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Is the University bubble about to burst?


BearyBear

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Dave Bloke
4 hours ago, The Idiocrat said:

Agreed. Half the reason to go to uni is to leave home, fend for yourself, party and build lifelong friendships sex

fixed it ferya.

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5 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

Thought I would have a quick look at the University web site to see what they were planning.

https://www.port.ac.uk

The thing that worries me is will my lad fit in. From the home page, they do seem to have some white females, but every single male is BAME.

Do they take white males? Their choice of pictures suggests not.

That's a valid question, I will ask them and let you know ;) 

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11 hours ago, eek said:

But that is the point - if you compare the prices in the way a university would - they see a justification for keeping the price the same. Now we all know that the idea it should cost the same is utterly mad but that's not how a university would see it.

The point is now the `tables are going to be turned the other way around`, as the traditional universities will be offering the same as the OU...the only difference is that the OU have perfected distance learning over 50 years, whereas the traditionals have been doing it for three months!

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12 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

The point of a gap year is to avoid 2020/21 for which Cambridge has announced, and it is presumably just the first to announce, that all lectures will be online.

That is a massively inferior offering for the same price as proper lectures so any 18 yo, or parent of same, with a bit of nous will look at the offer and say that they will wait one year for the course proper to be provided.

Even if all they are doing is chilling for a year that still beats sitting in your small student room by yourself watching three hours of online lectures every week day and calling it a university education.

I'm not simply being traditionalist here; as well as giving you a requirement to get up and shower lectures physically bring together the people doing the same course and options within that course so you form a peer group with whom you discuss your subject over coffee.

If you're spending your lecture time in your room you're not even going to meet the other people on your course as they don't arrange accommodation by subject.

I appreciate that your thrust was as to what they will do instead but doing literally nothing beats getting off to such a bad start for their first year of three.

The only `saving grace` here Frank is that if numbers are low unis will be lowering their acceptance grades. So as a student with lower than normally acceptable grades it may be worth putting up with a sub par first year experience to get into a better uni that you may normally not have a chance with.

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12 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

Thought I would have a quick look at the University web site to see what they were planning.

https://www.port.ac.uk

The thing that worries me is will my lad fit in. From the home page, they do seem to have some white females, but every single male is BAME.

Do they take white males? Their choice of pictures suggests not.

They will take whoever is prepared to pay £9250 for the next three years, especially this coming academic year..in fact I would go as far to say that if when doing the mirror test it fogs, you're in!

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12 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

Is this really how it happens?

My only experience so far is of the U.S. system where you are hauled in front of your tutor if you miss even one lesson, tutorial or (very frequent) test.

Frank is ` not far off the money` with his comment, especially in third and fourth tier `universities`

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Wight Flight
11 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

The only `saving grace` here Frank is that if numbers are low unis will be lowering their acceptance grades. So as a student with lower than normally acceptable grades it may be worth putting up with a sub par first year experience to get into a better uni that you may normally not have a chance with.

Raised this with the son. Apparently, UCAS have banned universities from lowering their offers or making new unconditional ones.

Looks like they are determined to make sure that the pain is evenly spread.

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10 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Raised this with the son. Apparently, UCAS have banned universities from lowering their offers or making new unconditional ones.

Looks like they are determined to make sure that the pain is evenly spread.

Maybe for initial offers but come `clearing` [when universities tot up all the firm acceptances and then know how many `spare` places they have] they can lower the conditional grades required. In addition, this year the government/OfS has just announced that unis will be able to increase their number of places by 5% above their previously agreed target...factor that in with the reduced numbers of overseas/UK students, and those part way through a course who will not be returning, and I think you have a nice recipe for a `bun fight`!

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Wight Flight
2 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

Maybe for initial offers but come `clearing` [when universities tot up all the firm acceptances and then know how many `spare` places they have] they can lower the conditional grades required. In addition, this year the government/OfS has just announced that unis will be able to increase their number of places by 5% above their previously agreed target...factor that in with the reduced numbers of overseas/UK students, and those part way through a course who will not be returning, and I think you have a nice recipe for a `bun fight`!

I claim no expertise in this area. But surely during clearing, most people are lowering their sights rather than raising them?

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23 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

I claim no expertise in this area. But surely during clearing, most people are lowering their sights rather than raising them?

Normally yes, but if you were a student going to uni B (your second choice as uni A has higher entrance requirements) with a conditional offer of three predicted A levels at AAB, and then in clearing uni A has lots of spare places so drops to AAB what are you going to do?....remember you don't have any financial commitment until when you have arrived.

In addition, A level grade are going to be predicted this year not sat, so as long as the teacher doesn't be silly I.e. give a student whose progress so far has been D/E an A at A level, the predicted grades will not be questioned, and you will not have the scenario where a student has to go through clearing due to not meeting their conditional offer requirements.

Finally, with dramatically lower student numbers this year (especially overseas who pay~X3 in fees per annum) many unis are going to be in a financial hole; remember its not just the fees but the student accommodation as well. With the government offering little financial help, do you think the uni VCs are going to play by the `letter`?...they will flex the rules and the government will `turn a blind eye`

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Wight Flight
19 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

Normally yes, but if you were a student going to uni B (your second choice as uni A has higher entrance requirements) with a conditional offer of three predicted A levels at AAB, and then in clearing uni A has lots of spare places so drops to AAB what are you going to do?....remember you don't have any financial commitment until when you have arrived.

In addition, A level grade are going to be predicted this year not sat, so as long as the teacher doesn't be silly I.e. give a student whose progress so far has been D/E an A at A level, the predicted grades will not be questioned, and you will not have the scenario where a student has to go through clearing due to not meeting their conditional offer requirements.

Finally, with dramatically lower student numbers this year (especially overseas who pay~X3 in fees per annum) many unis are going to be in a financial hole; remember its not just the fees but the student accommodation as well. With the government offering little financial help, do you think the uni VCs are going to play by the `letter`?...they will flex the rules and the government will `turn a blind eye`

As I say, I have zero knowledge of UK universities. All I know is my son is crapping himself as his mocks weren't as good as his more recent results. It is all pretty shit really.

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41 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

As I say, I have zero knowledge of UK universities. All I know is my son is crapping himself as his mocks weren't as good as his more recent results. It is all pretty shit really.

But nothing says that he has to go to university full-time, has he investigated Modern Apprenticeships...some of these fund block release undergraduate degrees, and the advantage is that a) he will be getting valuable work experience, b) making contacts/a reputation in the field, and c) getting paid and not saddling himself with a £50k debt for his working life.

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Wight Flight
4 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

But nothing says that he has to go to university full-time, has he investigated Modern Apprenticeships...some of these fund block release undergraduate degrees, and the advantage is that a) he will be getting valuable work experience, b) making contacts/a reputation in the field, and c) getting paid and not saddling himself with a £50k debt for his working life.

Sadly not. The Navy scheme he is on dictates that he has to go full time this year. Though that isn't necessarily a bad thing. And he doesn't get the debt.

 

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On 20/05/2020 at 09:38, Frank Hovis said:

With an online lecture as long as you have signed into it how would it be known that you have then muted it and wandered off?

On my last module, I was the only one attending most times. And I only did that because I felt bad for the tutor.

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On 19/05/2020 at 11:55, spygirl said:

I've family who are 27-22. All the kids bar one have avoided HE due to the horror series of the debt overhang.

The one who went is doing a job she could have got at 18, without the 10% grad tax on her earnings.

This is me. I wasn't clever enough for Uni but I did get onto a Business Studies course at college. I started a couple of years before the student grants system was replaced by loans. The job I'm doing now could be done by an 18 year old with common sense.

Once I left education and went into full time work, house prices soared. Bah! I should have got a job at 18, saved as much as I could for a deposit on a modest house. Would have been mortgage free by now!

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sancho panza

I spent a shift a while back with someone who'd paid £50k for a History of Art degree.It was sad and amusing in equla measure.Said workmate told me he agreed with fees for students as he didn't see why his friends who chose not to go to Uni should subsisdise those who did.

He then spent 15 mins telling me how he'd never pay his debt off.I then pointed out that his friend would therefore end up subsidising his debts after all.

Sums it up really.

Word is that the NHS is looking at going back to the old ways of taking lower grade jobs eg HCA and then encouraging them to study Nursing via the NHS/Trust on a day release scheme.Apparently the lack of candidates coming from ethnic minority backgrounds is the jsutification but reading between the lines it was the lack of candidates full stop.

Worth ntoing he only had about 4 horus lecrtures a week ......................................:ph34r:

3 hours ago, Craig said:

Doesn't look like Edinburgh's struggling that much. Guess it's all relative...

https://www.building.co.uk/news/kier-picked-to-build-edinburgh-university-engineering-building/5106105.article

 

That building will likely pay for itself in no time.

I suspect the real problems unis are having, relate to finding suckers students to study the lighter degrees that can be taught by Phd studetns 5-8 horus a week but still pay the full £9000

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sancho panza

On another matter,I'm currently studying a one year non honours BSc,cost is circa £2800 for one year for four mdodules each 20 credits.

That's a long way from £9000.

I've heard of MSc's being sold at £5k-Critical Care Paramedic.Just sayin.........

 

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I know a bloke who is unemployable at 31 as he has a philosphy degree and has never had a proper job, just sporadic minimum wage work.

His Dad services boilers for a living. If his Dad can spend a couple hours a day working, say one boiler in the morning and one in the afternoon, cash in hand, he earns a decent amount in a low stress job.

But his son considers himself 'too good' for such work. I reckon his Dad has a better working life (i.e. less stress) and work/reward ratio than most office 'careers' do.

There should be more apprentiships to do useful work like this bloke's Dad does. Most of us are not academics. Most of us just need some useful real world skills.

3 hours ago, Craig said:

Doesn't look like Edinburgh's struggling that much. Guess it's all relative...

https://www.building.co.uk/news/kier-picked-to-build-edinburgh-university-engineering-building/5106105.article

Edinburgh will be fine; it was always full of trustafarian types.

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DownwardSpiral

I caught things just in time picking up a Masters in a core science subject before the fees went ballistic. The science itself isn’t useful to me now but there are genuine “transferable skills” from a scientific/mathematical discipline. Transferable skills is just waffle for “can be used for business” and thus shouldn’t be applied to a swathe of the degrees out there now. Enjoyed that comedian ripping in to Gender Studies 😂😂.

I have about £6k left to pay off but hardly think about it tbh. It sees to itself. Would I go to uni now? Fuck no.

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17 hours ago, sancho panza said:

I spent a shift a while back with someone who'd paid £50k for a History of Art degree.It was sad and amusing in equla measure.Said workmate told me he agreed with fees for students as he didn't see why his friends who chose not to go to Uni should subsisdise those who did.

He then spent 15 mins telling me how he'd never pay his debt off.I then pointed out that his friend would therefore end up subsidising his debts after all.

Sums it up really.

Word is that the NHS is looking at going back to the old ways of taking lower grade jobs eg HCA and then encouraging them to study Nursing via the NHS/Trust on a day release scheme.Apparently the lack of candidates coming from ethnic minority backgrounds is the jsutification but reading between the lines it was the lack of candidates full stop.

Worth ntoing he only had about 4 horus lecrtures a week ......................................:ph34r:

That building will likely pay for itself in no time.

I suspect the real problems unis are having, relate to finding suckers students to study the lighter degrees that can be taught by Phd studetns 5-8 horus a week but still pay the full £9000

No doubt. They do own half of Edinburgh's Old Town, so they could always flog that if need be...

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Frank Hovis
17 hours ago, sancho panza said:

On another matter,I'm currently studying a one year non honours BSc,cost is circa £2800 for one year for four mdodules each 20 credits.

That's a long way from £9000.

I've heard of MSc's being sold at £5k-Critical Care Paramedic.Just sayin.........

 

You're doing a degree in one year?

Well fair play there; that's a superhuman effort.

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18 hours ago, sancho panza said:

I then pointed out that his friend would therefore end up subsidising his debts after all.

A scam between the then (and all since) government and the HE sector.  Bottom line is the taxpayer pays the loan write-offs while the sector trousers the massive increase in revenue, profitability, and earnings.  The old system would have been cheaper.  But then that wizard of finance (take your pick) wanted temporarily lower unemployment and the taxpayers could eff themselves.

18 hours ago, sancho panza said:

...non honours BSc

Nah problem.  You can collect your honours on the other thread!

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sancho panza
13 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

You're doing a degree in one year?

Well fair play there; that's a superhuman effort.

It's not a hard degree.I'm gutted how little I've learned.

To get an honorus you need 120 credits.Non honours is 80 credits.

Put this in perpsective.40 credits academic,40 credits in hospital doing some practical expereicne you need signing off for.

Reality is that the academic side is very light imho.The coruse is full of people currently working in the NHS,hence the fees are low or noone would do it.

I've jsut handed in the two essays but they weren't that tesitng 2000 words each.Then a couple of short answer exams and your academic side is done.

I'm shocked tbh.

 

In general the post grad stuff in paramedics is a lot of essays-cheap to mark and student does all the work.what's not to love ref the bottom line.

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