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BWW

thrombosis and autopsies

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Thrombosis was mentioned briefly in the main thread but the following facebook "crap" seems only to have been denied with the statement that the powers that be and all scientific research done says it's not that.

How many autopsies of people who die from this fairly new-unknown disease are being done and if it's not a lot, why not?

[A question some journos may like to ask Hancock at the daily]

www.facebook.com/paidabribe/posts/3441939405835621

Quote

Thanks to autopsies performed by d Italians ... it has been shown that it is not pneumonia ... but it is: disseminated intravascular coagulation (thrombosis).

Therefore, the way to fight it is with *antibiotics, antivirals, anti-inflammatories and anticoagulants.*

The protocols are being changed here since noon!

*According to valuable information from Italian pathologists, ventilators and intensive care units were never needed.*

If this is true for all cases, we are about to resolve it earlier than expected.

Important and new about Coranovirus:

Around the world, COVID-19 is being attacked wrongly due to a serious pathophysiological diagnosis error.

The impressive case of a Mexican family in the United States who claimed they were cured with a home remedy was documented: *three 500 mg aspirins dissolved in lemon juice boiled with honey, taken hot.*

The next day they woke up as if nothing had happened to them!

Well, the scientific information that follows proves they are right!

This information was released by a medical researcher from Italy:
Thanks to 50 autopsies performed on patients who died of COVID-19, Italian pathologists have discovered that IT IS NOT PNEUMONIA, strictly speaking, because the virus does not only kill pneumocytes of this type, but uses an inflammatory storm to create an endothelial vascular thrombosis.

As in disseminated intravascular coagulation, the lung is the most affected because it is the most inflamed, but there is also a heart attack, stroke and many other thromboembolic diseases.

*In fact, the protocols left antiviral therapies useless and focused on anti-inflammatory and anti-clotting therapies.*

These therapies should be done immediately, even at home, in which the treatment of patients responds very well.

The later performed less effective.
In resuscitation, they are almost useless.

If the Chinese had denounced it, they would have invested in home therapy, not intensive care!

DISSEMINATED INTRAVASCULAR COAGULATION (THROMBOSIS):

*So, the way to fight it is with antibiotics, anti-inflammatories and anticoagulants.*

An Italian pathologist reports that the hospital in Bergamo did a total of 50 autopsies and one in Milan, 20, that is, the Italian series is d highest in the world, the Chinese did only 3, which seems to fully confirm the information.

Previously, in a nutshell, d disease is determined by a disseminated intravascular coagulation triggered by the virus; therefore, it is not pneumonia but pulmonary thrombosis, a major diagnostic error.

We doubled the number of resuscitation places in d ICU, with unnecessary exorbitant costs.

In retrospect, we have to rethink those chest X-rays that were discussed a month ago and were given as interstitial pneumonia; in fact, it may be entirely consistent with disseminated intravascular coagulation.

Treatment in ICUs is useless if thromboembolism is not resolved first. If we ventilate a lung where blood does not circulate, it is useless, in fact, nine (9) patients out of ten (10) die.

Because the problem is cardiovascular, not respiratory.

It is venous microthrombosis, not pneumonia, that determines mortality.

Why thrombi are formed

Because inflammation, according to d literature, induces thrombosis through a complex but well-known pathophysiological mechanism.

Unfortunately what the scientific literature said, especially Chinese, until mid-March was that anti-inflammatory drugs should not be used.

*Now, the therapy being used in Italy is with anti-inflammatories and antibiotics, as in influenza, and the number of hospitalized patients has been reduced.*

Many deaths, even in their 40s, had a history of fever for 10 to 15 days, which were not treated properly.

The inflammation did a great deal of tissue damage and created ground for thrombus formation, because the main problem is not the virus, but the immune hyperreaction that destroys the cell where the virus is installed. In fact, patients with rheumatoid arthritis have never needed to be admitted to the ICU because they are on corticosteroid therapy, which is a great anti-inflammatory.

This is the main reason why hospitalizations in Italy are decreasing and becoming a treatable disease at home. By treating her well at home, not only is hospitalization avoided, but also the risk of thrombosis.

It was not easy to understand, because the signs of microembolism disappeared!

With this important discovery, it is possible to return to normal life and open closed deals due to the quarantine, not immediately, but it is time to publish this data, so that the health authorities of each country make their respective analysis of this information and prevent further deaths. useless!

The vaccine may come later.

Now we can wait.
In Italy, as of today, protocols are changing.

According to valuable information from Italian pathologists, ventilators and intensive care units are not necessary.

Therefore, we need to rethink investments to properly deal with this disease.

Não há (Translation by automatic device).

Denial:

https://www.animalpolitico.com/elsabueso/no-covid-no-es-trombosis-tratar-antibioticos/

Quote

Es verdad que un equipo de científicos en Italia descubrió que uno de los efectos de la COVID-19 en el organismo es la trombosis pulmonar. Sin embargo, los estudios científicos publicados hasta ahora confirman que la COVID-19 es causada por el virus SARS-COV-2 que afecta el sistema respiratorio y no debe tratarse con antibióticos. Además, los especialistas señalan que la trombosis pulmonar puede complicar aún más el curso de la neumonía.

 

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I don't think antibiotics would help as it is a virus. Aspirin probably does no harm and it is anti-inflamatory.

I don't think Facebook knows.

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10 minutes ago, MrPin said:

I don't think antibiotics would help as it is a virus. Aspirin probably does no harm and it is anti-inflamatory.

I don't think Facebook knows.

Certainly early on and a midway it was suggested that the extensive virus attributed damage to the lungs was creating an entry point for bacterial infection - some of the reasoning behind the two stage process though looking at the above and recent Dr Seuheult (S?_ videos) the second stage could be more to do with the blood/other organs/blood vessel infection level). There have been studies where the use of Az as part of drug cocktail seemed beneficial which would back up the double infection idea. 

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21 minutes ago, BWW said:

Thrombosis was mentioned briefly in the main thread but the following facebook "crap" seems only to have been denied with the statement that the powers that be and all scientific research done says it's not that.

How many autopsies of people who die from this fairly new-unknown disease are being done and if it's not a lot, why not?

[A question some journos may like to ask Hancock at the daily]

www.facebook.com/paidabribe/posts/3441939405835621

Denial:

https://www.animalpolitico.com/elsabueso/no-covid-no-es-trombosis-tratar-antibioticos/

 

As a rule, you only find stuff  when you start looking.

You might want to look up Harold Shipman and how the NHS bothering to look at patients deaths and apply a bit of stats.

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Posted (edited)

A recent MedCram video linked in the Coroanvirus thread by @The Masked Tulip highlighted the role of thrombisis and the likely use of anticoagulants as a therapy

Antibiotics are usualy of use to fight off secondary infections that occur once you immune system is compromised.

It's a very good video

 

 

This is the most recent that provides a synthesis of the state of play, but it is very long at 93 minutes

 

 

Edited by Hopeful

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23 minutes ago, MrPin said:

I don't think antibiotics would help as it is a virus. Aspirin probably does no harm and it is anti-inflamatory.

I don't think Facebook knows.

Flu is a virus that kills thousands usually via pneumonia which is a bacterial infection  

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1 minute ago, Long time lurking said:

Flu is a virus that kills thousands usually via pneumonia which is a bacterial infection  

Yes, I know.

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Growing evidence to support this, see Hopeful's post, the pathway seems reasonably well understood too, this really should be getting far more attention, and perhaps it is in health circles. Afterall, the politicians and media have only just cottonned on to the concept of R0, and the medics were talking about this in January.

 

 

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To the layman, there does seem to be a lot of suggestion online that the problem seems to be with blood not carrying oxygen more than lungs not getting oxygen into blood. Has there been any talk of this in the UK mainstream medical / political / media or is it still considered 'fringe' thinking?

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6 minutes ago, Caravan Monster said:

To the layman, there does seem to be a lot of suggestion online that the problem seems to be with blood not carrying oxygen more than lungs not getting oxygen into blood. Has there been any talk of this in the UK mainstream medical / political / media or is it still considered 'fringe' thinking?

UK MSM are at the the level of clapping like seals to save lives and the nhs.

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13 minutes ago, Caravan Monster said:

To the layman, there does seem to be a lot of suggestion online that the problem seems to be with blood not carrying oxygen more than lungs not getting oxygen into blood. Has there been any talk of this in the UK mainstream medical / political / media or is it still considered 'fringe' thinking?

Well according to the article the OP posted it`s far from fringe it looks to be the Italians new clinical guidelines 

There was a report from a French doctor saying very similar a week or so ago regarding treatment it sounded like the French were doing a 180 on ventilators then 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

Well according to the article the OP posted it`s far from fringe it looks to be the Italians new clinical guidelines 

There was a report from a French doctor saying very similar a week or so ago regarding treatment it sounded like the French were doing a 180 on ventilators then 

 

It's astonishing that we are having to learn all this as if the virus has suddenly appeared and there are no countries that have dealt wth it before - you might have thought that China might have some insight, although I appreciate that insight and inventiveness are not innate abiities, copying others more so.

And then, you might have thought that the WHO would have discovered from China how China responded medically and would have disseminated this knowlegde, perhaps as clinical guidelines, to the rest of the world.

Fuck China, Fuck the WHO

Edited by Hopeful

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1 hour ago, Long time lurking said:

Flu is a virus that kills thousands usually via pneumonia which is a bacterial infection  

I'd understood that pneumonia is inflammatory - and can be either viral, or bacterial ?

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

 

It's astonishing that we are having to learn all this as if the virus has suddenly appeared and there are no countries that have dealt wth it before - you might have thought that China might have some insight, although I appreciate that insight and inventiveness are not innate abiities, copying others more so.

And then, you might have thought that the WHO would have discovered from China how China responded medically and would have disseminated this knowlegde, perhaps as clinical guidelines, to the rest of the world.

Fuck China, Fuck the WHO

From the link in the OP (denial) 

Quote

Being a disease caused by the SARS-COV-2 coronavirus, it should not be treated with antibiotics, as these are NOT effective against viruses.

The WHO also warns that "antibiotics are only effective against bacterial infections." COVID-19 is caused by a virus, and in this case, antibiotics do not work.

The site https://www.animalpolitico.com/elsabueso/no-covid-no-es-trombosis-tratar-antibioticos/

And that`s an officially endorsed site for Covid 19 advice:CryBaby:

Edited by Long time lurking

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

Nothing wrong with that statement at all

The antibiotics are there for the secondary infections that come along opportunistically because you are already ill with Covid19

Edited by Hopeful

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1 minute ago, Hopeful said:

Nothing wrong with that statement at all

The antibiotics are there for the secondary infections that come along opportunistically because you are already ill with Covid19

Well yes but you would think the WHO would understand the roll of therapeutic medicine and can distinguish between the two 

10 minutes ago, Heffalump said:

I'd understood that pneumonia is inflammatory - and can be either viral, or bacterial ?

Bacterial i believe ,i could be wrong 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

Well yes but you would think the WHO would understand the roll of therapeutic medicine and can distinguish between the two 

But i can't find anything to argue with in those two paragraphs. 100% right. It depends what text surrounds those two paragraphs, I guess.

Having said that, it's not really a statement that it's necessary to make as it's  just stating the bleeding obvious.

While you wouldn't usually prescribe prophylactic ABs it is probably wise to do so in respect of Covid19 because of the consequences of secondary infections should you get them

 

Edited by Hopeful

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5 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

Well yes but you would think the WHO would understand the roll of therapeutic medicine and can distinguish between the two 

Bacterial i believe ,i could be wrong 

AIUI, if it were only bacterial, it could be treated with wide spectrum antibiotics.

Viral pneumonia can't. Unless the viral pneumonia weakens things so much that bacteria then get in. But that's just treating a secondary infection.

I have no medical training.

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1 minute ago, Hopeful said:

But i can't find anything to argue with in those two paragraphs. 100% right. It depends what text surrounds those two paragraphs, I guess.

Well that was more my point a badly made one at that 

The site is calling the report fake news based on those two paragraphs and its officially endorsed to call fake news out 

to me the site looks like an adopt a cuddly animal for £3 a month

You really need to read the article 

2 minutes ago, Heffalump said:

I have no medical training.

Nor me just going on what the OP posted 

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1 hour ago, Hopeful said:

A recent MedCram video linked in the Coroanvirus thread by @The Masked Tulip highlighted the role of thrombisis and the likely use of anticoagulants as a therapy

Antibiotics are usualy of use to fight off secondary infections that occur once you immune system is compromised.

It's a very good video

 

 

This is the most recent that provides a synthesis of the state of play, but it is very long at 93 minutes

 

 

Thanks for sharing, the long video was well worth watching. As always, I am impressed by how much of that information has already been covered in the forums here

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It's a perfectly valid hypothesis that people who catch a secondary bacterial infection are those that end up dead whereas those that survive have either not caught a bacterial infection or were able to fight it off.

Also sounds pretty likely to me, if you're body's struggling fighting a virus, it'll have more trouble fighting the

Most importantly it's not very difficult and wouldn't take very long to find out, I guess.

Simply do some sort of autopsy/testing on a random sample of those dieing to see how many had bacterial infections. How long would that take? @Hopeful

One of the biggest problem with this is that if antibiotic treatment for everyone presenting with covid [as a prophylactic] reduces death rates to not many, the gov who've taken the measures they have are gonna look a bit daft. If aspirin does it, more so.

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1 minute ago, BWW said:

It's a perfectly valid hypothesis that people who catch a secondary bacterial infection are those that end up dead whereas those that survive have either not caught a bacterial infection or were able to fight it off.

Also sounds pretty likely to me, if you're body's struggling fighting a virus, it'll have more trouble fighting the

Most importantly it's not very difficult and wouldn't take very long to find out, I guess.

Simply do some sort of autopsy/testing on a random sample of those dieing to see how many had bacterial infections. How long would that take? @Hopeful

One of the biggest problem with this is that if antibiotic treatment for everyone presenting with covid [as a prophylactic] reduces death rates to not many, the gov who've taken the measures they have are gonna look a bit daft. If aspirin does it, more so.

Yes, but not the whole story with this virus. If it affects the lungs badly that looks like what happens-th Chinese were doing chest X-rays in the end to diagnose rather than PCR tests. However,you;ve now go evidence of very serious cases of low oxygen / hypoxia type cases, very few symptoms, patients not even knowing hey are ill rocking up with critically low oxygen levels on the brink of major organ failure, it seems in those cases the virus skipped the lung ravaging bit and went systemic instead. 

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I noticed a couple of weeks back that fibrinolytics and anti-coagulants were mentioned for the treatment of COVID-19.  I thought it might have been to do with clotting in comatose patients, but maybe it is more than that.  The link is dead now, but still available in Google's cache:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cm249JK0Oj8J:https://www.elsevier.com/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/988648/COVID-19-Drug-Therapy_Mar-2020.pdf+&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Is aspirin a good idea? (Is there a link between aspirin and ACE2?)

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15 minutes ago, Big Boy said:

I noticed a couple of weeks back that fibrinolytics and anti-coagulants were mentioned for the treatment of COVID-19.  I thought it might have been to do with clotting in comatose patients, but maybe it is more than that.  The link is dead now, but still available in Google's cache:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cm249JK0Oj8J:https://www.elsevier.com/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/988648/COVID-19-Drug-Therapy_Mar-2020.pdf+&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Is aspirin a good idea? (Is there a link between aspirin and ACE2?)

Lot of info there, missed that one.

There was a push towards paracetamol rather than aspirin / ibuprofen as anti inflammatories were supposedly problematic for specific reasons I forget.

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