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One percent

Wheels coming off the car market

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40732335

car production down 14 percent. 

Anecdotally, (see my thread on buying a new car) I can see cars not shifting. Been looking at a nearly new mini and looking at the mini website, it is the same stock, not shifting.  

I guess that even magic money runs out at some point.  Probably when you do your first borrowed money car trade in and work out exactly what it cost.  

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I think a lot of average motorists flip flop between the two. Fear of something expensive going wrong seems to be a big part of the buying decision. Have a new deal, get to the end of the five years, with nothing much to show for it so then move to the cheap used. The used car gives years of largely troublefree motoring then they stick with used until they get a couple of big bills then lured back on to new with warranty.

Motor manufacturers seem to be struggling with a tech or lifestyle proposition that would seduce me into buying one of their vehicles. Not entirely their fault more a lack of general vision of what society will look like in future. 

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15 minutes ago, One percent said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40732335

car production down 14 percent. 

Anecdotally, (see my thread on buying a new car) I can see cars not shifting. Been looking at a nearly new mini and looking at the mini website, it is the same stock, not shifting.  

I guess that even magic money runs out at some point.  Probably when you do your first borrowed money car trade in and work out exactly what it cost.  

Anecdotally I've spoken to several small business owners of late who are finding it tumbleweed quiet out there. This is beginning to feel a lot like summer 2007 before the shit hit the fan in the autumn.

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3 minutes ago, SNACR said:

 

Motor manufacturers seem to be struggling with a tech or lifestyle proposition that would seduce me into buying one of their vehicles. 

Cars are dull. They've been rendered domestic appliances.

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2 minutes ago, Fully Detached said:

Anecdotally I've spoken to several small business owners of late who are finding it tumbleweed quiet out there. This is beginning to feel a lot like summer 2007 before the shit hit the fan in the autumn.

The levels of debt are not sustainable so at some point it has got to happen. Sooner rather than later would be my wish. 

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5 minutes ago, SNACR said:

I think a lot of average motorists flip flop between the two. Fear of something expensive going wrong seems to be a big part of the buying decision. Have a new deal, get to the end of the five years, with nothing much to show for it so then move to the cheap used. The used car gives years of largely troublefree motoring then they stick with used until they get a couple of big bills then lured back on to new with warranty.

Motor manufacturers seem to be struggling with a tech or lifestyle proposition that would seduce me into buying one of their vehicles. Not entirely their fault more a lack of general vision of what society will look like in future. 

Test driving a new mini the other week, they made a big play on the software that could be preplanned in some way from a mobile phone. More to go wrong thinks me.  

Yet ask a basic question such as can I have it without run flats or what is the mpg and they have to look it up when back in the showroom. 

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1 minute ago, One percent said:

The levels of debt are not sustainable so at some point it has got to happen. Sooner rather than later would be my wish. 

I think the BoE and the lenders will have a few tricks up their sleeve yet in order to maintain the availability of credit, but I'm starting to get the feeling the appetite for taking it on is waning. Once that happens, it's game over, and like you the sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.

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I have to drive practical vehicles i.e. ones that can take large bulky and quite tall items up the rear. Volvo estates used to be great but like all modern cars they are now the wrong shape in that their rear apertures are not accomodating anymore.

I now have to go down the van derived car route and it is now function over form. I look at cars and to be blunt they all look the same, are universally bland, lack any style other than SUV brutality and I am now quite happy driving a brick.

Edited by Chewing Grass
speeling

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Just now, Chewing Grass said:

I have to drive practical vehicles i.e. ines that can take large bulky and quite tall items up the rear.

Must.....resist.....obvious.....Mrs......XYY.....joke.

I'm surprised that Volvo have fallen down, mind. The new ones are effing mahoosive.

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Our cars generally last 10 years. Their failure seems inevitable after that period of time. I am recently more tempted to change sooner but the deals offered have so far been poor so I have not changed my 2013 Focus. I priced it when we buying a fresh nearly new for my wife. I am still happy with the car and can see no point in paying £8k for a nearly new upgrade. They are both diesel by the way.

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I buy a new car if in a new country just because I don't have the network of trusted garages to repair stuff if it goes wrong on a second hand car - a warranty removes that risk (plus when we move again it's easier to resell, although not so financially lucrative).

I do think that when we settle back down under, I'd just like a car that drives, has minimal electronics, and has a low breakdown probability as a result.  I don't need all the gubbins.

 

However, I don;t suppose there will be any 'simple' cars to be had...

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While I understand why some people go for this whole PCP fad - brand new motor, no MOT to worry about, no former owners whom may have coughed, sneezed or even jizzed all over the interior etc etc. To me it's still an alien concept.

I've always bought second hand cars so someone else has had to deal with most of the depreciation. While I don't do bangernomics as such - once my current motor is either high mileage or gets to about 10 years old I start looking for something else. My current car is a Renault Twingo 1.6 on a 59 plate. Bought it back in 2015 from a local trader (I say trader, posh boy with a big back garden full of cars) for £5k as it only had 33k mileage and was in pretty good nick. Only paid £1.5k cash though as I traded in my old car. I'll probably keep it till at least 2020 or just before it's next cambelt change is due and do the same again - to me £1.5k for about 5 years motoring is pretty good value.

In terms of maintenance, I'm lucky to have a good mate who has his own garage so I know he does a good job at service time and very rarely has anything gone wrong between services. Average service cost is about 200-250 quid - although the last one was nearer £500 as it was cambelt change time but that's only once every 6 years (or 8 in my case - the old belt properly would of gone on another year but I didn't want to risk it). To me, that makes more sense than £200-£300 a month for fuck knows how many years just so you can say you've got a 67 plate, electronically overcomplicated, blandmobile. 

Edited by TheNoSnowMan

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For bargain motoring category D write offs always look like great value, ideally with some photos of the original damage but it is rarely critical damage - it would have been repaired if dealers or bodyshops trawled for scrap parts and sold on without the cat D tag. Only if you run vehicles into the ground as many buyers fear when the time to sell comes.

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40 minutes ago, TheNoSnowMan said:

While I understand why some people go for this whole PCP fad - brand new motor, no MOT to worry about, no former owners whom may have coughed, sneezed or even jizzed all over the interior etc etc. To me it's still an alien concept.

I've always bought second hand cars so someone else has had to deal with most of the depreciation. While I don't do bangernomics as such - once my current motor is either high mileage or gets to about 10 years old I start looking for something else. My current car is a Renault Twingo 1.6 on a 59 plate. Bought it back in 2015 from a local trader (I say trader, posh boy with a big back garden full of cars) for £5k as it only had 33k mileage and was in pretty good nick. Only paid £1.5k cash though as I traded in my old car. I'll probably keep it till at least 2020 or just before it's next cambelt change is due and do the same again - to me £1.5k for about 5 years motoring is pretty good value.

In terms of maintenance, I'm lucky to have a good mate who has his own garage so I know he does a good job at service time and very rarely has anything gone wrong between services. Average service cost is about 200-250 quid - although the last one was nearer £500 as it was cambelt change time but that's only once every 6 years (or 8 in my case - the old belt properly would of gone on another year but I didn't want to risk it). To me, that makes more sense than £200-£300 a month for fuck knows how many years just so you can say you've got a 67 plate, electronically overcomplicated, blandmobile. 

It is kind of bangernomics because I suspect you would either ditch the car, or be very tempted to, if it needed a four figure repair. If it's a £10k used car people will keep ploughing the money in.

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19 minutes ago, SNACR said:

It is kind of bangernomics because I suspect you would either ditch the car, or be very tempted to, if it needed a four figure repair. If it's a £10k used car people will keep ploughing the money in.

You have a point. I thought bangernomics was more your <£1000 car personally. But then people keep asking me why I buy french 'shit' so maybe it is...

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28 minutes ago, SNACR said:

For bargain motoring category D write offs always look like great value, ideally with some photos of the original damage but it is rarely critical damage - it would have been repaired if dealers or bodyshops trawled for scrap parts and sold on without the cat D tag. Only if you run vehicles into the ground as many buyers fear when the time to sell comes.

If you know anybody handy in the trade you can keep an eye on Copart or the like, find the one you want repaired  with the damage you are willing to accept and do it that way. A little bit safer in the knowledge of what you bought and what was done to bring back to the road. Never done it though or have been tempted and you do need a mechanic ideally with bodyshop who you can trust and does good rates.  Never been quite sure of the insurance implications/costs though.

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As i'm driving around Sheffield I have noticed 4 big brand showrooms that have closed recently. Not sure if they have moved or what.

Edited by Reebo
stupid auto correct

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2 hours ago, TheNoSnowMan said:

While I understand why some people go for this whole PCP fad - brand new motor, no MOT to worry about, no former owners whom may have coughed, sneezed or even jizzed all over the interior etc etc. To me it's still an alien concept.

I've always bought second hand cars so someone else has had to deal with most of the depreciation. While I don't do bangernomics as such - once my current motor is either high mileage or gets to about 10 years old I start looking for something else. My current car is a Renault Twingo 1.6 on a 59 plate. Bought it back in 2015 from a local trader (I say trader, posh boy with a big back garden full of cars) for £5k as it only had 33k mileage and was in pretty good nick. Only paid £1.5k cash though as I traded in my old car. I'll probably keep it till at least 2020 or just before it's next cambelt change is due and do the same again - to me £1.5k for about 5 years motoring is pretty good value.

In terms of maintenance, I'm lucky to have a good mate who has his own garage so I know he does a good job at service time and very rarely has anything gone wrong between services. Average service cost is about 200-250 quid - although the last one was nearer £500 as it was cambelt change time but that's only once every 6 years (or 8 in my case - the old belt properly would of gone on another year but I didn't want to risk it). To me, that makes more sense than £200-£300 a month for fuck knows how many years just so you can say you've got a 67 plate, electronically overcomplicated, blandmobile. 

Most people go for PCP as they go on the amount of take-home they have per month and how much of that they can safely put into a monthly figure for a nice new car. Aside from the odd service or new tyres, it's a fairly accurate figure and allows one to budget without saving. I don't begrudge these people, not least because I have been one. You pays your money etc.

Most don't realise that they can't get out easily. Dealers openly lie as they know there is no comeback if any deceit is done verbally. EG "you can easily get out half way through if you don't like it", without mentioning that the interest is front-loaded therefore half way means when 50% of the cost is paid off, not when 50% of time has passed in the agreement. As an example on a 48 month contract this would lie somewhere loosely around the 36 month mark rather than the 24 month, etc.

 

 

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I see there's a new automobile brand being pushed now - the DS.  Apparently been around since about 2009 but rarely if ever seen on UK roads.

Quote

 

For what seem to be rebadged restyled Citroens probably made in China and not much less in price than similar Mercedes the Distinctive Spirit (DS) seems more like a distinctive rip-off.

Edited by twocents

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2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I've seen these fairly frequently, basically a better looking Citroen.

The first I saw was on display in a mall.  It probably depends on location.

Edited by twocents

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3 minutes ago, twocents said:

The first I saw was on display in a mall.  It probably depends on location.

I'm certainly not in a posh area! I assumed they were fairly cheap and they are good looking small cars so you can see why people buy them.

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