Jump to content
DOSBODS
  • Welcome to DOSBODS

     

    DOSBODS is free of any advertising.

    Ads are annoying, and - increasingly - advertising companies limit free speech online. DOSBODS Forums are completely free to use. Please create a free account to be able to access all the features of the DOSBODS community. It only takes 20 seconds!

     

Furlough cost,,,,,,,,same as welfare.


DurhamBorn
 Share

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, SillyBilly said:

Print a few million copies of this and send it to every socialist in the country, they'll wipe their arse with it of course but it is the entire reason the system doesn't work. There is no incentive to better yourself when the "advantages" are stripped further and further back each year. We've been banging on about this for years but the talk I am hearing with regards to COVID-19 is scaring the s**t out of me now. I can't afford to bow out for a decade or two yet (the welfare state would treat me less favourably than the islamist scum washed up in a dingy in Dover yesterday) and if a load of other contributors decide they ain't been squeezed further it looks like further pressure on those of us left at the coalface. And the "obscene" money we earn (often pegged at a number like £50k in a QT audience). 

Yep 100%.

I've had two ex-collegues try and lure me away from where I'm working at the moment for what I'd guess is going to be an extra £5K a year after tax (if that), to work about 3 times as hard and have far less free time than I have already.

Now there's actually some mugs out there that would do that, because their ego is tied into "I can say I have this job title or earn this much" without actually considering what they're sacrificing for that.

Don't be that mug.

Edited by JoeDavola
  • Agree 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Democorruptcy
On 29/05/2020 at 22:17, Sideysid said:

This is why I’ve been preparing for this forthcoming global recession for the last 5 years (as has many of us on here). 

With constant analysis, research and realignment with ISAs, pensions, and being frugal to budget any extra into further investing, this was always going to be the pivotal point into which our resilience will pay off.

If the over leveraged and feckless are bailed out putting the burden on the last of the very few tax payers left, then it’s time to throw in the towel. 

No mortgage for me. We will do whatever we can to not subside the system by putting our household income below the £12k tax threshold. My partner will give up work and she will rent out our property (no mortgage - in her name) and the rent will be her income. I’ll put everything I earn surplus up to my £40k allowance in my private pension, I may have to semi-retire by working a 3 day week so we remain below the tax threshold. Keep all savings below £6k. We can then claim universal credit and housing benefit and pick a long term rental at the LHA rate. We may have to have one more child to make sure we’re seen through all the way through the next 15 years on benefits.

I then have pension access and retire fully at 55 with £40k having been payed in every year on top what I already have there. 

Have I got this right? You have a mortgage house but are going to let it out for up to £12k tax free income, while you then rent at LHA rate? Do you have a lot of children so the LHA is a lot more than you will receive in rent for your house, so you are getting "value"? You could just stay in your own house, the wife gets a job below the tax threshold and you are not at the mercy of a landlord?

If the one more child you are having for benefits is a boy, you could call him "Cash".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lightscribe
17 minutes ago, Democorruptcy said:

Have I got this right? You have a mortgage house but are going to let it out for up to £12k tax free income, while you then rent at LHA rate? Do you have a lot of children so the LHA is a lot more than you will receive in rent for your house, so you are getting "value"? You could just stay in your own house, the wife gets a job below the tax threshold and you are not at the mercy of a landlord?

If the one more child you are having for benefits is a boy, you could call him "Cash".

No, my mortgage is paid off and is in my partners name. She can then rent it for £12k (It’s a flat) a year (our income below the tax bracket.) We choose a place we want to rent say 2/3 bed house as decent as possible area under the LHA cap. I put all my salary into my pension and work less days to take me down to £40k pension cap (essentially zero take home)
Because we then have a household of income of less  than £12k (savings would have to be kept below £6k) and one child (could max it out with 2 - we’ve held off having another child because of living in a 2 bed flat) the universal tax credits would cover whatever the rent would be (round my way it would be up to £1300 p/m) plus the tax credits on top.

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Democorruptcy
6 minutes ago, Sideysid said:

No, my mortgage is paid off and is in my partners name. She can then rent it for £12k (It’s a flat) a year (our income below the tax bracket.) We choose a place we want to rent say 2/3 bed house as decent as possible area under the LHA cap. I put all my salary into my pension and work less days to take me down to £40k pension cap (essentially zero take home)
Because we then have a household of income of less  than £12k (savings would have to be kept below £6k) and one child (could max it out with 2 - we’ve held off having another child because of living in a 2 bed flat) the universal tax credits would cover whatever the rent would be (round my way it would be up to £1300 p/m) plus the tax credits on top.

OK, it makes a little bit more sense now if you are moving from a flat for more space in a less desirable area. I still don't quite see the morals or inconvenience being it though. You don't like people getting bennies but are going to become one, putting yourself at the mercy of a landlord. Do you gain anything from not selling the flat to buy the house for security of tenure?

I'd like to be able to play the system but cannot see how I can. No taxable income means I can only put £2,880 into a pension, topped up to £3,600. Don't qualify for any bennies with no recent contributions and having some savings.

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lightscribe

Morals doesn't come into it. The government protecting the 1%ers is immoral by implementing policies (HTB etc) that have always benefitted their mates and themselves, while letting Joe Average take the hit.

The narrative of this thread was highlighting how the majority of the country is receiving benefits anyway (A good proportion more will be after furlough). Hopefully all those newcomers to the benefit system will see how generous it is in comparison to actually working and the constant MSM news articles of universal credit sob stories of food bank usage will start to fall on deaf ears.

I was pointing out at that after 25 years of seeing how my PAYE taxes are spent I've had enough. If they decide to lump on extra taxes (NHS/COVID taxes) on the few tax payers there are left after all this then I'm out.

The traditional approach of a 2.4 family unit, x4 mortgage of household income, working 30-40 years paying your taxes and retire at 50-60 with paid off mortgage with a pension has been decimated.

I would actively choose to do the above (despite tenancy insecurity) as a protest against the system, and would advertise it far and wide to encourage more to to the same. The system needs to change, the quicker it can tip over the better.

The younger generation are being fooled into thinking 35-40 year mortgages are the norm (if indeed they can ever get a mortgage and not forever be a host for BTL landlords to leech off), with shit pensions linked to state age most likely rising to 70+. They will forever be slaves in a system that was built against them to pay for the massive shortfall to fund the lifestyle of the previous generations.

But first we have a global recession ahead. That could force a system reset by itself.

Edited by Sideysid
  • Agree 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 29/05/2020 at 21:53, Chewing Grass said:

I'm thoroughly convinced the workhouses should be brought back for those of working age that can't be arsed and don't have someone else to sub their existence.

Bung them in the workhouse, supervise and regulate their existence and get them making some of the shit we rely on China for because it is cheap.

Indeed. Or perhaps an easier sell would be 40 hours a week picking litter. I don't see why it cannot be done, it's low skilled, requires no training besides some elf n safety brief, and has multiple benefits.

  • Agree 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sideysid said:

 after 25 years of seeing how my PAYE taxes are spent I've had enough. If they decide to lump on extra taxes (NHS/COVID taxes) on the few tax payers there are left after all this then I'm out.

Yep taxes are gonna go up anyway as the state continues to get into more and more debt and the cohort being expected to pay will shrink more and more.

I'm hoping for a dip in house prices over the next couple years; once I buy a gaff outright I can then live mortgage free and put everything over basic rate tax into my pension. Should bring my retirement age forward a good bit.

Edited by JoeDavola
  • Agree 1
  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

stokiescum
2 hours ago, spunko said:

Indeed. Or perhaps an easier sell would be 40 hours a week picking litter. I don't see why it cannot be done, it's low skilled, requires no training besides some elf n safety brief, and has multiple benefits.

Fuck off it’s my ambition to go on some form of social but work keeps geting in the way

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don Coglione
2 hours ago, spunko said:

Indeed. Or perhaps an easier sell would be 40 hours a week picking litter. I don't see why it cannot be done, it's low skilled, requires no training besides some elf n safety brief, and has multiple benefits.

Saul of Better Call Saul had to do it as part of his community service order; the least the feckless fatty benefit junkies could do to contribute to the society, from which they take so much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don Coglione
6 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

Fuck me....look how much tax credits and housing benefit take up together.

Housing benefit shouldn't even be a thing. The government should own 'halls of residence' type setups and if you are destitute you get to stay in that. You shouldn't get tax payers money that goes into a private landlord's pocket.

However is the essential problem here that there isn't enough jobs for everyone in the UK of working age to be working 40 hours a week?

Which is fair enough - if there's only enough work for us to work an average of 3 days a week doing productive things then fine - let's build a society where we can all opt to do that.

But that's not what we have, is it? We have a society where a smaller and smaller percentage are expected to slog it out in full time work while a larger and larger percentage are told "nah you stay at home" or "you work 16 hours a week and we'll top up the rest from these chumps wages".

If you're a single and childless person (man or woman) who works full time then is it not natural at some point to get somewhat resentful and think "what the fuck is in this for me" as you see Sharon from the estate lounging in the park with her 3 kids without a care in the world as you quickly stroll past on your lunch break.

It's one of the major reasons why I'm not chasing promotions and pay raises. Coupled with the fact that the amount I'm likely to earn extra after tax won't affect my quality of life all that much (if at all) while that the same time I'll be taking on 3 or 4 times as much stress. So that Sharon can get more of my money.

Fuck that. Not happening.

A lot of these places are about to become available in university towns.

Soon to be re-purposed as fat slag sleeper units; their fucking hideous half-breed children can sleep on the bog.

6 hours ago, SillyBilly said:

Is that inflation adjusted as according to BoE website £30bn in 1978 is worth £173.41bn in 2019.

Population of UK in 1978 = 56M

Population of UK today = 67M So 3.09bn cost of welfare per million in 1978 vs. 1.5bn cost of welfare per million today (ish)?

And the fucking rest!

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Knickerless Turgid said:

A lot of these places are about to become available in university towns.

Soon to be re-purposed as fat slag sleeper units; their fucking hideous half-breed children can sleep on the bog.

That would be a drop in quality of life for them, therefore it will not happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don Coglione
Just now, JoeDavola said:

That would be a drop in quality of life for them, therefore it will not happen.

Remove the right to vote for any non-contributor and it bloody soon would.

No taxation without representation!

No representation without taxation.

It's only fair...

Fuck me, I have just invented my platform for election.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Sideysid said:

No, my mortgage is paid off and is in my partners name. She can then rent it for £12k (It’s a flat) a year (our income below the tax bracket.) We choose a place we want to rent say 2/3 bed house as decent as possible area under the LHA cap. I put all my salary into my pension and work less days to take me down to £40k pension cap (essentially zero take home)
Because we then have a household of income of less  than £12k (savings would have to be kept below £6k) and one child (could max it out with 2 - we’ve held off having another child because of living in a 2 bed flat) the universal tax credits would cover whatever the rent would be (round my way it would be up to £1300 p/m) plus the tax credits on top.

Wont work.

They wont give you HB whilst you have a flat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lightscribe
Just now, spygirl said:

Wont work.

They wont give you HB whilst you have a flat.

The flat isn't in my name. So theoretically If I rented a house, the missus moves in with my daughter a month later, and is an 'accidental' landlord once tenants are in the flat and that was her income. I thought by then putting in a universal credit claim from that point on, that would cover it, no?

I've seen shitloads of mumsnets posts in the past claiming tax credits while as an 'accidental' landlord. Has that changed now from the transition of the tax credit to universal credit?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Sideysid said:

The flat isn't in my name. So theoretically If I rented a house, the missus moves in with my daughter a month later, and is an 'accidental' landlord once tenants are in the flat and that was her income. I thought by then putting in a universal credit claim from that point on, that would cover it, no?

I've seen shitloads of mumsnets posts in the past claiming tax credits while as an 'accidental' landlord. Has that changed now from the transition of the tax credit to universal credit?

If you are married or living together then it has to be declared.

LL income kills TC UC claims.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lightscribe
2 hours ago, spygirl said:

If you are married or living together then it has to be declared.

LL income kills TC UC claims.

I’ll have to sell up in that case then and either buy gold bullion that ends up in a boating accident, gamble it all on a leveraged crypto trading or just spend it Brewsters millions style. :)

Edited by Sideysid
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Democorruptcy
7 hours ago, Sideysid said:

Morals doesn't come into it. The government protecting the 1%ers is immoral by implementing policies (HTB etc) that have always benefitted their mates and themselves, while letting Joe Average take the hit.

The narrative of this thread was highlighting how the majority of the country is receiving benefits anyway (A good proportion more will be after furlough). Hopefully all those newcomers to the benefit system will see how generous it is in comparison to actually working and the constant MSM news articles of universal credit sob stories of food bank usage will start to fall on deaf ears.

I was pointing out at that after 25 years of seeing how my PAYE taxes are spent I've had enough. If they decide to lump on extra taxes (NHS/COVID taxes) on the few tax payers there are left after all this then I'm out.

The traditional approach of a 2.4 family unit, x4 mortgage of household income, working 30-40 years paying your taxes and retire at 50-60 with paid off mortgage with a pension has been decimated.

I would actively choose to do the above (despite tenancy insecurity) as a protest against the system, and would advertise it far and wide to encourage more to to the same. The system needs to change, the quicker it can tip over the better.

The younger generation are being fooled into thinking 35-40 year mortgages are the norm (if indeed they can ever get a mortgage and not forever be a host for BTL landlords to leech off), with shit pensions linked to state age most likely rising to 70+. They will forever be slaves in a system that was built against them to pay for the massive shortfall to fund the lifestyle of the previous generations.

But first we have a global recession ahead. That could force a system reset by itself.

I agree the traditional approach has been decimated and they will definitely lump more taxes on people to pay for Covid etc. Though I'm not convinced your approach is anti-system enough. You are using BTL for an income and presumably funding another landlord who has removed another house from the for sale supply. Rentiers seem to be winning 2-0 against people living in houses they own. 

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wight Flight
8 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

Yep taxes are gonna go up anyway as the state continues to get into more and more debt and the cohort being expected to pay will shrink more and more.

I'm hoping for a dip in house prices over the next couple years; once I buy a gaff outright I can then live mortgage free and put everything over basic rate tax into my pension. Should bring my retirement age forward a good bit.

Excellent plan.

But what the hell would you do if you retired?

FFS spend some now on enjoying yourself.

If you don't know how, drop @ccc a line.

  • Agree 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wight Flight
12 hours ago, JoeDavola said:

Which is fair enough - if there's only enough work for us to work an average of 3 days a week doing productive things then fine - let's build a society where we can all opt to do that.

There is enough work for one member of the household to work full time whilst the other brings up the kids.

We need to take a few steps backwards.

  • Agree 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

DurhamBorn
8 hours ago, spunko said:

Indeed. Or perhaps an easier sell would be 40 hours a week picking litter. I don't see why it cannot be done, it's low skilled, requires no training besides some elf n safety brief, and has multiple benefits.

over 50% of my home town of 11k people get benefits.They cant put 6000 people litter picking in a small town.The amounts are staggering.Something will give.The government as said above have got a situation where due to modern production etc there isnt 40 hours work for everyone.Instead of then getting most people onto 25 to 30 hours they have put half the population onto nothing or 16 hours and the rest working the same or more than 50 years ago.The new HTB estate i was on last week had a family on Universal Credit,couple of kids,one on ADHD so about £350 a week cash+rent and council tax paid,sat in garden in hot tub.One of the 20%+ of the houses allocated for "social housing".The couple next door paid £145k for a tiny 3 bed and were both working full time.They had no idea when they bought the house that next door had been allocated to a housing association.Imagine every day coming home to the neighbours in their hot tub.

The worry is rather than ever get to grips they will simply tax pensions more,move pension age back,increase council tax etc etc.

  • Agree 4
  • Informative 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, spunko said:

Indeed. Or perhaps an easier sell would be 40 hours a week picking litter. I don't see why it cannot be done, it's low skilled, requires no training besides some elf n safety brief, and has multiple benefits.

You just pick it up as you go along

  • Agree 1
  • Lol 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Castlevania
9 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

There is enough work for one member of the household to work full time whilst the other brings up the kids.

We need to take a few steps backwards.

Ah but that’s against women’s equality. You disgusting vile sexist pig ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agent ZigZag

The worry is rather than ever get to grips they will simply tax pensions more,move pension age back,increase council tax etc

 

This is exactly how they will do it until the pips squeak. Now that I have retired I have been torn between just spending what I have got and enjoy life and leave my house to my children or create a wealth fund to pass on a lot more in order than they do not have to become a Hamster on a wheel. The cycle of work drudgery must be broken and if I have the means to do it all the better. This thought is actually giving me a degree of stress that is one of the things retirement hoped to banish. 
 

Council tax rises is a given until protests start from the working population. Therefore I made provisions in my outgoings to accommodate  this that in turn will reduce my consumer free spending allocation 

SIPP access likely to rise to rise to 57. This will affect my plans but Will just mean will have to fall back onto other assets held possibly reducing my own wealth accumulation.

 

I made provisions a long time ago to ensure that my family would be entitled to some form of benefits whenI retired. Not known to me at the time the misses had already done this. when I found out I was shocked at the amount she received. The benefits received whilst not needed is a huge cushion for now.

 

The bottom line is the UK is a one trick pony with poor elected leaders in office that lack vision and creativity that created such a mess of an economy that simply No longer know how to solve the mess we are in.

 

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...