Is the University bubble about to burst?

[One percent]

Didn’t really know where to post this, but well done Swansea for what has got to be the most egregious pieces of “research”. 
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8357149/Men-longer-ring-fingers-face-lower-risk-dying-Covid-19.html

Men with longer ring fingers face a lower risk of dying from Covid-19 and are more likely to suffer mild symptoms, researchers claim.

Academics found coronavirus death rates in countries where men have shorter ring fingers were up to a third higher.

[Wight Flight]

11 minutes ago, One percent said:

Didn’t really know where to post this, but well done Swansea for what has got to be the most egregious pieces of “research”. 
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8357149/Men-longer-ring-fingers-face-lower-risk-dying-Covid-19.html

Men with longer ring fingers face a lower risk of dying from Covid-19 and are more likely to suffer mild symptoms, researchers claim.

Academics found coronavirus death rates in countries where men have shorter ring fingers were up to a third higher.

Did they test for this by shoving their finger up their ring?

[One percent]

Just now, Wight Flight said:

Did they test for this by shoving their finger up their ring?

  probably. Or they may have used a peg. 

[MrXxxx]

16 hours ago, sancho panza said:

But only universities can provide an intellectual environment that pushes students beyond their comfort zone, and forces them to engage with new ideas and to learn more about the world and their place in it than they ever imagined possible.

I think you have `hit the nail on the head` SP, the only thing I would add is in regard to the above statement...the above is limited to a minority, with the majority being either a) goal focused (i.e just want the qualification), or b) disinterested/lacking in motivation for something that takes a bit of effort (I.e cannot be bought)....

...hence why university is not for all, and should never have been.

[MrXxxx]

15 hours ago, spygirl said:

Just like a business .... yeah right.

All the business I work are very careful on splashing out on capital spend such as buildings.

And they are very aware of how much each bum on a seat costs.

The HE sector is not behaving like a business. They are behaving like a loon with a credit card.

 

 

...or an amateur BTL `entrepreneur`!

[MrXxxx]

11 hours ago, Melchett said:

There is a huge dropout rate.

And it’s shit because you have no money, no power, no guarantee of a successful outcome, everyone treats you like shit, the senior academics have  the power to end your career if you don’t (sometimes not just metaphorically) suck their cock... everything you can imagine that is the worst thing about work and study combined, all at once. For months, maybe a year or two. 

True, assuming you are a `one trick pony`, and that's the problem with most PhDs hence a) poor employment opportunities postdoc, and b) why they are treated so badly by their employers...

...like a lover, if they show they are `needy` you treat them badly, if you know they can `walk out the door` at a moments notice you give them the respect they deserve.

[MrXxxx]

Read yesterday that the University of Manchester are estimating that Covid will cause them a £150 mil loss over the next year. As a result they are `offering` voluntary severance, unpaid secondment/holidays, and optional wage reductions...well the SMT on their highly inflated salaries of £200-£350k have volunteered a 20% cut so why not some poor/lowly technician on £20k?!

[sleepwello'nights]

On 26/05/2020 at 21:27, One percent said:

The argument is, and i partly agree, is that the student needs the time to perculate and process ideas. What i don't agree with is calling five hours lecture time a full time course. 

\\pedant\ 

Spelling!  Percolate is the correct spelling

\\Pedant\off

A term I would use to describe the process is digest. To me learning new concepts is an active process, even though it may happen subconsciously, rather than percolate which to me seems to imply a more passive process.

 

[sleepwello'nights]

This post contains a lot of criticism about the current state of University education. I always felt that I'd missed out on an important area of development by not going to university. From the my life experiences when I look back I now realise that the chip on my shoulder about it was self inflicted.

It would have opened doors for me that I found firmly shut. Regardless of the difference it would have made to my life and career things turned out ok for me anyway.

Those of you that have been to university, do you think it has had a positive affect on your life?

People I encountered in my work life that had been to university seemed to me to be more confident in their approach to work. My sister obtained a degree but never found it useful in career terms. She then went on a did a post graduate degree, again she never found it useful in career terms.

[Wight Flight]

1 hour ago, sleepwello'nights said:

This post contains a lot of criticism about the current state of University education. I always felt that I'd missed out on an important area of development by not going to university. From the my life experiences when I look back I now realise that the chip on my shoulder about it was self inflicted.

It would have opened doors for me that I found firmly shut. Regardless of the difference it would have made to my life and career things turned out ok for me anyway.

Those of you that have been to university, do you think it has had a positive affect on your life?

People I encountered in my work life that had been to university seemed to me to be more confident in their approach to work. My sister obtained a degree but never found it useful in career terms. She then went on a did a post graduate degree, again she never found it useful in career terms.

Interesting. Do you actually know if the people you know have a degree, or do you assume they have?

Most people assume I have one. I don't know why.

[sleepwello'nights]

3 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Interesting. Do you actually know if the people you know have a degree, or do you assume they have?

Most people assume I have one. I don't know why.

Those I'm referring to definitely had been to university and been granted degrees. Mind you this was before the introduction of tuition fees. 

[Sasquatch]

2 hours ago, sleepwello'nights said:

This post contains a lot of criticism about the current state of University education. I always felt that I'd missed out on an important area of development by not going to university. From the my life experiences when I look back I now realise that the chip on my shoulder about it was self inflicted.

It would have opened doors for me that I found firmly shut. Regardless of the difference it would have made to my life and career things turned out ok for me anyway.

Those of you that have been to university, do you think it has had a positive affect on your life?

People I encountered in my work life that had been to university seemed to me to be more confident in their approach to work. My sister obtained a degree but never found it useful in career terms. She then went on a did a post graduate degree, again she never found it useful in career terms.

When I went to University (mid 80's) it was a relatively rare thing (less than 10%?). It was before tuition fees so I dodged that bullet. It was incredibly cheap to live as the students tended to live in pretty tatty terraced houses with minimal mod cons. No cars, no mobile phones. Just enough money for beer and gigs. I did just enough work to get through with a 2:2. My degree was vocational and led directly to a job upon graduation. I wouldn't have got the job without a degree, nor the future career progression (at least the initial part of that **). I worked for three firms post degree before setting up our own business 15 years ago.

Most importantly I met Mrs S there!

and I'm still good friends with about 10 people off the course and we meet up occasionally.

** edit: I also gained a relevant post degree professional qualification. This was the other important element for career progression

[spygirl]

50 years ago, only a few people went to Uni.

In the early 90s, when I started proper work,  only a handful of the senior managers had degrees. These were people in their 40s/50, so would have graduated in the late 60s / 70s. Most were pretty smart/sharp. I dont know if this was down to their degree or the opportunities it offered i.e. fast tracking/lots of training etc etc

The technical people all had engineering degrees of one sort or another.

In the mid 2000s I was on a contract near large finsec org. Now gone.

I was chatting to a  manager of 20/30 standing. he was having a whinge about the quality of the grads he was getting. I asked what heir subject were. He reeled of a list of pointless make-education courses - sports science, arts n humanities. This was down to the org only recruiting grads but not paying enough to take the choice ones.

As the lower end of He, which push out 70%+ of UG , with crap degrees, badly taught continue to flood the job market, the number of idiots with degrees will overwhelm the clever people with degrees.

A lot of well paying employers have basically drawn a line under the HE sector by only recruiting from specific courses at specific Unis.

You can expect the other employers to follow suit as their experience of UG worsens.

 

 

 

[Hardhat]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/29/soas-to-slash-budgets-and-staff-as-debt-crisis-worsens-in-pandemic

[Sasquatch]

There is a newly built student flats complex near us that has one bed penthouse apartments at £450 per week. I kid you not.

I believe they were built to attract the overseas students from the middle east. Oh dear....

[sancho panza]

6 hours ago, Hardhat said:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/29/soas-to-slash-budgets-and-staff-as-debt-crisis-worsens-in-pandemic

I'm surprised I thought that palce was really trendy.

SOme of the figures are impressive.I do wodner why we let people who are so clearly bad at maths teach the next generation.Impressive pension deficit.

 

'The school’s internal forecasts show falls in tuition fee income ranging from £9m to £18m next year, with the budget attempting to cover £14.9m losses based on 50% less from international students and 15% less from domestic and EU students..

One department head said that so far “very few” applicants had taken up offers they had received from Soas, compared with previous years, because of the Covid-19 outbreak.

Soas’s annual accounts for 2018-19 were delayed by five months beyond the OfS’s deadline for publication, and finally signed off by its trustees on 15 May.

The accounts reveal a headline deficit of £19.1m in 2018-19, but excluding changes in pension liabilities, the annual deficit was £6.2m, driven by a £2m fall in tuition fees from UK and EU students, as the number of undergraduates enrolled fell to its lowest level since 2012.

[sancho panza]

12 hours ago, spygirl said:

50 years ago, only a few people went to Uni.

 

As the lower end of He, which push out 70%+ of UG , with crap degrees, badly taught continue to flood the job market, the number of idiots with degrees will overwhelm the clever people with degrees.

A lot of well paying employers have basically drawn a line under the HE sector by only recruiting from specific courses at specific Unis.

You can expect the other employers to follow suit as their experience of UG worsens.

Makes perfesct sense.

I got a crap hsitory degree 30 years back.Less than worthless as it gave me an inflated opinion of my worth.

[MrXxxx]

8 hours ago, sancho panza said:

Makes perfesct sense.

I got a crap hsitory degree 30 years back.Less than worthless as it gave me an inflated opinion of my worth.

And unfortunately I believe that's even more prevalent now, the only difference is the standards and value of an Undergraduate degree are even lower...don't get me wrong, those attaining at the higher grade boundaries are still as good as before, but those at the lower really do not deserve to be awarded a degree as is `cheats` the others.

[sleepwello'nights]

16 hours ago, Hardhat said:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/29/soas-to-slash-budgets-and-staff-as-debt-crisis-worsens-in-pandemic

"Emoluments of the Director               Year ended 31 July 2019 £           Year ended 31 July 2018 £

Basic salary - Baroness Valerie Amos                              238,989                               234,099

Pension contributions to USS - Baroness Valerie Amos 16,499                                 33,441

Residence provided                                                                54,200                               54,080

Total                                                                                        309,688                              321,620 

The School Director has been appointed in accordance with the Schools’ Standing Orders. The appointment reflected the School’s need to secure and retain a leader of exceptional calibre who has the skills, experience and personal qualities to assume the responsibilities of School Director and to undertake these fully and well.

The remuneration package for the School Director has been agreed by the Senior Staff Remuneration Committee and the Board of Trustees."

There's a big saving that could be made!

[spygirl]

9 hours ago, sancho panza said:

Makes perfesct sense.

I got a crap hsitory degree 30 years back.Less than worthless as it gave me an inflated opinion of my worth.

I have heard a grad reel out ye olde 'I'm one of the top 10% by education...' 

Ignoring that 35% go to uni. And theres other ways of learning beyond going to HE.

 

[spygirl]

1 hour ago, MrXxxx said:

And unfortunately I believe that's even more prevalent now, the only difference is the standards and value of an Undergraduate degree are even lower...don't get me wrong, those attaining at the higher grade boundaries are still as good as before, but those at the lower really do not deserve to be awarded a degree as is `cheats` the others.

I dont think it cheats anyone. There was never anything magical about a degree.

You have a few years after graduating before the magic escapes from a degree.

Nothing worse than a checkout person with a non  vocational degree, banging on about how they are 'not using their education'

 

[Frank Hovis]

1 hour ago, spygirl said:

I dont think it cheats anyone. There was never anything magical about a degree.

You have a few years after graduating before the magic escapes from a degree.

Nothing worse than a checkout person with a non  vocational degree, banging on about how they are 'not using their education'

 

There absolutely was. As you have just said in your second paragraph!

This was at a time when only ?2% of the population went to university and there was big academic competition for places so hiring someone with a decent degree from a decent uni gave you reassurance that you were recruiting one of the top 2% in terms of intelligence.

As soon as Blair threw the doors open that then only gave you reassurance that you were recruiting one of the top 50% in terms of intelligence. Which has pretty much zero value; you can work that out from the quality of a handwritten letter of application and a few basic maths tests.

It was never really about the degree; it was about a good uni accepting your application in the first place acting like a "credit check" for potential employers.

When everyone knows that that "credit check" is very much these days a literal credit check then its value evaporates.

[MrXxxx]

2 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

There absolutely was. As you have just said in your second paragraph!

This was at a time when only ?2% of the population went to university and there was big academic competition for places so hiring someone with a decent degree from a decent uni gave you reassurance that you were recruiting one of the top 2% in terms of intelligence.

As soon as Blair threw the doors open that then only gave you reassurance that you were recruiting one of the top 50% in terms of intelligence. Which has pretty much zero value; you can work that out from the quality of a handwritten letter of application and a few basic maths tests.

It was never really about the degree; it was about a good uni accepting your application in the first place acting like a "credit check" for potential employers.

When everyone knows that that "credit check" is very much these days a literal credit check then its value evaporates.

Agree, but regarding intelligence it depends how you measure it...I know many academics and although learned, I wouldn't say they were particularly intelligent!

[Frank Hovis]

16 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

Agree, but regarding intelligence it depends how you measure it...I know many academics and although learned, I wouldn't say they were particularly intelligent!

Absolutely so.

I was going to say a mixture of academic and mathematical intelligence - words and numbers.

There is no guarantee of social / emotional intelligence.

[Wight Flight]

3 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

There absolutely was. As you have just said in your second paragraph!

This was at a time when only ?2% of the population went to university and there was big academic competition for places so hiring someone with a decent degree from a decent uni gave you reassurance that you were recruiting one of the top 2% in terms of intelligence.

As soon as Blair threw the doors open that then only gave you reassurance that you were recruiting one of the top 50% in terms of intelligence. Which has pretty much zero value; you can work that out from the quality of a handwritten letter of application and a few basic maths tests.

It was never really about the degree; it was about a good uni accepting your application in the first place acting like a "credit check" for potential employers.

When everyone knows that that "credit check" is very much these days a literal credit check then its value evaporates.

My ex colleague went to uni about 45 years ago. He recounted his professor's advice that they would learn as much from their discussions in the student union bar as they would in lectures.

I doubt that is true anymore.