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Are Policemen that stop people from sunbathing killing some of them?

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[apologies, I know vitamin D has been mentioned a lot in the CV thread, but it's too long to find references]

In the Market Oracle's (slightly crazy) newsletter of last night is mentioned this Irish Study: https://tilda.tcd.ie/publications/reports/pdf/Report_Covid19VitaminD.pdf - "Vitamin D deficiency in Ireland – implications for COVID-19. Results from the Irish Longitudinal Study on Ageing (TILDA)"

Really interesting reading, IMO. The thing that really struck me was the correlation between vitamin D deficiency, and the virus risk groups:

Quote

During the summer period (optimum period for making vitamin D from sunlight), 8.4% (96,308) of adults aged >55 years were vitamin D deficient (Figure 3; Table 5) while for those aged 70+, the rate of deficiency was 12.1% (51,586). The highest rates of deficiency were observed for those aged 85+ years (30.7%; 20,739). Similar age defined rates were observed for both men and women though with women having slightly higher deficiency rates overall.

Quote

The risk factors for vitamin D deficiency are displayed in Figure 5. The largest negative predictors included smoking, geographic location (living in the North and West compared to the East of the country), winter season, physically inactivity, and older age. The largest positive predictor of vitamin D was vitamin D supplement use followed by being female.

Quote

Overall, obese older adults had much higher rates of vitamin D deficiency both in winter and summer (Figures 6-7). During winter, rates of vitamin D deficiency in the obese were 27.3% for those aged 55+ and 35.3% for those aged 70+ compared to 20.8% and 27.0% respectively for those not obese. Similar trends were also observed during summer.

 

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To answer the question, not really. 

In the UK in April we only need 9 minutes of sunlight a day to get the 100% RDA of Vitamin D. There's no need to sunbathe for hours. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5946282/

 

Results show that, in specified conditions, white Caucasians across the UK need nine minutes of daily sunlight at lunchtime from March to September for 25(OH)D levels to remain ≥25 nmol/L throughout the winter. This assumes forearms and lower legs are exposed June-August, while in the remaining, cooler months only hands and face need be exposed. Exposing only the hands and face throughout the summer does not meet requirements.

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24 minutes ago, ad_ceng said:

There was a case yesterday or day before of a police woman being battered for asking why somone was out side.

Mail was in uproar my first thought was more of this needs to happen to the police. 

The police and NHS are killing pepole but thats nothing new we are just tax slaves

Wasn't that why someone was traveling on a train to Birmingham?  The perp being called Nelson Nelson which tells you everything you need to know about them.

The response was like something out of a Rambo film with three transport police battered, one thrown in front of a car, and a police dog hit with a plank.

Obviously that's wildly disproportionate but where have the transport police acquired the idea that their job now consists of walking up and down a train and interrogating people about the details of the purpose of their journey like the Stasi?

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46 minutes ago, spunko said:

To answer the question, not really. 

In the UK in April we only need 9 minutes of sunlight a day to get the 100% RDA of Vitamin D. There's no need to sunbathe for hours. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5946282/

 

Results show that, in specified conditions, white Caucasians across the UK need nine minutes of daily sunlight at lunchtime from March to September for 25(OH)D levels to remain ≥25 nmol/L throughout the winter. This assumes forearms and lower legs are exposed June-August, while in the remaining, cooler months only hands and face need be exposed. Exposing only the hands and face throughout the summer does not meet requirements.

Why are such numbers of elderly, obese, etc people in Ireland vitamin D deficient? They must be outside for 10 minutes a day. 

Found this charts showing that Ireland is about as sunny as the UK (except Cornwall):

solarMap2.thumb.png.99a8082d48712ebf4adaaebe848cacf1.png

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Just now, Heffalump said:

Why are such numbers of elderly, obese, etc people in Ireland vitamin D deficient? They must be outside for 10 minutes a day. 

Found this charts showing that Ireland is about as sunny as the UK (except Cornwall):

solarMap2.thumb.png.99a8082d48712ebf4adaaebe848cacf1.png

Having been to Ireland I can confirm it's a wet, grey, damp place like Wales :CryBaby:

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, spunko said:

To answer the question, not really. 

In the UK in April we only need 9 minutes of sunlight a day to get the 100% RDA of Vitamin D. There's no need to sunbathe for hours. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5946282/

 

Results show that, in specified conditions, white Caucasians across the UK need nine minutes of daily sunlight at lunchtime from March to September for 25(OH)D levels to remain ≥25 nmol/L throughout the winter. This assumes forearms and lower legs are exposed June-August, while in the remaining, cooler months only hands and face need be exposed. Exposing only the hands and face throughout the summer does not meet requirements.

until recently, police were threatening to arrest people for sitting on a park bench for just a few minutes, I'm sure some nervous people, or people with severe anxiety will have heard these horror stories, and are now simply choosing not to venture out at all for fear of arrest.

Of course, we could just blame the media for spreading these stories :)

Edited by snaga

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49 minutes ago, spunko said:

To answer the question, not really. 

In the UK in April we only need 9 minutes of sunlight a day to get the 100% RDA of Vitamin D. There's no need to sunbathe for hours. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5946282/

 

Results show that, in specified conditions, white Caucasians across the UK need nine minutes of daily sunlight at lunchtime from March to September for 25(OH)D levels to remain ≥25 nmol/L throughout the winter. This assumes forearms and lower legs are exposed June-August, while in the remaining, cooler months only hands and face need be exposed. Exposing only the hands and face throughout the summer does not meet requirements.

That may be enough to avoid rickets for white people. It’s nowhere near enough to give a black person an optimum supply. Also east London where the BAME population is “over-represented” has a very high proportion of flats with no outside space of their own.

Besides which sunbathing in a park doesn’t constitute a significant risk to anyone. So they should fucking mind their own business for that reason alone.

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1 minute ago, snaga said:

until recently, police were threatening to arrest people for sitting on a park bench for just a few minutes, I'm sure some nervous people, or people with severe anxiety will have heard these horror stories, and are now simply choosing not to venture out at all for fear of arrest.

Of course, we could just blame the media for spreading these stories :)

The media have made this ten times worse not the police imo. 

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3 minutes ago, Heffalump said:

Why are such numbers of elderly, obese, etc people in Ireland vitamin D deficient? They must be outside for 10 minutes a day. 

Found this charts showing that Ireland is about as sunny as the UK (except Cornwall):

 

If in a care home, quite possibly not.  

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, spunko said:

The media have made this ten times worse not the police imo. 

yes, as they always do, but for all we know, the Police encouraged the media to run these stories, as it helps the Police get their message over to the public.

Edited by snaga

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20 minutes ago, spunko said:

Having been to Ireland I can confirm it's a wet, grey, damp place like Wales :CryBaby:

I've been on holiday to Ireland once. It rained all week. I've been to West wales once, Pembroke, close to Ireland (except the sea). It rained all week too. I can confirm 😂

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, spunko said:

To answer the question, not really. 

In the UK in April we only need 9 minutes of sunlight a day to get the 100% RDA of Vitamin D. There's no need to sunbathe for hours. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5946282/

 

Results show that, in specified conditions, white Caucasians across the UK need nine minutes of daily sunlight at lunchtime from March to September for 25(OH)D levels to remain ≥25 nmol/L throughout the winter. This assumes forearms and lower legs are exposed June-August, while in the remaining, cooler months only hands and face need be exposed. Exposing only the hands and face throughout the summer does not meet requirements.

 

Cosmetics will affect sun exposure and Vit-D Synthesis - we are encouraged to slather up with sunscreen

Body fat is also a known factor in Vit D levels and so that will also affect the amount of exposure required to generate sufficient Vit D to overcome the effect of an individual's fat on their vit D levels.

In looking for a reference for that assertion, I found the following intriguing study that may provide a reason why men are more susceptible to SarsCov2 and Covid19 than women; could this difference in susceptibility be due to

The different distribution of body fat between men and women?

Men tend to have more abdominal fat. More abdominal fat = lower Vit D levels

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-05/esoe-lwa051718.php

Larger waistlines are linked to higher risk of vitamin D deficiency

Quote

the amounts of both total and abdominal fat were associated with lower vitamin D levels in women, although abdominal fat had a greater impact. However, in men abdominal fat and liver fat, was associated with lower vitamin D levels. In all cases the greater the amount of belly fat, the lower the levels of detected vitamin D.

 

Edited by Hopeful

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7 minutes ago, Green Devil said:

I've been on holiday to Ireland once. It rained all week. I've been to West wales once, Pembroke, close to Ireland (except the sea). It rained all week too. I can confirm 😂

West coast of Scotland isn’t great either. Been to Fort William twice, and it has been absolutely hammering down with rain so hard you feel pressure on top of your head every single minute both times.

When Travis sang “Why does it always rain on me?” my reaction was “Move south and/or east, dickheads.”

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13 minutes ago, Green Devil said:

I've been on holiday to Ireland once. It rained all week. I've been to West wales once, Pembroke, close to Ireland (except the sea). It rained all week too. I can confirm 😂

I live in Wales, and can confirm that it is currently raining.

xD

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1 hour ago, Heffalump said:

Why are such numbers of elderly, obese, etc people in Ireland vitamin D deficient? They must be outside for 10 minutes a day. 

Found this charts showing that Ireland is about as sunny as the UK (except Cornwall):

solarMap2.thumb.png.99a8082d48712ebf4adaaebe848cacf1.png

That map is complete bollocks.

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3 hours ago, spunko said:

To answer the question, not really. 

In the UK in April we only need 9 minutes of sunlight a day to get the 100% RDA of Vitamin D. There's no need to sunbathe for hours. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5946282/

 

Results show that, in specified conditions, white Caucasians across the UK need nine minutes of daily sunlight at lunchtime from March to September for 25(OH)D levels to remain ≥25 nmol/L throughout the winter. This assumes forearms and lower legs are exposed June-August, while in the remaining, cooler months only hands and face need be exposed. Exposing only the hands and face throughout the summer does not meet requirements.

That will be a good study but even that is surely a generalisation.

Take this week as an example, it's gone cloudy drab and shit.  Sure guess you'll still get some exposure even through clouds but would probably need hours (not that anyone would sunbathe today anyway).  Vit D as far as I know is water soluble so having a few hours sunbathing and getting 2000% RDA should actually be encouraged (maybe not everyday due to the skin cancer risks).  Okay even then it wouldn't last 20 times as long but it would take longer than just a day to flush out of the system.  In blighty we should take any opportunity to get our levels up.  Also the study assumes lunchtime and peak UV exposure, that'll tail off to needing 5 times as long in the late afternoon/evenings.

2 hours ago, Hail the Tripod said:

That may be enough to avoid rickets for white people. It’s nowhere near enough to give a black person an optimum supply. Also east London where the BAME population is “over-represented” has a very high proportion of flats with no outside space of their own.

Besides which sunbathing in a park doesn’t constitute a significant risk to anyone. So they should fucking mind their own business for that reason alone.

And yes, even without the science and health reasoning, a perfectly valid retort to any busybody plod should be 'mind your own fucking business'.xD

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4 hours ago, spunko said:

To answer the question, not really. 

In the UK in April we only need 9 minutes of sunlight a day to get the 100% RDA of Vitamin D. There's no need to sunbathe for hours. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5946282/

 

Results show that, in specified conditions, white Caucasians across the UK need nine minutes of daily sunlight at lunchtime from March to September for 25(OH)D levels to remain ≥25 nmol/L throughout the winter. This assumes forearms and lower legs are exposed June-August, while in the remaining, cooler months only hands and face need be exposed. Exposing only the hands and face throughout the summer does not meet requirements.

The RDA is woefully out of date. It is simply based on the assumption that Rickets is the only outcome of deficiency. Its now known that Vit D has over 200 metabolic functions, many immunological. 

I take 10,000iu a day and its funny telling Doctors this because they presume I must have turned into something resembling the cliffs of Dover. So they test me and my blood Vit D levels are the high end of normal. I do however take magnesium to counter the Calcium uptake. 

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32 minutes ago, Kurt Barlow said:

The RDA is woefully out of date. It is simply based on the assumption that Rickets is the only outcome of deficiency. Its now known that Vit D has over 200 metabolic functions, many immunological. 

I take 10,000iu a day and its funny telling Doctors this because they presume I must have turned into something resembling the cliffs of Dover. So they test me and my blood Vit D levels are the high end of normal. I do however take magnesium to counter the Calcium uptake. 

Yep that RDA used is probably the one you read on boots vit D bottles that is 400iu or something. 

The vit D council of Britain says 2-5,000 iu iirc. 

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4 hours ago, Hopeful said:

 

Cosmetics will affect sun exposure and Vit-D Synthesis - we are encouraged to slather up with sunscreen

Body fat is also a known factor in Vit D levels and so that will also affect the amount of exposure required to generate sufficient Vit D to overcome the effect of an individual's fat on their vit D levels.

In looking for a reference for that assertion, I found the following intriguing study that may provide a reason why men are more susceptible to SarsCov2 and Covid19 than women; could this difference in susceptibility be due to

The different distribution of body fat between men and women?

Men tend to have more abdominal fat. More abdominal fat = lower Vit D levels

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-05/esoe-lwa051718.php

Larger waistlines are linked to higher risk of vitamin D deficiency

 

Being overweight is a well known health risk. I wonder how much of that risk is mitigated by simply increasing Vitamin D uptake?  Maybe it is fine to eat cookies and doughnuts in that case?! 

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