).

Obviously, the economic reality has moved on but it seems that the project has gained a political/graft momentum which is hard to stop.

High speed rail is an Agenda 21 thing. It doesn't matter if your geography is unsuitable; you're getting it because that's what the future looks like. Think of it like being branded.

Edited by eight
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spygirl
On 01/05/2021 at 15:09, DurhamBorn said:

The worry @spygirl is the amount of pro bennie claims im seeing moving from London/The South into my home town and surrounds,its turning into a flood.The whats on type group on Facebook for my home town has people  every day on there asking what time does the food bank open,any houses to rent etc and usual job "stay at home mummy".The worst thing is they seem to all have 3 or 4 kids,so the costs will be falling on the council as well forcing up council tax even more.

I agree the south is in big trouble,the problem is it seems its forcing the ones who get the freebies north.Likely due to the benefit cap been eaten up with rent down south but not up here.

 

On 01/05/2021 at 15:12, spygirl said:

Thast benefits reform, applying to North as well as South.

At the mo, people are moving because 15m-20m migrants are pushing people out.

We need a harsh Conservative government.

First move - remove access to bennies and public services  from non nationals.

Then, further reform UC. Dont arse around making a new system.

Bump up hours, reduce payouts.

 

Looking for stuff on jessie-jim-bob-cleetus Mbekobssi and I saw this and thought of your reply.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19241356.appeal-following-death-darlington-grandmother-41/?ref=ar

I would assume that the now dead 41yo Grandmum moved to Darlo.

Her daughters FB is all based around Croydon.

And the dead 41yo's partner is called Quentin - I cant think of anyone called Quentin willingly moving to Darlo .....

And this just shows whats happening -

41yo GM - has 21yo kid - so knocked up ~ 19. Is disabled - like everyone on bennies . Sat double dipping for ~18 years.

Her daughter now has a kid, sometime under 21, so gets the social housing.Now childless mum gets moved to Darlo.

Its nuts.

Why dump another areas scum/failures on another town???

 

 

 

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hapax legomenon

Called the chap who does my decorating. He is fully booked until end of Oct. People appear to be awash with cash. Oddly enough firm I work for have said no pay rise this year as they want to see the impact on our business of the furlough scheme ending in Sep. Said would be far from ideal to make pay rises now and have to have a round of redundancies later in the year. 

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Frank Hovis
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Bien Pensant said:

Agree, but, being contrarian again, I would say that calling those who are for free markets ‘right wing’ is a misnomer. They are individualists, they advocate that there is no greater good than that of the individual because a ‘common good’ can only ever really be what pleases the individuals at the top of society.

Socialism is every bit as bad as what Marx called ‘capitalism’ (which I would call ‘corporatism’) because, just like his caricature of ‘capitalism’, it hands power to a small minority at the top.

Materially alone (which I regard as least important), Comrade Stalin had several planes, at least two yachts, at least three mansions and several hand built copies of American Packard cars. Yet, as a good communist, he probably never had a kopek in his pocket, he was able to simply order the comrades to produce them for him.

Individualists are always lumped in with the right wing because they’ve tended to do better on that side. That is because conservatives need their money to fight the socialists’ broader appeal. But, they are neither leftist nor rightist and are viewed with suspicion by both camps.

To a degree.

I love the "Live Free or Die" motto of some US states and also used as bumper stickers or garage signs.

Politicians of all stripes must hate it because it boils down to: we don't need you to organise our lives; therefore we don't need you.

Left however automatically means far more interference in people's lives than right because left seeks equality of outcome to a greater or lesser degree; greatest with communism where everyone must be in an equal position.  Right isn't trying to control this.

In order to achieve this equality  governments exert tremendous control over their people; dictating how much they can earn, where they can live, whether they can drive a car and what make, whether they go to university etc.

With the inevitable result being that people, having lost control of their lives and with no opportunity to improve their position by working longer hours or working harder, realise that there is no point in doing any more than the bare minimum so they don't.  And the economy starts to go into reverse before inevitably collapsing because you end up with a country that is unable to even feed itself.

Edited by Frank Hovis
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steppensheep
On 03/05/2021 at 00:32, Bien Pensant said:

 

... having grown up with someone who later came to identify themselves as a lefty, I perhaps have a better insight into them than most.

They're not people who suddenly discover a rather naive ideology about saving the world. Instead, they're people who grow up hating literally everybody - men, dogs, people who watch Eastenders, kids collecting for sports clubs, people with cars, people with bikes, siblings (of course!), just literally anyone - and discover that they can use the term 'socialism' to transmute that into something moral.

At last, a political compass that suits me!

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Stuey
17 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Had a bloke knock on the door today looking for work. Any work.

Late 50's chap, said he had to return from China where he was teaching. Well presented and personable.

Basically walking all the businesses in the area asking for work.

I haven't seen this in over 20 years.

 

He needs to get on his bike to the north. Loads of places advertising for staff here 

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MrLibertyRedux
36 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Had a bloke knock on the door today looking for work. Any work.

Late 50's chap, said he had to return from China where he was teaching. Well presented and personable.

Basically walking all the businesses in the area asking for work.

I haven't seen this in over 20 years.

 

Christ. I wasn't expecting that type of thing until the furlough is turned off.

DWP has so far recruited 13500 new frontline job centre staff. A growth industry I suppose.

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MrPin
1 hour ago, Wight Flight said:

Had a bloke knock on the door today looking for work. Any work.

Late 50's chap, said he had to return from China where he was teaching. Well presented and personable.

Basically walking all the businesses in the area asking for work.

I haven't seen this in over 20 years.

 

He was casing your joint.

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The XYY Man
21 minutes ago, MrPin said:

He was casing your joint.

They'll find nowt.

The bodies are buried under the patio in his previous gaff...

 

XYY

@Wight Flight

 

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JoeDavola
5 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

Had a bloke knock on the door today looking for work. Any work.

Late 50's chap, said he had to return from China where he was teaching. Well presented and personable.

Basically walking all the businesses in the area asking for work.

How commendable of him. I hope he finds somewhere decent, as unlikely as that is.

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stokiescum
12 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

To a degree.

I love the "Live Free or Die" motto of some US states and also used as bumper stickers or garage signs.

Politicians of all stripes must hate it because it boils down to: we don't need you to organise our lives; therefore we don't need you.

Left however automatically means far more interference in people's lives than right because left seeks equality of outcome to a greater or lesser degree; greatest with communism where everyone must be in an equal position.  Right isn't trying to control this.

In order to achieve this equality  governments exert tremendous control over their people; dictating how much they can earn, where they can live, whether they can drive a car and what make, whether they go to university etc.

With the inevitable result being that people, having lost control of their lives and with no opportunity to improve their position by working longer hours or working harder, realise that there is no point in doing any more than the bare minimum so they don't.  And the economy starts to go into reverse before inevitably collapsing because you end up with a country that is unable to even feed itself.

Its easier up north true you don’t get southern wages but your not getting southern house prices.people adapt fast ,on minimum wage down south there is no way out for the semi ambitious a lot won’t even try so why work 50 hours a week.if benifits pays similar.in much of the north you can try and make a go of it and you stand more chance of success 

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Bien Pensant
13 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

To a degree.

I love the "Live Free or Die" motto of some US states and also used as bumper stickers or garage signs.

Politicians of all stripes must hate it because it boils down to: we don't need you to organise our lives; therefore we don't need you.

Left however automatically means far more interference in people's lives than right because left seeks equality of outcome to a greater or lesser degree; greatest with communism where everyone must be in an equal position.  Right isn't trying to control this.

In order to achieve this equality  governments exert tremendous control over their people; dictating how much they can earn, where they can live, whether they can drive a car and what make, whether they go to university etc.

With the inevitable result being that people, having lost control of their lives and with no opportunity to improve their position by working longer hours or working harder, realise that there is no point in doing any more than the bare minimum so they don't.  And the economy starts to go into reverse before inevitably collapsing because you end up with a country that is unable to even feed itself.

I think that those are all very fair points but that they are somewhat informed by 'today's reality', i.e. that for most of the last 100 years, it has been the leftists who have been the collectivists du jour.

However, prior to that the aristocracy were the principal collectivists (one guy even built himself a water powered automaton depicting society as a mechanism and himself as the regulator).

"The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them, high and lowly,
And ordered their estate."

There was no more bettering yourself under their 'paternalism' than under socialism.

Conservatives are those who want to conserve that, old, form of collectivism. The fight between left and right has always really boiled down to a fight between aristos and middle class 'socialists' over who controls the plebs.

As I said, conservatives were forced to come to terms with those who had gained power through trade due to their lack of popular appeal and, apparently, the main ideological split in the Tory party is between those who live in Georgian mansions, i.e. the aristos whose ancestors built their piles with the proceeds from the agricultural revolution, and those who live in Victorian mansions, i.e. those whose forebears made their way in trade.

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eight

Fultons Foods in the Dundas Arcade is closing down. 50% off all stock! That is some cheap food.... if, indeed, it is food. @Stuey!

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