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Long time lurking

Self employed CIS scheme

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Posted (edited)

I have spoke to a few people over the last few days who have had letters informing them they are eligible for the grant 80% of wage for three months none of them applied for this grant before they received the letter 

They said that it dose not ask when they were furloughed when applying online per the directions in the letter, basically HMRC are saying they are entitled to it ,all off them have not stopped working though, is this a fuck up or a HMRC catch all mail shot going to everyone registered on the CIS scheme and they will check against there records ? do they have records ? do employers of people on the CIS scheme report earnings in the same way as they would PAYE employees via RTI

They have all applied and were told the payment would be in the bank within 6 working days :o

Edited by Long time lurking

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2 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

I have spoke to a few people over the last few days who have had letters informing them they are eligible for the grant 80% of wage for three months none of them applied for this grant before they received the letter 

They said that it dose not ask when they were furloughed when applying online per the directions in the letter, basically HMRC are saying they are entitled to it ,all off them have not stopped working though, is this a fuck up or a HMRC catch all mail shot going to everyone registered on the CIS scheme and they will check against there records ? do they have records ? do employers of people on the CIS scheme report earnings in the same way as they would PAYE employees via RTI

They have all applied and was told the payment would be in the bank within 6 working days :o

Fraud 

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1 minute ago, Long time lurking said:

I have spoke to a few people over the last few days who have had letters informing them they are eligible for the grant 80% of wage for three months none of them applied for this grant before they received the letter 

They said that it dose not ask when they were furloughed when applying online per the directions in the letter, basically HMRC are saying they are entitled to it ,all off them have not stopped working though, is this a fuck up or a HMRC catch all mail shot going to everyone registered on the CIS scheme and they will check against there records ? do they have records ? do employers of people on the CIS scheme report earnings in the same way as they would PAYE employees via RTI

They have all applied and was told the payment would be in the bank within 6 working days :o

The self employed scheme is different to the others. If you submitted a tax return showing income from self employment you will automatically get the form.

And you were still allowed to work as well as claim. Some will do well.

Also, people on the CIS scheme, by definition, don't have employers.

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Just now, Wight Flight said:

The self employed scheme is different to the others. If you submitted a tax return showing income from self employment you will automatically get the form.

And you were still allowed to work as well as claim. Some will do well.

Cis is not like that though ,you pay 20% tax class 2 or 4 NI  on a weekly/monthly basis and claim back expenses at the end of the year 

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1 minute ago, Long time lurking said:

Cis is not like that though ,you pay 20% tax class 2 or 4 NI  on a weekly/monthly basis and claim back expenses at the end of the year 

Ah. Might be my error. I only understand the self employed scheme.

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3 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Fraud 

Nope they dont ask for dates if /when furloughed  they are telling them they are entitled to it sign here it`s yours 

They have all said they are not spending it be cause they  expect it to be claimed back as it don`t sound right but who knows 

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It looks like cis workers are included under the self employed.

https://www.osborneclarke.com/insights/proposed-protection-self-employed-will-statutory-self-employment-pay-work-contractors-agency-workers-alongside-job-retention-scheme/

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/306879

However, if they haven't had any drop in income because of Covid then claiming would be fraud.

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If you're having tax deducted through cis its because you're self employed. Therefore you're entitled to the self employed grant. The money is theirs and it's legitimate.

The 20% deduction is tax, which is just deducted to encourage construction workers to submit tax returns. They're still self employed, in fact if they're having cis deducted they can only be self employed, otherwise PAYE would be deducted.

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2 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Ah. Might be my error. I only understand the self employed scheme.

Well thats why i think it might be a fuck up as it`s classed as self-employed by HMRC

If HMRC have no records as in RTI declarations from the employer ( declare earnings at the end of the tax year  ,they would never know if they have worked those months or not 

One of the guys took it to a mate who`s a IFA and they looked into it and he said your entitled to it ,they are telling you that 

Seems fucked up to me 

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1 minute ago, Long time lurking said:

Well thats why i think it might be a fuck up as it`s classed as self-employed by HMRC

If HMRC have no records as in RTI declarations from the employer ( declare earnings at the end of the tax year  ,they would never know if they have worked those months or not 

One of the guys took it to a mate who`s a IFA and they looked into it and he said your entitled to it ,they are telling you that 

Seems fucked up to me 

The self employed are still allowed to work.

But they would be very wise to shorten their hours a bit do demonstrate that they have lost some income because of Covid.

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2 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

The self employed are still allowed to work.

But they would be very wise to shorten their hours a bit do demonstrate that they have lost some income because of Covid.

One will be ok`ish because they had the CCP virus and did not work for 3 weeks but as you say in your other post it`s dodgy ground 

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11 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

Well thats why i think it might be a fuck up as it`s classed as self-employed by HMRC

If HMRC have no records as in RTI declarations from the employer ( declare earnings at the end of the tax year  ,they would never know if they have worked those months or not 

One of the guys took it to a mate who`s a IFA and they looked into it and he said your entitled to it ,they are telling you that 

Seems fucked up to me 

Contractors in the Construction Industry have to make returns on behalf of their subbies. They are dealt with under a separate process from PAYE returns under RTI. 

CIS workers are classed as self employed but their payments are liable to 20% deductions because historically construction industry workers have not been the most compliant in submitting tax returns. The scheme originated back in the 1970s when the lump was a major source of tax evasion. In theory these are credits that can be offset against any tax that they are due to pay under self assesssment. The self employed are entitled to claim SEISS payments during the pandemic but the money will be included in the assessment of their future tax liabilities 

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