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The economy is totally and utterly fucked


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Jazztraveller
27 minutes ago, eight said:

Fultons Foods in the Dundas Arcade is closing down. 50% off all stock! That is some cheap food.... if, indeed, it is food. @Stuey!

@Stuey only eats craft beer

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Bien Pensant
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

How commendable of him. I hope he finds somewhere decent, as unlikely as that is.

Before my time but, when this was replayed years later, to reaction shots of disgusted lefties, I never really got what was wrong with the below in principle:

 

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Lightly Toasted
1 hour ago, Bien Pensant said:

I think that those are all very fair points but that they are somewhat informed by 'today's reality', i.e. that for most of the last 100 years, it has been the leftists who have been the collectivists du jour.

However, prior to that the aristocracy were the principal collectivists (one guy even built himself a water powered automaton depicting society as a mechanism and himself as the regulator).

"The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them, high and lowly,
And ordered their estate."

There was no more bettering yourself under their 'paternalism' than under socialism.

Conservatives are those who want to conserve that, old, form of collectivism. The fight between left and right has always really boiled down to a fight between aristos and middle class 'socialists' over who controls the plebs.

As I said, conservatives were forced to come to terms with those who had gained power through trade due to their lack of popular appeal and, apparently, the main ideological split in the Tory party is between those who live in Georgian mansions, i.e. the aristos whose ancestors built their piles with the proceeds from the agricultural revolution, and those who live in Victorian mansions, i.e. those whose forebears made their way in trade.

Conceptually, aristocrats (and their ilk) stand apart from the group they rule, that (IMO) bars them from being collectivists.

By contrast the party boss in a collectivist system is just another comrade. Not in practice of course, but according to the design and presentation of the system.

Pretty much every living conservative would see "bettering yourself" (aspiration) as a good thing -- grocer's daughter -> prime minister breaks the rules of both aristocratic class and male primogeniture :D

This Britannica article is pretty good IMO.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/conservatism

A common way of distinguishing conservatism from both liberalism and radicalism is to say that conservatives reject the optimistic view that human beings can be morally improved through political and social change.

...

To go back to the left/right thing: I consider myself to be fairly right-wing (in favour of small government and big individual liberty/responsibility). But a colonel plotting a coup to establish a military dictatorship would doubtless be seen as right wing too, while taking the opposite view to mine. Britannica tells us of "right wing":

In the 19th century the term applied to conservatives who supported authority, tradition, and property.

which covers enough ground to include both the colonel and myself: he gives more weight to authority and tradition, I give more weight to property (most fundamentally, the individual's ownership of himself).

 

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Lightly Toasted
8 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

Had a bloke knock on the door today looking for work. Any work.

Late 50's chap, said he had to return from China where he was teaching. Well presented and personable.

Basically walking all the businesses in the area asking for work.

I haven't seen this in over 20 years.

 

A guy I worked with ended up selling encyclopaedias door-to-door in the early 90s recession. Lucky for him that wikipedia wasn't a thing yet, I guess! He had a horrendous time of it, married with kids, clung on to his house by his fingernails.

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Bien Pensant
17 minutes ago, Lightly Toasted said:

Conceptually, aristocrats (and their ilk) stand apart from the group they rule, that (IMO) bars them from being collectivists.

That's probably a fair distinction to draw, conceptually, although I would say that it applies more to the mythos than the reality of socialism.

That is why, from my lowly station, they're all just 'collectivists'. They want to use some definition of 'the greater good', which really just means 'what pleases them', to override my own wants/needs.

It's like the old one about the tree full of monkeys, when the ones at the bottom look up all they see is arseholes xD

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hapax legomenon
7 hours ago, Lightly Toasted said:

A guy I worked with ended up selling encyclopaedias door-to-door in the early 90s recession. Lucky for him that wikipedia wasn't a thing yet, I guess! He had a horrendous time of it, married with kids, clung on to his house by his fingernails.

Had an Indian chap trying to sell me the Encyclopedia Britannica at my door in Abu Dhabi about 4 years ago. Still must be a thing, tough job though.

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Frank Hovis
16 minutes ago, hapax legomenon said:

Had an Indian chap trying to sell me the Encyclopedia Britannica at my door in Abu Dhabi about 4 years ago. Still must be a thing, tough job though.

Wow.

They were great things in their day but I'm surprised that there is still a physical edition because they are primarily a reference source rather than a book that you would sit down and read.

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Wight Flight
1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

Wow.

They were great things in their day but I'm surprised that there is still a physical edition because they are primarily a reference source rather than a book that you would sit down and read.

Don't forget that those salesmen are actually snoopers. They make as much money from list ownership as selling a dusty book.

For years they were the only people that had a list of all houses with swimming pools in the UK.

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eight
7 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

For years they were the only people that had a list of all houses with swimming pools in the UK.

The manufacturers of expanded foam swimming noodles would kill for that dossier.

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Heart's Ease
29 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Don't forget that those salesmen are actually snoopers. They make as much money from list ownership as selling a dusty book.

For years they were the only people that had a list of all houses with swimming pools in the UK.

Absolutely. Have we talked about that here before? It was all about the Intel on the property and occupants.

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Wight Flight
3 minutes ago, Heart's Ease said:

Absolutely. Have we talked about that here before? It was all about the Intel on the property and occupants.

Fairly sure I have mentioned it before. It always fascinated me.

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Yadda yadda yadda
45 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Don't forget that those salesmen are actually snoopers. They make as much money from list ownership as selling a dusty book.

For years they were the only people that had a list of all houses with swimming pools in the UK.

How would they know if a house has a swimming pool or not? Aren't they mostly behind houses hidden from view. Some are inside.  Is there some sort of telltale signal, do they sniff out the chlorine or something?

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apples
8 hours ago, Lightly Toasted said:

A guy I worked with ended up selling encyclopaedias door-to-door in the early 90s recession. Lucky for him that wikipedia wasn't a thing yet, I guess! He had a horrendous time of it, married with kids, clung on to his house by his fingernails.

Reminds me of childhood reading:

index.thumb.jpeg.1833da4dc3bd54946e1315014105ec4a.jpeg

 

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Wight Flight
9 minutes ago, Yadda yadda yadda said:

How would they know if a house has a swimming pool or not? Aren't they mostly behind houses hidden from view. Some are inside.  Is there some sort of telltale signal, do they sniff out the chlorine or something?

I guess they poke their noses over the hedge etc. Not perfect, but better than anyone else had at the time.

I did see one of their forms many years ago. Number of cars on drive?, age of cars?, size of garden?, garage? then when door was opened, kids? Pets? Carpets? Age of occupier. All manner of stuff they would collate and then sell on.

Who else would have known which houses in the UK had a parquet floor in the hallway? That info is very valuable.

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jamanda

A few years ago my boss lent me to a regional politics office - won't say which.  This was instead of a donation I believe.

All the stuff mentioned above went on to the computer, including what price range of clothes.  They'd have got your inside leg measurement if they could.  I was amazed at the amount of information they had on each household.  No security worth mentioning.  Everything about you is known one place or another.

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On 04/05/2021 at 23:01, eight said:

Fultons Foods in the Dundas Arcade is closing down. 50% off all stock! That is some cheap food.... if, indeed, it is food. @Stuey!

I know Dundas isn't the most popular place in Boro but if Fulton Foods can't survive there - eek

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Austin Allegro
On 05/05/2021 at 09:15, Frank Hovis said:

Wow.

They were great things in their day but I'm surprised that there is still a physical edition because they are primarily a reference source rather than a book that you would sit down and read.

Back in the day encyclopaedias were a bit like large family Bibles, mostly there for show and to prove social status. Not sure if that applies any more (certainly doesn't with Bibles) but might do with a nice row of Britannicas.

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Ash4781b

It’s looking like the economy is being kept afloat by public spending. Of course this means furlough extensions and lockdowns. I can’t see them doing the alternative it would be like Mad Max scenario. 

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sarahbell
10 minutes ago, Ash4781b said:

It’s looking like the economy is being kept afloat by public spending. Of course this means furlough extensions and lockdowns. I can’t see them doing the alternative it would be like Mad Max scenario. 

The modern way.

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Bus Stop Boxer
On 05/05/2021 at 10:06, Yadda yadda yadda said:

How would they know if a house has a swimming pool or not? Aren't they mostly behind houses hidden from view. Some are inside.  Is there some sort of telltale signal, do they sniff out the chlorine or something?

 

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3 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

B of E are stating that the economy will be back to normal by the end of the year.

Can I have some of what they are smoking?

They have to say this now, because then they can say how desperately awful it is that covid has returned later in the year.

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On 05/05/2021 at 09:00, Bien Pensant said:

Before my time but, when this was replayed years later, to reaction shots of disgusted lefties, I never really got what was wrong with the below in principle:

 

It was cunts like him who put huge swathes of this island into 'managed decline'.

The result is the generational benefit culture and low wage, casualised serf economy subbed by TCs that most of you lot whinge and complain about today.

Worse still, the gutting of British industry during the 80s paved the way for mass immigration to drive the rentier, service based consumer economy under everyone's favourite Thacherite, including old Maggie herself, Blair.

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