Is the University bubble about to burst?

[Don Coglione]

6 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

My ex colleague went to uni about 45 years ago. He recounted his professor's advice that they would learn as much from their discussions in the student union bar as they would in lectures.

I doubt that is true anymore.

When I went to university (drop the daft, Australian "uni", please) about 35 years ago, everyone was too pissed to have any kind of discussion in the student union bar. This was at a fairly well-respected establishment, at which I studied a very respected course with a decent work-load. Most of the lecturers and tutors were fucking useless slackers and shysters too, although there were a few who lived and breathed their subject and were somewhat inspirational.

An entirely disappointing experience, overall, although I would not have been offered my first few jobs without a degree, and quite a bit of the course content was relevant to these jobs also. A full grant, topped up by a decent summer job and no tuition fees made for a palatable equation. 

Would I go to university today? Would I fuck.

[Frank Hovis]

27 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

My ex colleague went to uni about 45 years ago. He recounted his professor's advice that they would learn as much from their discussions in the student union bar as they would in lectures.

I doubt that is true anymore.

Indeed not.

It is also a great and good culture shock for each of the people who were the cleverest in their schools to find that they are no longer special; everyone was that.

[Don Coglione]

13 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Indeed not.

It is also a great and good culture shock for each of the people who were the cleverest in their schools to find that they are no longer special; everyone was that.

Maybe at Oxbridge, Frank, but elsewhere, absolutely not.

[spygirl]

3 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

My ex colleague went to uni about 45 years ago. He recounted his professor's advice that they would learn as much from their discussions in the student union bar as they would in lectures.

I doubt that is true anymore.

I'm not sure if it ever true.

Most students dont know much.

The real learning with any degree happens when you go out and start doing the job connected to the degree.

 

[sancho panza]

1 hour ago, spygirl said:

I'm not sure if it ever true.

Most students dont know much.

The real learning with any degree happens when you go out and start doing the job connected to the degree.

 

Absolutely,I did a Paramedic degree(work paid).I learned far more on the road with other para's than I did at Uni where they taught me a load of theoretical stuff that to be frankly honest,you jsut don't use.We spent a while learning how morphine works and yet when you actually use it,the only things that matter are the dosage,the indications and the contraindications.

Like Nursing.it should never have become a Uni degree but rather something you study if needed on day release.

Rumours have reached me that some big hospital trusts want to go back to the old ways of teaching nursing for the simple reason that the £50k debt for a £25k job has put a lot of talented people off studying.

Allowing students to run up debts they will never pay has always struck me as utter insanity

 

[Wight Flight]

Interestingly, every university flight jnr has shown any interest in has been in contact recently. Two have even called him.

Smacks of desperation.

[sancho panza]

Just now, Wight Flight said:

Interestingly, every university flight jnr has shown any interest in has been in contact recently. Two have even called him.

Smacks of desperation.

looking at relatively liquid places like Edinburgh being in the mire,you can't imagine what the books of some of the less well connected places will be like.

They're depserate for the £9k

On anotehr matter,I was chatting to an expereinced paramedic once who said she'd failed a student because it clearly wasn't the job for him and he was awful at it.End of first year.Turns out the Uni got someone to sign him off for his first year,he went back paid his next £9k and then he failed the second year.She said it was jsut a scam to get another £9k out of him.

Brutal.The Uni's will crap onanyone to keep the teat flowing.

[spygirl]

17 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

Absolutely,I did a Paramedic degree(work paid).I learned far more on the road with other para's than I did at Uni where they taught me a load of theoretical stuff that to be frankly honest,you jsut don't use.We spent a while learning how morphine works and yet when you actually use it,the only things that matter are the dosage,the indications and the contraindications.

Like Nursing.it should never have become a Uni degree but rather something you study if needed on day release.

Rumours have reached me that some big hospital trusts want to go back to the old ways of teaching nursing for the simple reason that the £50k debt for a £25k job has put a lot of talented people off studying.

Allowing students to run up debts they will never pay has always struck me as utter insanity

 

The situation with nursing is nuts.

Ideal for some HNDish setup for 2 years study post 18, with a a few days onsite/ practise.

Then you could offer day release in specific areas - say, paedo care, ICU etc.

 

[Wight Flight]

2 minutes ago, spygirl said:

The situation with nursing is nuts.

Ideal for some HNDish setup for 2 years study post 18, with a a few days onsite/ practise.

Then you could offer day release in specific areas - say, paedo care, ICU etc.

 

Is that a real course?

[sancho panza]

Just now, spygirl said:

The situation with nursing is nuts.

Ideal for some HNDish setup for 2 years study post 18, with a a few days onsite/ practise.

Then you could offer day release in specific areas - say, paedo care, ICU etc.

 

was speaking to an A&E sister a while back and she said on that shift she'd got two nurses who she described as 'you can't undo stupid'.

She also said she had a couple of Healthcare assisstants who were brillaint but didn't want Uni due to kids/family etc. who were really talented.Bulk of healthcare at our grade is talking to people.Whether that's taking a hsitory,splitting up people fighting or dealing with irate relatives.They can't put those lessons in a text book sadly.Lot of people leave uni then realise what a slog medical work is and then give up.

HND is right.Nurses and bog standard paramedics don't need to know about potassium movig in and out of nerve cells.

[Option5]

I left school at 16 and did an electrical engineering apprenticeship. A friend did the uni thing in electrical engineering, he ended up working with me some years later 🙂

We both concluded that the only part of our education we used on a regular basis was Ohm's law and we learned that at 'O' level.

[sleepwello'nights]

18 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

 

HND is right.Nurses and bog standard paramedics don't need to know about potassium movig in and out of nerve cells.

Its not just nursing. Accountancy is the same. Used to be an "A" level entry then day release. The principal of the college I attended was a professionally qualified accountant who reckoned the technician course I took was almost the same level as the professional qualification was when he sat it. 

It then changed to graduate entry only in mid 70s. I think the professional bodies have since realised that graduate entry only was a retrograde step and their entry requirements are now more pragmatic.

[spygirl]

2 hours ago, sancho panza said:

was speaking to an A&E sister a while back and she said on that shift she'd got two nurses who she described as 'you can't undo stupid'.

She also said she had a couple of Healthcare assisstants who were brillaint but didn't want Uni due to kids/family etc. who were really talented.Bulk of healthcare at our grade is talking to people.Whether that's taking a hsitory,splitting up people fighting or dealing with irate relatives.They can't put those lessons in a text book sadly.Lot of people leave uni then realise what a slog medical work is and then give up.

HND is right.Nurses and bog standard paramedics don't need to know about potassium movig in and out of nerve cells.

Isn't that the problem with education? Idiots can go thru the system.

HE is providing a cover rather than a filter.

One of the idiot teachers at my Son's primary had fucked  his test scores. Real basic 10yo stuff. Oh I dont have gcse maths she said

Shed been to a uni but had wiggled thru without the gcse maths. Then did her pgce. And still no filtering.

I mean, how the fuck?

1 hour ago, sleepwello'nights said:

Its not just nursing. Accountancy is the same. Used to be an "A" level entry then day release. The principal of the college I attended was a professionally qualified accountant who reckoned the technician course I took was almost the same level as the professional qualification was when he sat it. 

It then changed to graduate entry only in mid 70s. I think the professional bodies have since realised that graduate entry only was a retrograde step and their entry requirements are now more pragmatic.

Not retrograde.

Fails to add any value.

[One percent]

2 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

Is that a real course?

It’s a special course for entry into grooming gangs. 

[Don Coglione]

12 minutes ago, One percent said:

It’s a special course for entry into grooming gangs. 

Is grooming covered by the PhD in hairdressing?

[Popuplights]

5 hours ago, sancho panza said:

Rumours have reached me that some big hospital trusts want to go back to the old ways of teaching nursing for the simple reason that the £50k debt for a £25k job has put a lot of talented people off studying.

Allowing students to run up debts they will never pay has always struck me as utter insanity

My no.2 daughter is studying to be a midwife. She is in exactly this situation. She will be an excellent midwife, who will never pay off that ridiculous loan. Maybe the government will print some magic money and pay them all off, who knows. Anything is possible post covid.

[Popuplights]

4 hours ago, Option5 said:

We both concluded that the only part of our education we used on a regular basis was Ohm's law and we learned that at 'O' level.

As a chartered electrical engineer of 30 years experience, and still plying the trade, I agree!!

[MrXxxx]

9 hours ago, spygirl said:

One of the idiot teachers at my Son's primary had fucked  his test scores. Real basic 10yo stuff. Oh I dont have gcse maths she said

Shed been to a uni but had wiggled thru without the gcse maths. Then did her pgce. And still no filtering

But why do you need GCSE maths as a babysitter/childcare assistant?...as that's what a lot of parents now view schools as....

....and god forbid that they themselves have to be part responsible for their childs education at home by helping `Jonny/Jane` with their homework, or even insisting that they do it in the first place!

[Wight Flight]

Another point to consider for this years potential intake is money.

Massive though the student loan is, it doesn't cover everything. They need to work the summer to get a reserve built up.

But there are no traditional student jobs available. Would you want to go to university knowing you probably couldn't even afford a couple of pints a week?

[Castlevania]

20 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Another point to consider for this years potential intake is money.

Massive though the student loan is, it doesn't cover everything. They need to work the summer to get a reserve built up.

But there are no traditional student jobs available. Would you want to go to university knowing you probably couldn't even afford a couple of pints a week?

Parents are supposed to top up the loan. That’s why those from poorer households receive bigger loans.

[spygirl]

1 hour ago, MrXxxx said:

But why do you need GCSE maths as a babysitter/childcare assistant?...as that's what a lot of parents now view schools as....

....and god forbid that they themselves have to be part responsible for their childs education at home by helping `Jonny/Jane` with their homework, or even insisting that they do it in the first place!

So you dont do a large wall display on fractions with a couple of wrong answers.

 

[Wight Flight]

22 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

Parents are supposed to top up the loan. That’s why those from poorer households receive bigger loans.

Good luck with that. The loan is based on last year's earnings.

Apart from the odd outlier, all of flight snr's cohort needed summer jobs to make ends meet.

[spygirl]

8 hours ago, Popuplights said:

My no.2 daughter is studying to be a midwife. She is in exactly this situation. She will be an excellent midwife, who will never pay off that ridiculous loan. Maybe the government will print some magic money and pay them all off, who knows. Anything is possible post covid.

Assuming she starts working ASAP then she will.

 

[Dave Bloke]

23 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

My ex colleague went to uni about 45 years ago. He recounted his professor's advice that they would learn as much from their discussions in the student union bar as they would in lectures.

I doubt that is true anymore.

The only people you'd have met in the Nelson Mandela bar at my Uni were dyed in the wool lefties droning on about Marxist Pol Potism or some such. I only one

set foot in the SU Bar and it was awful. We engineers drank in real pubs or nothing.

I went to Uni in the early 80s. I think around 5% of 18 year olds went to uni back then and even so there were people who were out of the depth. Lord knows what it is like with 50% of school leavers.

I did electronics. Full grant plus housing benefit etc. Didn't work in holidays as I went on the dole. I didn't do too much in the way of electronics in the end but had done it at A level and this was enough to take me through the 3 years. Instead I did Unix, TCP/IP networking, C programming  embedded systems, we even did OO (using Ada + Modula 2) and I'm basically doing the same thing nearly 40 years later so my degree both got me a job and has kept me working all my life in what is supposed to be a fast changing environment. I don't do C these days but a derived language, although will be back on 'C' soon as I'm doing IOTs on the new project.

I'm hoping to make it to retirement without much change.

[sancho panza]

40 minutes ago, Dave Bloke said:

The only people you'd have met in the Nelson Mandela bar at my Uni were dyed in the wool lefties droning on about Marxist Pol Potism or some such. I only one

set foot in the SU Bar and it was awful. We engineers drank in real pubs or nothing.

I went to Uni in the early 80s. I think around 5% of 18 year olds went to uni back then and even so there were people who were out of the depth. Lord knows what it is like with 50% of school leavers.

I did electronics. Full grant plus housing benefit etc. Didn't work in holidays as I went on the dole. I didn't do too much in the way of electronics in the end but had done it at A level and this was enough to take me through the 3 years. Instead I did Unix, TCP/IP networking, C programming  embedded systems, we even did OO (using Ada + Modula 2) and I'm basically doing the same thing nearly 40 years later so my degree both got me a job and has kept me working all my life in what is supposed to be a fast changing environment. I don't do C these days but a derived language, although will be back on 'C' soon as I'm doing IOTs on the new project.

I'm hoping to make it to retirement without much change.

I'm doing Uni at the minute as I've said.The half of my course that's academic is really lightweight-to the point that there's a mulit chocie and I swear if a non clinician did the previous 6 years enough they'd pass.

The catch is that the the practical element needs a sign off from a qualified person and it really seems as if the rest is just a tick box excercise.

Worked lad the other week who had a degree in History of Art or something.He had three lectures a week in his final year.

The taxpayer has been properly rolled here.