Jump to content
DOSBODS
  • Welcome to DOSBODS

     

    DOSBODS is free of any advertising.

    Ads are annoying, and - increasingly - advertising companies limit free speech online. DOSBODS Forums are completely free to use. Please create a free account to be able to access all the features of the DOSBODS community. It only takes 20 seconds!

     

IGNORED

Is the University bubble about to burst?


BearyBear

Recommended Posts

just skimmed this thread, has anyone pointed out that the economy is fucked and spending the next 3 or 4 years in Education may actually be sensible?

Then hope the economy is in better shape after graduation? I may even do it myself if I lose my job :)

If the Universities can survive a year, it may well be a boom time for them.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 245
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I have a sister who works in a Yorkshire Uni.  She has worked there for 25 years in Research.  She heads up a team.   For the fucking life of me I have no idea what she does.  They produce reports for the public sector.  Other public sector people check them.  Sometimes read them.  They read other public sector irrelevant shit.  They get funding from the EU.  She voted Remain. Obvs.   Not surprisingly her team are very worried about redundancy.  The Unis will be the first of the public sector to fall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've thought about doing a masters or an MBA a few times but no idea how I would fund it. Better to get an employer to pay for it if it's needed...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Darude said:

The number of 18-24 year olds in full time education has not quite doubled since 1992 from about 1m to 1.9m. Static since 2009. Note that this includes both higher and further education so not just universities:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/articles/howhasthestudentpopulationchanged/2016-09-20

Student numbers have almost doubled since 1992

Young people aged 18 to 24 in full-time education, seasonally adjusted, UK, March to May 1992 to May to July 2016

image.png.f1c8e22b211c0b8dc9eb5b55c08fbc1c.png

Ahhhh you are forgetting about the other Brown genius idea- forcing kids to stay in education til 18.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Loki said:

They want everyone dependent on and controlled by The State

In short, yes.

They want clever people to run stuff. No stupid people need apply.

Well, how do you select clever people? Well, a good education, PPE oxbridge, good private school....

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, spygirl said:

Ahhhh you are forgetting about the other Brown genius idea- forcing kids to stay in education til 18.

True, well according to Wikipedia 76% of 16-18 year olds were already in education or training when the 2008 act to require this for all of them was passed, so it was about 1 in 4 who were affected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_of_school_leaving_age_in_England_and_Wales#Education_and_Skills_Act_2008

Cohort size in the UK is about 750k per year so 1/4 x 2 school years x 750k = an extra 375k created by the 2008 act

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Shamone said:

Couldn’t believe it myself. I didn’t think Hereford even had a uni. Christ.

And I live here. My wife couldn’t believe it when I showed her. But you do get an interactive notice board thing.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

Happens quite a lot now.

Leave school.

Year out.

4 year degree.

Year or two out/working in dead end jobs.

2 year Masters

Year or two fucking about in dead end jobs or in non-permie research roles.

PhD - can take more than 3 years.

.....and boom, your 35 years old looking to start your career. I know someone who was 40 by the time they got all the abover over them, but they had rich parents.

4 year bachelors and 2 year masters are not typical in England, 3 and 1 year is still the norm. Given how expensive it is per year of taught education in the UK there is an incentive to get in and out quickly, your rich acquaintance is unusual.

It's a bit strange that people are talking about PhDs as if it's a common thing, there are only 100k of them in the UK at any given time so about 1/40th of the student population. PhD funding is for 3 or 4 years and when the money's gone you get 1 year of unpaid time before the university ends your registration, that puts a hard limit on how long it can take. It's not like the US where lab heads use PhD students as slave labour for 7-10 years and fund them out of other grants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Darude said:

4 year bachelors and 2 year masters are not typical in England, 3 and 1 year is still the norm. Given how expensive it is per year of taught education in the UK there is an incentive to get in and out quickly, your rich acquaintance is unusual.

It's a bit strange that people are talking about PhDs as if it's a common thing, there are only 100k of them in the UK at any given time so about 1/40th of the student population. PhD funding is for 3 or 4 years and when the money's gone you get 1 year of unpaid time before the university ends your registration, that puts a hard limit on how long it can take. It's not like the US where lab heads use PhD students as slave labour for 7-10 years and fund them out of other grants.

That's about 95k too many.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Darude said:

Depends on the job, a PhD is training to be an independent researcher, so if you want to be one of those (especially to lead a research team) it's usually necessary. I was leading a research team in industry by 30, never would have got that job without having done a PhD in the subject. The step up in wages from lab scientist to leader of a research team was large - higher basic pay, bigger % bonus plus car allowance and long term incentive shares which vest after 3 years meaning more than double the total compensation all in.

Academic training isn't right for everybody, but it does work for some people.

Yes Darude, but you are the exception to the rule...you don't need a PhD to be an independent researcher, and most PhDs don't end up leading research groups in industry in the area they studied as by getting stuck in the academic `no mans land` they don't transition quickly post-PhD into industry, the result being they get left behind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 21/05/2020 at 09:41, CVG said:

On my last module, I was the only one attending most times. And I only did that because I felt bad for the tutor.

This then begs the questions why were the students on this course with such lack of engagement?

If a) it was to learn the subject matter from an expert in the field they were missing out, and if b) they could get certificated by taking such an approach the course was unfit for purpose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 21/05/2020 at 14:58, sancho panza said:

On another matter,I'm currently studying a one year non honours BSc,cost is circa £2800 for one year for four mdodules each 20 credits.

That's a long way from £9000.

I've heard of MSc's being sold at £5k-Critical Care Paramedic.Just sayin.........

 

MSc`s are a great `cash cow` for unis, they simply cobble together some third year undergrad modules (taught independently from undergraduates of course), throw in a six month student project/thesis, and `Bobs your mothers brother`....no extra planning, and as the majority of the time is student focused learning, very little extra staff contact time to pay for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 22/05/2020 at 09:10, Harley said:

Bottom line is the taxpayer pays the loan write-offs while the sector trousers the massive increase in revenue, profitability, and earnings.  The old system would have been cheaper.  But then that wizard of finance (take your pick) wanted temporarily lower unemployment and the taxpayers could eff themselves.

Bottom line is exactly that, instead of paying individuals unemployment benefit to the individual (and having high youth unemployment stats you can't ignore), it is paid directly to the university's...the policy was never about having a better educated society/workforce, but to solve a political `hot potatoe`.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 19/05/2020 at 20:07, Talking Monkey said:

I've heard this a lot about PHD types they finish up and there are not many takers for them which surprises them as they have probably had their egos boosted that they will get some epic job after getting their doctorate, when in reality a lot of the working world is not interested in them and would prefer a fresh 21 year old with just a first degree

It happened to me back around 1990. I decided I actually quite fancied joining one of the big banks graduate recruitment programmes and was told I was too old at 25.
 

I try telling youngsters this at every relevant opportunity but very few people seem to get it. Doesn’t help that my wife always pipes up that she’s sure things aren’t like that nowadays. Really? Really?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 22/05/2020 at 23:26, sancho panza said:

Yeah thats my view.Govt will bail people's tummies out first,then homes second,josb thrid.Unis and councils are way at the back of the line,Everyone knows how inefficient they are.

Amazing how deep some of these unis have got themselves in trying to get 100% of the upside.

Places like Leicesr and Coventry are domianted by the Uni's.

But this is why uni VC`s are on salary packages comparable to business leaders, for their business acumen...you can't buy this expertise for `old rope`...or have I got that the wrong way around?! :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, sleepwello'nights said:

seems there are two quite separate purposes for education. One is the training needed to perform a job and the other is for the enjoyment of discovering the subject that interests you. Sometimes they may happily coincide. The current distortion is, I feel, because further education has been hijacked for political purposes.

Couldn't have put it better myself, and perhaps in time we will move back to the old system of Polys/Unis that was fit for purpose, and still appears to be the case in some nations I.e. Germany.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 20/05/2020 at 21:23, MrXxxx said:

Maybe for initial offers but come `clearing` [when universities tot up all the firm acceptances and then know how many `spare` places they have] they can lower the conditional grades required. In addition, this year the government/OfS has just announced that unis will be able to increase their number of places by 5% above their previously agreed target...factor that in with the reduced numbers of overseas/UK students, and those part way through a course who will not be returning, and I think you have a nice recipe for a `bun fight`!

You forget there are no a levels being sat this year, people are being awarded their predicted grades.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Castlevania
18 minutes ago, Melchett said:

It happened to me back around 1990. I decided I actually quite fancied joining one of the big banks graduate recruitment programmes and was told I was too old at 25.
 

I try telling youngsters this at every relevant opportunity but very few people seem to get it. Doesn’t help that my wife always pipes up that she’s sure things aren’t like that nowadays. Really? Really?

You wouldn’t get on the grad scheme with a phd. They might still hire you but in a specific role and you’d be more junior than someone of the same age they’d hired straight from university.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

You wouldn’t get on the grad scheme with a phd. They might still hire you but in a specific role and you’d be more junior than someone of the same age they’d hired straight from university.

 

Quite possibly. But back then I was specifically ruled out by all the usual suspects on account of my age.

Then I was ruled out of the civil service fast stream because I didn’t go to oxbridge (my brother and I applied, same age, almost identical cvs except I had relevant work experience and science degrees and went to Surrey/London, vs humanities at cambridge Cambridge and a gap year. Both passed the entrance exams with similar marks, I may even have scored higher iirc. I wasn’t even interviewed. He got recruited).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Castlevania
22 minutes ago, Melchett said:

Quite possibly. But back then I was specifically ruled out by all the usual suspects on account of my age.

Then I was ruled out of the civil service fast stream because I didn’t go to oxbridge (my brother and I applied, same age, almost identical cvs except I had relevant work experience and science degrees and went to Surrey/London, vs humanities at cambridge Cambridge and a gap year. Both passed the entrance exams with similar marks, I may even have scored higher iirc. I wasn’t even interviewed. He got recruited).

Yeah for grad schemes it’s an age thing. You can still be hired into specific roles - I know of two people who I thought would stay in academia for life who in their late twenties/early thirties decided to get a proper job and both ended up working as quants for an investment bank and a hedge fund respectively. They were physics/maths geeks though. A PhD in English Lit and being that age would invariably give you no chance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Melchett said:

You forget there are no a levels being sat this year, people are being awarded their predicted grades.

Hi Melchet,

no I didn't, as I made a further comment that highlighted this point...and as I presume you are alluding to,(and agree with), this further increases the variance in the potential outcomes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

Hi Melchet,

no I didn't, as I made a further comment that highlighted this point...and as I presume you are alluding to,(and agree with), this further increases the variance in the potential outcomes.

Sorry, I missed your later comment, but mine wasn’t directed specifically at your comment but rather at the numerous posts suggesting that unis will be adjusting their entries and criteria based on results and there will be people going through clearing.

I don’t think these apply anymore as essentially everyone will be getting the grades they were predicted when they made their UCAS  applications. I’m not even sure how clearing would work now, as I’m not sure what disconnect there is between predicted grades and offered grades. I know Oxbridge used to make silly low offers to some people, but I can’t see how that would lead to people going into clearing now. How many were offered (and accepted) places with grades significantly higher than their predicted grades? Not many I’d reckon, but I could be wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PatronizingGit
15 hours ago, spygirl said:

Ahhhh you are forgetting about the other Brown genius idea- forcing kids to stay in education til 18.

When you compare the FTE ed till 18, the University bubble, disability claims rising x500 since 1980 and the self employed tax credit scams, you really end up asking yourself, like for like, did unemployment ever fall from its 1981 highs, or did we just put 2 of those 3 million into various benefits and full time educayshun

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...