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Why do we need to pay tax if the Government can just print money?


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1 minute ago, Loki said:

TO PAY FOR ARE SACRED NHS

 

We could have a dual currency system.

Private sector can be paid in Swiss Francs.

Public sector n bennies be paid in sterling, which can be exchanged at an official exchange rate, set by Pols.

Printed money is a claim.

UK cant go bust as it can print its currency.

However ..... it can totally debase its currency, making it valueless and destroying the economy.

 

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4 minutes ago, snaga said:

because until recently private banks were in control of money supply, they will want that control back. Will our politicians have the balls to keep control? will they fuck.

positivemoney.org have some good ideas.

No. Banks have never be in control of UK money.

The closest UK came to that was the cretin Brown light touch speech in 2005.

3 years later 80% of UK banks blew up.

Money creation for mortgages  now has very strict risk weighting, about 10x more caputsl and hard earning limits.

 

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1 minute ago, spygirl said:

No. Banks have never be in control of UK money.

The closest UK came to that was the cretin Brown light touch speech in 2005.

3 years later 80% of UK banks blew up.

Money creation for mortgages  now has very strict risk weighting, about 10x more caputsl and hard earning limits.

 

I should of defined "recently" as since QE became a thing.

 

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Royston said:

The last decade has proven that income tax in particular is just a tool of manipulation and control rather than an essential method of raising revenue.

No.

Payroll taxes are still the major revenue source.

bn198_fig2.jpg

Deep dhit, with all the doley n OAPs n public sector and mass unemployment.

Edited by spygirl
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4 minutes ago, Royston said:

At 25% that's actually lower than I expected it to be... I still say the goverbankment could just as easily print off the £££ figure of whatever that 25% represents if they so desired.

Wooh!

NICs?

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3 hours ago, HolyCow said:

This is probably a stupid question but I don't quite understand why tax is needed if Governments can just print money ad infinitum and a lot of the tax paid will be from money that has been magic-ed into existence. The whole system seems very opaque unless you understand how the financial system works. 

They don't need your money, they just need for you not to have it.

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10 minutes ago, steppensheep said:

It could, but, if it could be finely controlled to reach steady state, inflation would be (in round numbers) 100% and you would lose 50% of your income every year, just like it was being taxed 

Wage inflation would have to be in lockstep 

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5 hours ago, HolyCow said:

This is probably a stupid question but I don't quite understand why tax is needed if Governments can just print money ad infinitum and a lot of the tax paid will be from money that has been magic-ed into existence. The whole system seems very opaque unless you understand how the financial system works. 

There has to be a perception* that future UK interest payments and debt repayments will be made in something that represents actual wealth, which in our system means taxes not printed paper. Otherwise who will take our debt/currency in exchange for the essential imports we need, given that we cannot pay in actual wealth at the time?

* Note that I didn't say the perception has to be accurate :ph34r:

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4 hours ago, Royston said:

The last decade has proven that income tax in particular is just a tool of manipulation and control rather than an essential method of raising revenue.

Yes.

If you read the excellent book 'Money', there is a lot in there about how taxation creates control for government that nothing else does.  You conquer a country.  You then demand 5 peanut shells a year from each person, or they go to jail.  Now they have to work to get 5 peanut shells, even if they were existing without any need for them before.  They might sell assets, they might produce new stuff, but they all start working for the state, and then also get to interact with the state and become 'known'.  As the government, you don't really need the shells, but you can use them and also get access to assets that otherwise you'd have to use force to get.

 

That's why pikeys are so successful financially.  they avoid taxation, and so avoid any encounter with the state they don't want, for the most part.

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6 hours ago, HolyCow said:

This is probably a stupid question but I don't quite understand why tax is needed if Governments can just print money ad infinitum and a lot of the tax paid will be from money that has been magic-ed into existence. The whole system seems very opaque unless you understand how the financial system works. 

but if you can do both - tax people and devalue everything they have saved to shit so they have to keep working, then why not spoil yourself?

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5 hours ago, Dave Bloke said:

but if you can do both - tax people and devalue everything they have saved to shit so they have to keep working, then why not spoil yourself?

Exactly.

Yet again I'll use my favourite phrase... the governbankment's over riding aim is create a populace of disenfranchised, obedient, compliant, debt slave, lifelong worker drones.

(In fact it's hardly an aim anymore, I reckon they've more or less achieved it)

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7 hours ago, Dave Bloke said:

but if you can do both - tax people and devalue everything they have saved to shit so they have to keep working, then why not spoil yourself?

They can only devalue what they can control: cash deposits and sterling denominated bonds.

People really need to grow up and change their mindset when it comes to savings.  When I was fourteen all of my savings were cash deposited in a building society account.  I am no longer fourteen.

The government, and most governments, will now have extra incentive to print and devalue cash savings in order to devalue the vast amount of debt that they have run up.

Why put or leave yourself in the position where you personally are paying for this as what your savings will buy gets steadily less with each passing year?

Get into something real and non-devaluing: equities, PMs, maybe property or land if you're at that scale, or that major material purchase you have been putting off be it a new kitchen or a campervan even though it will depreciate it will improve your quality of life and probably devalue slower than holding it as cash.

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Posted (edited)

It's not that simple. This pandemic puts us one step closer for people figuring out how fiat money works. 

We have to pay the cost of money printing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52772950

Countries are being forced to use extreme measures to keep the economy afloat amid the coronavirus crisis.

Now, the Bank of England has signalled that it may take the cost of borrowing below zero.

 

Edited by 201p
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