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Dave Bloke

The handmaiden's tale

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I've not watched it. However their is a huge amount of coverage in the left wing press such as the Guardian and WAPO. I almost get the feeling that it is a bit of a SJW fantasy to be subjugated by men and be forced to have sex.

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Some reviews paint it as another 50 Shades Of Grey, a slight allegorical  Grimms feminist fairy tale, its much more interesting, as is the author.

" So the book is not “antireligion.” It is against the use of religion as a front for tyranny; which is a different thing altogether. "

Margaret Atwood - New York Times

 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/books/review/margaret-atwood-handmaids-tale-age-of-trump.html?mcubz=0

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Not seen the film but I have read the book. For me it painted a dystopian nightmare that was in a way similar to 1984.  Not so much in a surveillance way but how there were groups in society that had more power than other groups.  It harked back to the times of 'upstairs downstairs' as well for me.  

 

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I posted before over on TOS how a friend of mine, a BBC newsreader, is convinced that THT is going to come true.

If you ask me then, well, I think THT appeals to SJW's, feminists, etc, as it allows them to vilify men as oppressors whilst, as mentioned above, allowing them to fulfil their 50 Shades... fantasies. The whole concept of being kidnapped, taken prisoner against their will, held hostage, raped and ultimately forced to carry the rapist's baby are powerful themes of Domination & submission that you find elements of in most female erotic fiction from Mills & Bloom through to the more overt Fifty Shades to some far darker BDSM erotical that you can find online.

The fascinating part of THT for me are the parts where the heroine is taken by her owner to basically a swinger's club for the elite - here, supposedly, the women are forced to dress provocatively in lingerie and be the playthings of rich & powerful men - i.e. fulfilling yet again another common female fantasy of deniable sexual pleasure. I was forced to dress like this, to act like this, made , forced to do these things.

The more feminist the woman outwardly, IMPO, the more submissive and darker her submissive fantasies are in reality. Hence why I think that THT appeals to so many Guardian and BBC types.

I think that the same themes apply with regard to islam and whilst so many of the same Guardian and BBC types are not willing to see anything wrong with islam - deep down there is  some deep-rooted concept of virtually the same things happening to them - just substitute a harem for a swinger's club.

As Human Beings we, both men adn women, are very much in denial about the roles that Mother Nature / Evolution has had in shaping us over millions of years as dominant and submissive, as hunter and prey. I strongly feel that if more people were able to be open to their real, dark desires in this regard that more of us would be happy in our relationships.

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1 hour ago, One percent said:

Not seen the film but I have read the book. For me it painted a dystopian nightmare that was in a way similar to 1984.  Not so much in a surveillance way but how there were groups in society that had more power than other groups.  It harked back to the times of 'upstairs downstairs' as well for me.  

 

Oryx and Crake is a superb dystopia.

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1 hour ago, One percent said:

Not seen the film but I have read the book. For me it painted a dystopian nightmare that was in a way similar to 1984.  Not so much in a surveillance way but how there were groups in society that had more power than other groups.  It harked back to the times of 'upstairs downstairs' as well for me. 

Interesting that you compare it to 1984. I read The Handmaid's Tale recently. I too thought of 1984, but they are IMO very different - 1984 describes in detail the entire society e.g. Winston Smith gets a book explaining how the entire EngSoc system works. Whereas The Handmaid's Tale is told from the viewpoint of one person - who can hardly leave her own home - describing what she sees/experiences day to day. She knows very little about what's happening beyond her own neighbourhood.

I also found the conclusions very different - 1984 is terrifying as the system is self-perpetuating. The Handmaid's Tale is "only" a brutal dictatorship, full of contradictions and corruption at the top level - e.g. the swinger party mentioned by TMT - that we can easily imagine collapsing in less than a century.

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In all the forests of print I have read on THT in the press, all saying how terrifying it is, I have not seen one line pointing out that Islamic societies are the closest thing we have to THT in real life and that as Islamic population grows in the west, more and more women are being subjugated. I have seem plenty pf articles saying THT is what Mike Pence wants.

That tells me that it is the usual circle jerks of SJWs and feminists and thus should be ignored.

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9 minutes ago, Turned Out Nice Again said:

Anybody else find female Masochism a real drag?

 

Do you mean physical / sexual masochism or this angst-ridden persecution complex thing?

Yes, re the sexual / physical thing, I do mainly because I am so fed up with women claiming to be 'feisty' - so many women seem to love that word - and for all this feminist stuff then when it comes down to it, in bed, the most outwardly feminist types, in my experience, end up being the most submissive.

It is also tiring, boring, frustrating, dull, etc, etc, when you go through all the hoops of chasing, asking out, dating, etc, a woman only to find that she is pretty inactive - compliant - in the bedroom. Men have to be a combination of marathon runners, sprinters and weight-lifters when it comes to sex, and to now be well versed in the entire karma sutra, and so many women, despite how they protest about what they do, do seem to basically just lay there.

 

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1 hour ago, The Masked Tulip said:

 

Do you mean physical / sexual masochism or this angst-ridden persecution complex thing?

Yes, re the sexual / physical thing, I do mainly because I am so fed up with women claiming to be 'feisty' - so many women seem to love that word - and for all this feminist stuff then when it comes down to it, in bed, the most outwardly feminist types, in my experience, end up being the most submissive.

It is also tiring, boring, frustrating, dull, etc, etc, when you go through all the hoops of chasing, asking out, dating, etc, a woman only to find that she is pretty inactive - compliant - in the bedroom. Men have to be a combination of marathon runners, sprinters and weight-lifters when it comes to sex, and to now be well versed in the entire karma sutra, and so many women, despite how they protest about what they do, do seem to basically just lay there.

Both really but primarily the sexual response. Maybe it's just me but passive females just turn me off.

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9 hours ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

 

Some reviews paint it as another 50 Shades Of Grey, a slight allegorical  Grimms feminist fairy tale, its much more interesting, as is the author.

" So the book is not “antireligion.” It is against the use of religion as a front for tyranny; which is a different thing altogether. "

Margaret Atwood - New York Times

 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/books/review/margaret-atwood-handmaids-tale-age-of-trump.html?mcubz=0

odd she doesn't mention Islam in her interview, I would have thought the IS was a good model for her book

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5 hours ago, The Masked Tulip said:

 

Do you mean physical / sexual masochism or this angst-ridden persecution complex thing?

Yes, re the sexual / physical thing, I do mainly because I am so fed up with women claiming to be 'feisty' - so many women seem to love that word - and for all this feminist stuff then when it comes down to it, in bed, the most outwardly feminist types, in my experience, end up being the most submissive.

It is also tiring, boring, frustrating, dull, etc, etc, when you go through all the hoops of chasing, asking out, dating, etc, a woman only to find that she is pretty inactive - compliant - in the bedroom. Men have to be a combination of marathon runners, sprinters and weight-lifters when it comes to sex, and to now be well versed in the entire karma sutra, and so many women, despite how they protest about what they do, do seem to basically just lay there.

 

That's why I'm a dominatrix!

Much more fun all round :Jumping:

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9 minutes ago, Miss S said:

That's why I'm a dominatrix!

Much more fun all round :Jumping:

 

That's OK - just as long as you can make a decent bacon & eggs aftewards  :Jumping:

 

Joking aside, in numerous surveys - not the Cosmopolitan ones but the supposedly scientific ones going all the way back to Kinsey - it is usually between 70 and 80 percent of women who identify as submissive sexually. Incidentally, it is usually about 70 to 80 percent of men who consider themselves dominant sexually. Heck, maybe Mother Nature has a plan after all.

Of course, if you try talking to a feminist about this you usually get screamed down in the first 2 - 3 seconds - well, if you do if you are in a public place. Private, in my experience, seems to be different.

Women who identify as dominant sexually is not the remaining 20 to 30 percent. Usually it is about 10 to 12 percent of women who consider themselves dominant sexually.

I think a lot of people still lie - even in surveys where they are supposedly guaranteed anonymity.

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9 hours ago, The Masked Tulip said:

I posted before over on TOS how a friend of mine, a BBC newsreader, is convinced that THT is going to come true.

If you ask me then, well, I think THT appeals to SJW's, feminists, etc, as it allows them to vilify men as oppressors whilst, as mentioned above, allowing them to fulfil their 50 Shades... fantasies. The whole concept of being kidnapped, taken prisoner against their will, held hostage, raped and ultimately forced to carry the rapist's baby are powerful themes of Domination & submission that you find elements of in most female erotic fiction from Mills & Bloom through to the more overt Fifty Shades to some far darker BDSM erotical that you can find online.

The fascinating part of THT for me are the parts where the heroine is taken by her owner to basically a swinger's club for the elite - here, supposedly, the women are forced to dress provocatively in lingerie and be the playthings of rich & powerful men - i.e. fulfilling yet again another common female fantasy of deniable sexual pleasure. I was forced to dress like this, to act like this, made , forced to do these things.

The more feminist the woman outwardly, IMPO, the more submissive and darker her submissive fantasies are in reality. Hence why I think that THT appeals to so many Guardian and BBC types.

I think that the same themes apply with regard to islam and whilst so many of the same Guardian and BBC types are not willing to see anything wrong with islam - deep down there is  some deep-rooted concept of virtually the same things happening to them - just substitute a harem for a swinger's club.

As Human Beings we, both men adn women, are very much in denial about the roles that Mother Nature / Evolution has had in shaping us over millions of years as dominant and submissive, as hunter and prey. I strongly feel that if more people were able to be open to their real, dark desires in this regard that more of us would be happy in our relationships.

 WTF? :o

Sorry I have fucking idea about the Handmaids Tale is and I've never read Mills n Boon or chick lit.

 

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47 minutes ago, davidg said:

odd she doesn't mention Islam in her interview, I would have thought the IS was a good model for her book

 

From our 2017 perspective Islam could be a more pervasive  representation than Old Dutch Cleanser but things worked out for the best for Atwood by not identifying a particular ideology, she could have suffered a similar reaction to Salman Rushdie if more blatant.

The Handmaiden's Tale would disappeared without trace and certainly wouldn't be popularised now.  

Plus, unlike the umbrage and retribution to Satanic Verses at least the great and good of Massachusetts were unlikely to respond with any kind of witch hunt. 

 

 

From the interview:

"The second question that comes up frequently: Is “The Handmaid’s Tale” antireligion? Again, it depends what you may mean by that. True, a group of authoritarian men seize control and attempt to restore an extreme version of the patriarchy, in which women (like 19th-century American slaves) are forbidden to read. Further, they can’t control money or have jobs outside the home, unlike some women in the Bible. The regime uses biblical symbols, as any authoritarian regime taking over America doubtless would: They wouldn’t be Communists or Muslims.

The modesty costumes worn by the women of Gilead are derived from Western religious iconography — the Wives wear the blue of purity, from the Virgin Mary; the Handmaids wear red, from the blood of parturition, but also from Mary Magdalene. Also, red is easier to see if you happen to be fleeing. The wives of men lower in the social scale are called Econowives, and wear stripes. I must confess that the face-hiding bonnets came not only from mid-Victorian costume and from nuns, but from the Old Dutch Cleanser package of the 1940s, which showed a woman with her face hidden, and which frightened me as a child. Many totalitarianisms have used clothing, both forbidden and enforced, to identify and control people — think of yellow stars and Roman purple — and many have ruled behind a religious front. It makes the creation of heretics that much easier."

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12 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

It's very popular amongst women but I've yet to hear a man volunteer that they watch it.

I've watched it! :/

I put it on series link thinking it might have some tits 'n' arse in it... what a mistake! xD

If this is some SJW sexual fantasy series then fucking kill me now. It's got absolutely nothing.

The sex is... in out... in out... wipe your cock on your tie. The premise is so much wank as the rich and powerful can fuck whoever they want now so why bring in religion and men with guns?. The religious aspect is farcical in the extreme and the sex club is more tame than the local disco back in the 90's.

Men want to fuck  women  everything. They don't want having children to be the driving force. Jeeze! We like the chase and the smell of blood. Not some defrosted chicken giblets served up once a month.

Where are the armed bandits going from house to house raping the handmaidens? Where are the homely wives killing the handmaidens in a jealous rage? Where are the real powerful men that are taking other peoples handmaidens to add into their harem?

The only way this is like 50 shades is that it's just as bad!

If this is the worst thing that women can think of happening to them then they need to turn of the fucking T.V. and go outside. If this was written by a 12 year old then it's a great job, but it wasn't.

I have to come to the conclusion that women are insane and know nothing about what drives a man.

 

 

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2 hours ago, JackieO said:

 WTF? :o

Sorry I have fucking idea about the Handmaids Tale is and I've never read Mills n Boon or chick lit.

 

Blame the Bronte sisters.

They created the female fantasy archetype of the uncontrollable domineering male later adopted by both Mills and Boon and Fifty Shades etc

Essentially it was all started by three old maids going mad on the moor.

 

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10 hours ago, DeepLurker said:

Interesting that you compare it to 1984. I read The Handmaid's Tale recently. I too thought of 1984, but they are IMO very different - 1984 describes in detail the entire society e.g. Winston Smith gets a book explaining how the entire EngSoc system works. Whereas The Handmaid's Tale is told from the viewpoint of one person - who can hardly leave her own home - describing what she sees/experiences day to day. She knows very little about what's happening beyond her own neighbourhood.

I also found the conclusions very different - 1984 is terrifying as the system is self-perpetuating. The Handmaid's Tale is "only" a brutal dictatorship, full of contradictions and corruption at the top level - e.g. the swinger party mentioned by TMT - that we can easily imagine collapsing in less than a century.

The chief protagonists of 1984 are all members of the ruling Party including Winston Smith who is a functionary at the Ministry of Truth. Orwell's novel is so telling because the system does not really worry that much about the Proles who make up the bulk of society who are easily manipulated by sport, lotteries, pornographic literature etc (sounds familiar). The full apparatus of social control and oppression is really only applied to members of the Inner and Outer Party. This applied to sexual relations as well as politics.

As you rightly point out the Handmaids Tale really fails to make it to first base as a dystopia because those running the society lacks the intellectual rigour essential to the existence of such an entity. A dystopian society where the powerful are simply corrupt, hypocritical and dictatorial will have no staying power. The ones to fear are those where the elite put power above any pleasure People like O'Brien in 1984 truly believe in the system they have created and apply their perverted principles as much to those who are part of the machinery of control as to the masses.

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9 hours ago, Flirtygirty said:

 The full apparatus of social control and oppression is really only applied to members of the Inner and Outer Party. This applied to sexual relations as well as politics.

 

The same system is in place in Western democracies.... ruling elite but the burden of running society falls on the outer party (middle classes) which is why the government clamps down on them hardest if they get out of line.

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