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Bornagain

Fear & Risk.

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Posted (edited)
The response to the CV issue seems  to demonstrate how a significant proportion of the general public have little or no understanding of risk, how to evaluate it and what steps to take in order to reduce it.
 
The long and short of CV is that unless you are old, fat, ill, with low vitamin D, then you are very unlikely to be killed by the it  A quick review of the NHS England daily spreadsheet confirms most of this statement. https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/
 
It seems that to be at a significant risk you need to have all four risk factors, and presumably the lower the number of risk factors, the lower the risk of you being killed by CV.
 
If you spend any time around people, for me this means a trip to the supermarket, or a walk, it is clear that many people appear to be very frightened of the CV, you can see it in peoples extreme social distancing, wearing masks whilst in the fresh air, and you can hear it in casual conversations overheard in the queues.  My wifes sister and her family seem paralysed by fear, my brothers wife (who is thin, youngish, fit and healthy) is also terrified.
 
There are people who have every reason to be concerned, but I suspect that they are a very small minority of the population - and if you are one of this very small number of people then you should not be in the supermarket in the first place.
 
The MSM & significant elements of the population have been making a song and dance about the government easing the lockdown too early and not providing enough guidance; it is as if we have lost the ability to think for ourselves.
 
So what is going on, why are people running scared and demanding instructions ?     Have we become so used to all risks & decisions being managed /taken by somebody else that we cannot do it for ourselves ? 
As a society;-
 
    we have wherever possible removed any opportunity for people to hurt themselves ( the health & safety culture)
   
    we are increasingly always looking for somebody else to blame ( the compensation culture)
 
    we look to remove all financial risk - PCP cars, mobile phones, insurance etc all for £x per month
 
and finally, as a society we are increasingly not required to think for ourselves, in fact it is becoming almost socially illegal to have thoughts that do not agree with Current Acceptable Thought (CAT), how long before it is actually illegal to have thoughts that do not agree with the CAT ?
 
FDR in his first inaugural address used the line "we have nothing to fear except fear itself" if ever we need a politician to remind us of this - it is now.
 
Please talk me out of my perception and convince me that the British people are not losing the ability to think for themselves.
Edited by Bornagain

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10 minutes ago, Bornagain said:
FDR in his first inaugural address used the line "we have nothing to fear except fear itself" if ever we need a politician to remind us of this - it is now.
 
Please talk me out of my perception and convince me that the British people are not losing the ability to think for themselves.

You seem to be thinking solely about a low risk of death from it and expect 100% recovery. 

What if you get it but it has lasting effects on your health?

What if you can get it more than once and the first time dramatically increases your chances of dying the second time?

What if when you get it you then pass it to a loved one who dies from it?

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Posted (edited)

I'm largely in agreement as per posts on here that independent thought is something that is waning over time, or it may just have always been the case.

However, to play devils advocate maybe people have genuine concern (if they've known someone who has had it and have more first hand experience than I do based on MSM, forums such as this and conjecture).  Maybe they are capable thinkers but there's a minority that avidly spout the government line and it's becoming increasing hard to distinguish who may be in agreement with your disdain that you just 'play dumb' and follow the facebook mob.  Maybe they have ambition and know that any divergence from the 'norm' will hinder promotional chances (even though those promotion enablers might harbor the same thoughts and feelings against seemingly obvious oppression).

Or maybe, on a mathematical basis and anecdotal basis, the average person is at best pretty thick, and half of the population are even worse than that.

Edited by Covid19 and life to go
potato

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

You seem to be thinking solely about a low risk of death from it and expect 100% recovery. 

What if you get it but it has lasting effects on your health?

What if you can get it more than once and the first time dramatically increases your chances of dying the second time?

What if when you get it you then pass it to a loved one who dies from it?

What if, what if, what if.....

What if elephants learn to fly ? we'd all be covered in shit.

The reality is that we are (nearly) all going to get it at some point, so you may as well take steps to make sure you are less likely to be killed by it.

Other than that, short of living like a hermit for the rest of your life, then you need to just get on with your life and enjoy it.

Worrying about what might (but it unlikely to happen) will not do you any good at all.

We are all going to die of something, if we try to avoid all risks, then we don't have a life worth living.

Edited by Bornagain

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3 minutes ago, Covid19 and life to go said:

genuine concern

You only really have a genuine concern if you have a number of the risk factors.

Even the governments own discredited leader-of-the-charge admits that between 50&75% of those that die would be dead by the end of 2020 in any event.

We are treating the CV in an entirely disproportionate manner.

How many people will die of heart disease, or a stroke this and every year ? what is so special about a CV ? This sounds incredibly harsh but it is natures way of emptying the old peoples homes.

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1 minute ago, Bornagain said:

You only really have a genuine concern if you have a number of the risk factors.

Even the governments own discredited leader-of-the-charge admits that between 50&75% of those that die would be dead by the end of 2020 in any event.

We are treating the CV in an entirely disproportionate manner.

How many people will die of heart disease, or a stroke this and every year ? what is so special about a CV ? This sounds incredibly harsh but it is natures way of emptying the old peoples homes.

Oh yes I entirely agree, but I would say a large proportion of the population are different, and I'd put a lot of that into what you've said that it should have a number of factors.  For me as someone who likes stats, thinks methodical and gambles (or did) that would require some external risks, some employment risks, internal health and lifestyle factors, a belief that the government tells the truth just to name a handful.

Most will imply they have 'genuine concern' if they can just fathom up one reason they are 'scared' and that could be as simple as if I catch it no one will be able to look after my child for 2 weeks or perhaps they will be lonely forever if I die.  It is a concern, but it is not reasoned in a logical sense given the factors they should take on board.

I believe that most of the population (and I'm thinking 95%+) are abysmal at analytical thinking.  I could probably dig out something as simple as GCSE maths results over the last 30 years to partially prove the point (anything less than A, or possibly A* in the last ten) means you fall into the abysmal bracket.  That alone wouldn't suffice though, some develop in other ways (later education, on the job, growing out of 'wasted youth').

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Covid19 and life to go said:

believe that most of the population (and I'm thinking 95%+) are abysmal at analytical thinking

In the future, as more transactional type jobs are eliminated by automation, if 95% of the  population are abysmal at analytical thinking, then as a nation we are fucked.

I really hope you are wrong, but I suspect you might be correct.

It is as if we are deliberately trying to dumb down the population and make them into consumer drones who will do whatever the powers-that-be want.

Edited by Bornagain

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39 minutes ago, Bornagain said:

What if, what if, what if.....

What if elephants learn to fly ? we'd all be covered in shit.

The reality is that we are (nearly) all going to get it at some point, so you may as well take steps to make sure you are less likely to be killed by it.

Other than that, short of living like a hermit for the rest of your life, then you need to just get on with your life and enjoy it.

Worrying about what might (but it unlikely to happen) will not do you any good at all.

We are all going to die of something, if we try to avoid all risks, then we don't have a life worth living.

What a bizarre thread.

Opening post is suggesting people should try think for themselves. I have a go and put a couple of thoughts, then get the piss taken because they don't agree with the thread starter's view! Who obviously just wants people to agree with them and not think for themselves after all. O.o

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16 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

What a bizarre thread.

Opening post is suggesting people should try think for themselves. I have a go and put a couple of thoughts, then get the piss taken because they don't agree with the thread starter's view! Who obviously just wants people to agree with them and not think for themselves after all. O.o

OK, I apologise ,you are right, my reaction is uncalled for. 
 
I am not looking for another discussion on CV, we have done that to death and almost no new constructive views are coming out of all the pages of text that we are typing.  The forum (like society) is split along the lines of (a) its probably largely bullshit and most of the deaths are coming with or without CV (my camp) and (b) oh dear it might be the end of the world as we know it.
 
Whilst the CV thing is what prompted me to think, it is the slow transition of us as people into mindless drones that I am more interested in. 
 
What I hope to get out of the thread is an alternative view about where society is heading. Am I correct in thinking that we are slowly becoming non-thinking zombies who merely react in a predictable way to the PTB, or am I being too pessimistic ?
 
If I am correct, what can be done to help reverse it, or should we be happy with the way things are going ?

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I think over time therapeutics will make this less deadly for all even those in high risk groups 

This is a completely new disease with only a few months to work it out as of yet IMO most of those three months was wasted treating a respiratory disease ,when it` s looking more and more likely that whats doing the real damge is a blood disorder caused by the virus 

They had a senior Doctor from a local Covid ward on the box last night 

They said they seen so many people seemly recovering well ,only to then die suddenly of blood clots 

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The same people that worry about asteroid collisions, probably think nothing of driving drunk, whilst text messaging.

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3 hours ago, Bornagain said:
If I am correct, what can be done to help reverse it, or should we be happy with the way things are going ?

Incentivise self-reliance. All four of the issues you mentioned come out of that.

Currently it is both disincentivised and indoctrinated against. This means that the welfare state has to be savagely pruned and the education system needs radical reform. None of that is going to happen this side of a societal collapse, so sit back and enjoy the ride. At least it's more comfortable, overall, than the one the Soviets took.

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54 minutes ago, MrPin said:

The same people that worry about asteroid collisions, probably think nothing of driving drunk, whilst text messaging.

The same people worrying about Coronavirus are sending their kids out more often on their bikes

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I see lots of people or know of people that have been seeing non-house members through this lock down - I think the younger generation have been the least like drones and following the orders exactly. You're not going to keep boyfriends and girlfriends apart. This has restored some of my faith into humanity - there must be a rebellious percentage, or we will be drones.

 

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2 hours ago, Long time lurking said:

I think over time therapeutics will make this less deadly for all even those in high risk groups 

This is a completely new disease with only a few months to work it out as of yet IMO most of those three months was wasted treating a respiratory disease ,when it` s looking more and more likely that whats doing the real damge is a blood disorder caused by the virus 

They had a senior Doctor from a local Covid ward on the box last night 

They said they seen so many people seemly recovering well ,only to then die suddenly of blood clots 

Don't get it early has been my main thought until more is known about the disease. Gobsmacked to be honest at the snail's pace reaction in the first place and adoption of best practice therapeutics.  This virus does not look as bad as it did a couple of months ago but could still be a bugger. 

Medcram on YT covers the blood clotting issue very well, just getting into the therapeutics bit. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, onlyme said:

Don't get it early has been my main thought until more is known about the disease. Gobsmacked to be honest at the snail's pace reaction in the first place and adoption of best practice therapeutics.  This virus does not look as bad as it did a couple of months ago but could still be a bugger. 

Medcram on YT covers the blood clotting issue very well, just getting into the therapeutics bit. 

Posted in another thread but well worth the time 

As for therapeutics ,we are 3 months in ,IMO it`s way to early to have a best practice situation  

 

Edited by Long time lurking

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