Jump to content
DOSBODS
  • Welcome to DOSBODS

     

    DOSBODS is free of any advertising.

    Ads are annoying, and - increasingly - advertising companies limit free speech online. DOSBODS Forums are completely free to use. Please create a free account to be able to access all the features of the DOSBODS community. It only takes 20 seconds!

     

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

My mrs works at a huge retail chain. She was rambling away as usual then she mentioned something that caught my attention, she signs in and out at work using an app on her phone to "swipe in". Uses GPS. Interesting never heard of that before, tell me more. She then tells me if she swipes in 5 mins after 9am she'll only be paid from the moment that she actually starts rather than the shift start time, fair enough I thought, then she says whatever times she swipes out after her shift finishes, 5.30pm she's not paid extra. Thing is nobody on the shop floor ever gets out at 5.30pm, she hasn't in 6 years, be lucky if you're out by 6pm.  I'm sure if they tried they would be sacked.

I understand sometimes you put in extra unpaid hours, especially if you're salaried, but these workers are paid per hour they work yet at the same time any extra hours they are implicitly forced to do is conveniently ignored. Sounds to me a bit like what happened to aldi/lidl (forget which) where workers were forced to come in 15 mins before their shift and clean up, unpaid.

So is this illegal? Sounds it to me.

Edited by gibbon
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 52
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I always find it funny that companies like this would accuse staff trying to leave on time of being "clock watchers". Yet turn up 2 seconds late and never shall you hear such a phrase be uttered 

My Missus has worked in retail since she was 15 and where she worked it was always expected that you cashed up at the end of your shift in your own time. Myself coming from an industry with a str

She needs to finish her shift at 5.30. Thats it.

Posted Images

I always find it funny that companies like this would accuse staff trying to leave on time of being "clock watchers".

Yet turn up 2 seconds late and never shall you hear such a phrase be uttered :D

 

Regarding legality.   It is legal in so far as,   you are contractually required to work your agreed hours.   You are not required to work a second more,  and certainly not an extra hour.  It is effectively reducing the pay below minimum wage..  but you are doing it voluntarily (if you do it). 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Libspero said:

I always find it funny that companies like this would accuse staff trying to leave on time of being "clock watchers".

Yet turn up 2 seconds late and never shall you hear such a phrase be uttered :D

 

Regarding legality.   It is legal in so far as,   you are contractually required to work your agreed hours.   You are not required to work a second more,  and certainly not an extra hour.  It is effectively reducing the pay below minimum wage..  but you are doing it voluntarily (if you do it). 

Can it be voluntary if everyone is expected to stay behind and with the implicit understanding that if you walk out at 5.30pm you'll be sacked? Isn't this exactly the same thing that Lidl/Aldi got fucked in court for except in this case just taking unpaid hours onto the end of the shift rather than the start?

Edited by gibbon
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, gibbon said:

Can it be voluntary if everyone does it though and with the implicit understanding that if you walk out at 5.30pm you'll be sacked? Isn't this exactly the same thing that Lidl/Aldi got fucked in court for except in this case just taking unpaid hours onto the end of the shift rather than the start?

Its probably illegal in the strictest sense but very much par for the course in the modern employment landscape.

Could she learnt to code? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, gibbon said:

My mrs works at a huge retail chain. She was rambling away as usual then she mentioned something that caught my attention, she signs in and out at work using an app on her phone to "swipe in". Uses GPS. Interesting never heard of that before, tell me more. She then tells me if she swipes in 5 mins after 9am she'll only be paid from the moment that she actually starts rather than the shift start time, fair enough I thought, then she says whatever times she swipes out after her shift finishes, 5.30pm she's not paid extra. Thing is nobody on the shop floor ever gets out at 5.30pm, she hasn't in 6 years, be lucky if you're out by 6pm.  I'm sure if they tried they would be sacked.

I understand sometimes you put in extra unpaid hours, especially if you're salaried, but these workers are paid per hour they work yet at the same time any extra hours they are implicitly forced to do is conveniently ignored. Sounds to me a bit like what happened to aldi/lidl (forget which) where workers were forced to come in 15 mins before their shift and clean up, unpaid.

So is this illegal? Sounds it to me.

She needs to finish her shift at 5.30.

Thats it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, eight said:

Its probably illegal in the strictest sense but very much par for the course in the modern employment landscape.

Could she learnt to code? 

She doesn't like change, I did find a 3 year uni degree she could do related to what she's doing now anyway which would double her salary, but she's happy enough plodding along in retail bless her heart.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, gibbon said:

Can it be voluntary if everyone is expected to stay behind and with the implicit understanding that if you walk out at 5.30pm you'll be sacked? Isn't this exactly the same thing that Lidl/Aldi got fucked in court for except in this case just taking unpaid hours onto the end of the shift rather than the start?

The only way to do that would be to walk out at 5pm (or whenever she finishes) and make them sack her.

They would probably try to do it (although the grounds for sacking would be interesting),  but if they didn't everyone would copy her and they wouldn't want that to happen.

Once she is sacked,  she would need to go to an employment tribunal and claim unfair dismissal.   She would need to probably secretly record her manager questioning her leaving early and threatening to sack her etc..   even if only thinly veiled threats to make her case water tight.

At that point I would guess she would win and get some form of pay out.   The company would happily pay because it will be less than they are currently saving in staffing costs by having every employee working an extra hour for free.

If she wins,  they can't give her a bad reference..    but..   

Personally if I was in that position I would just look for another job and try to get something where the employer doesn't take the piss.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, spygirl said:

She needs to finish her shift at 5.30.

Thats it.

And the next week she wouldn't have a job.

She's not complaining about this by the way, and wouldn't rock the boat. I just couldn't believe a companies were still pulling this shit. Now if it was me I'd already be in touch with lawyers. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, gibbon said:

She doesn't like change, I did find a 3 year uni degree she could do related to what she's doing now anyway which would double her salary, but she's happy enough plodding along in retail bless her heart.

That sounds like a text-book example from the great Jordan Peterson about women being paid less because they are more agreeable.

Your wife doesn't want to rock the boat..  so her employer will happily take advantage of her kind nature and fear of change.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The company can do what it likes -- and labour is free to leave if they like.

The two legal blocks to this are minimum wage and working time directive. 

I'd suggest that someone (not wifey) writes to the company director noting how nice it is that they've got a permanent and legal record of hours worked and pay so that they've not got a leg to stand on if there's any breach of either of those two conditions.

But it won't make any difference.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Libspero said:

That sounds like a text-book example from the great Jordan Peterson about women being paid less because they are more agreeable.

Your wife doesn't want to rock the boat..  so her employer will happily take advantage of her kind nature and fear of change.

Not married her but call her the mrs anyway. Thing is they must have over 20k employees, most of them shot floor. They are all getting fucked over I reckon. A lot of these changes were put in by a newish cunt of a CEO, did things like disallowing the staff to use the free coffee machines.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Does she know they'd sack her - i.e. have they actually sacked anyone in the past for this?

Sometimes these places just rely on the threat and a kind of group peer pressure kinda thing.

They sack people willy nilly, they are pretty ruthless.

6 minutes ago, dgul said:

The company can do what it likes -- and labour is free to leave if they like.

The two legal blocks to this are minimum wage and working time directive. 

I'd suggest that someone (not wifey) writes to the company director noting how nice it is that they've got a permanent and legal record of hours worked and pay so that they've not got a leg to stand on if there's any breach of either of those two conditions.

But it won't make any difference.

I'm all on with the personal responsibility. If a company played the sort of games where I was only paid from the moment I started work yet wasn't paid after 5.30pm I wouldn't work a second more.

Just really wanted to know the legality of it for my own interest. She isn't going to rock the boat. Maybe when she finally quits I might force march her to a employment solicitors if there's a pay day in it for her.

Edited by gibbon
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, eight said:

Its probably illegal in the strictest sense but very much par for the course in the modern employment landscape.

Could she learnt to code? 

The problem you have is you have no employment rights until two years service.

If you work to your contract you will be 'let go' on the flimsiest of pretext.

To you its half an hour, to them its in the region of £60,000,000 a year*

 

*A rough guestimate.

Based on but not suggesting they do the OPs practice, ASDA employ 145,000 in the UK, not all will be in every day or work under this contract.

So if 40,000 of there employees are in work on any given day under these conditions the numbers soon add up.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, gibbon said:

My mrs works at a huge retail chain. She was rambling away as usual then she mentioned something that caught my attention, she signs in and out at work using an app on her phone to "swipe in". Uses GPS. Interesting never heard of that before, tell me more. She then tells me if she swipes in 5 mins after 9am she'll only be paid from the moment that she actually starts rather than the shift start time, fair enough I thought, then she says whatever times she swipes out after her shift finishes, 5.30pm she's not paid extra. Thing is nobody on the shop floor ever gets out at 5.30pm, she hasn't in 6 years, be lucky if you're out by 6pm.  I'm sure if they tried they would be sacked.

I understand sometimes you put in extra unpaid hours, especially if you're salaried, but these workers are paid per hour they work yet at the same time any extra hours they are implicitly forced to do is conveniently ignored. Sounds to me a bit like what happened to aldi/lidl (forget which) where workers were forced to come in 15 mins before their shift and clean up, unpaid.

So is this illegal? Sounds it to me.

I would do a subject access request of all the time data they hold and then take it to a union. If they're not in a union they should be.

Or they should all leave on time. Every night.

 

Job is a job though at the moment. So some people might not want to rock the boat, but that's how working conditions deteriate.

 

Edited by sarahbell
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, dgul said:

The two legal blocks to this are minimum wage and working time directive.

Perhaps this is more an area of contract law and how the employment contract is worded..   but I'm surprised that firing someone for refusing to work more than their contracted hours wouldn't be in some way deemed unfair dismissal.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, eight said:

Unless you have cause to, Joe. In which case you absolutely should. Don't just think, there but for the grace of god, etc. We ALL need to stand up for ourselves more.

Agreed but stories like this really bring into focus how crap working conditions can be for minimum wage workers.

You're correct that if ALL the shop floor staff stood their ground, they'd have to treat them fairly.

@gibbon is there a union she could join and if so is it actually any good?

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, gibbon said:

Not married her but call her the mrs anyway. Thing is they must have over 20k employees, most of them shot floor. They are all getting fucked over I reckon. A lot of these changes were put in by a newish cunt of a CEO, did things like disallowing the staff to use the free coffee machines.

Welcome to the NWO, corporates fucking the plebs everywhere.......keep an eye on the CEOs 'package' this year, probably be in the order of decent 6 figures :o

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, gibbon said:

Not married her but call her the mrs anyway. Thing is they must have over 20k employees, most of them shot floor. They are all getting fucked over I reckon. A lot of these changes were put in by a newish cunt of a CEO, did things like disallowing the staff to use the free coffee machines.

She needs to join the union. And the union needs to do anything.

Talking to a checkout girl, I dont think this sort of fuckwittery happens at tescos.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, gibbon said:

They sack people willy nilly, they are pretty ruthless.

I'm all on with the personal responsibility. If a company played the sort of games where I was only paid from the moment I started work yet wasn't paid after 5.30pm I wouldn't work a second more.

Just really wanted to know the legality of it for my own interest. She isn't going to rock the boat. Maybe when she finally quits I might force march her to a employment solicitors if there's a pay day in it for her.

Is the GPS tracker on her phone or the compnaies?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, spygirl said:

She needs to join the union. And the union needs to do anything.

Talking to a checkout girl, I dont think this sort of fuckwittery happens at tescos.

It doesn't - my mate is almost 20 years with tesco and former union rep.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Libspero said:

Perhaps this is more an area of contract law and how the employment contract is worded..   but I'm surprised that firing someone for refusing to work more than their contracted hours wouldn't be in some way deemed unfair dismissal.

Think it's more a case of proving it isn't it? They won't ever say the reason for your sacking is your contracted hours. A local aldi/lidl fired someone because he refused to put thawed meat out. Obviously they came up with some other excuse. Lucky for him he had some photographic evidence he took on the sly as obviously knew they were going to fuck him over. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...