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Bryonna Taylor- police killing


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So another US case of a policeman killing a civilian; this one looks more to the issue that BLM claims to be concerned about - police overreaction and use of lethal force against innocents.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/prosecutors-drop-attempted-murder-charges-against-breonna-taylors-boyfriend/

In short, victim in bed with boyfriend, boyfriend has a legal handgun.  Police get a no-knock warrant because they think Taylors address is being used as a drug drop for an ex-boyfriend (who they have arrested).  Police claim they knock and announce they are police (so why a no-knock warrant?).  current boyfriend gets woken by door being kicked in, thinks its a home invasion and shoots low as a warning shot, hits a cop in the leg.  Police open fire with lots of shots, shooting the girl 8 times (!) and she dies.

 

This one does feel like it's a clear fuck up by police, not racist, just military style tactics being used against civilians (we will break down your door and if you resist kill you).

 

Why is BLM not pushing this case, whilst pushing George Floyd the baby-beater? 

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2 hours ago, wherebee said:

So another US case of a policeman killing a civilian; this one looks more to the issue that BLM claims to be concerned about - police overreaction and use of lethal force against innocents.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/prosecutors-drop-attempted-murder-charges-against-breonna-taylors-boyfriend/

In short, victim in bed with boyfriend, boyfriend has a legal handgun.  Police get a no-knock warrant because they think Taylors address is being used as a drug drop for an ex-boyfriend (who they have arrested).  Police claim they knock and announce they are police (so why a no-knock warrant?).  current boyfriend gets woken by door being kicked in, thinks its a home invasion and shoots low as a warning shot, hits a cop in the leg.  Police open fire with lots of shots, shooting the girl 8 times (!) and she dies.

 

This one does feel like it's a clear fuck up by police, not racist, just military style tactics being used against civilians (we will break down your door and if you resist kill you).

 

Why is BLM not pushing this case, whilst pushing George Floyd the baby-beater? 

Quite a few people on this forum are keen on being able to have guns. I can see the argument, but this kind of thing is certain to happen a lot more frequently, police are going to be a lot more trigger-happy if expecting to get shot at. 

 

Although it’s hugely irritating to have George Floyd presented as a great guy, his arrest was definitely a murder - shooting back having received fire (and one officer hit) is a lot less clear-cut. 

Plain clothes armed raids should be reviewed though, for sure. 

Edited by swiss_democracy_for_all
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6 hours ago, wherebee said:

Why is BLM not pushing this case, whilst pushing George Floyd the baby-beater? 

She gets mentioned a lot by BLM, in fact. The case did attract a lot of attention and people are rightly outraged about it.

If your question is more along the lines of why her death didn't start this massive wave of protests/riots while George Floyd's did, I can only assume that it's because of the widely circulated video showing the latter being callously suffocated to death in the street.

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7 hours ago, wherebee said:

This one does feel like it's a clear fuck up by police, not racist, just military style tactics being used against civilians (we will break down your door and if you resist kill you).

This has always been the real issue. Do not be distracted by statues.

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1 hour ago, sleepwello'nights said:

Except he wasn't. 

I'm starting to come around to this too. 

What the policeman did must certainly have had an impact. No doubt about that. But possibly more the straw that broke the camels back. 

As pointed out by a fair few folk that appear to know what they are talking about online - the fact Flloyd could move his head around whilst on the ground does not indicate enough pressure to cause the end result. Maybe contribute yes but not 100%.

At first I was fully of the opinion it was a straight up killing. 

When you hear about his health background and the drugs he was on however - it looks very different. 

The cop also appears to show no obvious sign of putting serious pressure at any time. His face does not grimace as it would if you were really forcing something. That's a natural thing you can't stop. 

It was 8.5 minutes long. Surely if you are putting enough pressure on someone's neck to die it would be game over far quicker than that ? 

Any knowledgeable info on this welcomed. 

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6 minutes ago, ccc said:

I'm starting to come around to this too. 

What the policeman did must certainly have had an impact. No doubt about that. But possibly more the straw that broke the camels back. 

As pointed out by a fair few folk that appear to know what they are talking about online - the fact Flloyd could move his head around whilst on the ground does not indicate enough pressure to cause the end result. Maybe contribute yes but not 100%.

At first I was fully of the opinion it was a straight up killing. 

When you hear about his health background and the drugs he was on however - it looks very different. 

The cop also appears to show no obvious sign of putting serious pressure at any time. His face does not grimace as it would if you were really forcing something. That's a natural thing you can't stop. 

It was 8.5 minutes long. Surely if you are putting enough pressure on someone's neck to die it would be game over far quicker than that ? 

Any knowledgeable info on this welcomed. 

 

Think this has been posted on here before but it's worth posting again.

https://medium.com/@gavrilodavid/why-derek-chauvin-may-get-off-his-murder-charge-2e2ad8d0911

 

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Some of the problems with the US police go back to George W Bush’s Patriot Act which basically allowed the local cops to tool up with military style hardware. It also effected the way they approached policing. Normally countries keep that sort of rough arm stuff for specialist units. Not that US cops were shy about shooting civilians before that time.

Edited by Virgil Caine
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^^ re. "Saint" Floyd. The other cops had pressure on his back too, which for an overweight guy would definitely restrict breathing in that position. 

He was a scrote not a hero or an angel, but let's not try to justify what was done to him. He told them repeatedly he couldn't breathe, they ignored him and he died - there's no getting around that. 

I think the cop may get  off  the murder charge though. He'll probably do time for whatever the equivalent of manslaughter is in the US.

 

Edited by swiss_democracy_for_all
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1 minute ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

^^ re. "Saint" Floyd. The other cops had pressure on his back too, which for an overweight guy would definitely restrict breathing in that position. 

He was a scrote not a hero or an angel, but let's not try to justify what was done to him. He told them repeatedly he couldn't breathe, they ignored him and he died - there's no getting around that. 

I think the cop may get  off  the murder charge though. He'll probably do time for whatever the equivalent of manslaughter is in the US.

 

Indeed. But I've also seen ex police stating this is the standard get out shout that almost every person uses in this position. 

So it's not that surprising they ignored a huge bloke fucked off his dead saying this over and over. 

Not saying it's right but none of us have been in that position so difficult to judge. 

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1 minute ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

^^ The other cops had pressure on his back too, which for an overweight guy would definitely restrict breathing in that position. 

He was a scrote not a hero or an angel, but let's not try to justify what was done to him. He told them repeatedly he couldn't breathe, they ignored him and he died - there's no getting around that. 

I think the cop may get  off  the murder charge though. He'll probably do time for whatever the equivalent of manslaughter is in the US.

 

The district attorney will come under political pressure to go for the murder conviction. They probably won’t offer a plea deal. The cop will likely walk free.

More riots!

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33 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

^^ re. "Saint" Floyd. The other cops had pressure on his back too, which for an overweight guy would definitely restrict breathing in that position. 

He was a scrote not a hero or an angel, but let's not try to justify what was done to him. He told them repeatedly he couldn't breathe, they ignored him and he died - there's no getting around that. 

I think the cop may get  off  the murder charge though. He'll probably do time for whatever the equivalent of manslaughter is in the US.

 

 

38 minutes ago, Boglet said:

 

Think this has been posted on here before but it's worth posting again.

https://medium.com/@gavrilodavid/why-derek-chauvin-may-get-off-his-murder-charge-2e2ad8d0911

 

You really have to read this.

The culpability of the officers is almost negligible in my opinion.

IF they genuinely believed he was in a state of exited delirium then they performed the arrest by the book.

 

Edited by GBDamo
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6 hours ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

Quite a few people on this forum are keen on being able to have guns. I can see the argument, but this kind of thing is certain to happen a lot more frequently, police are going to be a lot more trigger-happy if expecting to get shot at. 

 

Although it’s hugely irritating to have George Floyd presented as a great guy, his arrest was definitely a murder - shooting back having received fire (and one officer hit) is a lot less clear-cut. 

Plain clothes armed raids should be reviewed though, for sure. 

The problem is police wanting to play soldiers in the war on drugs. End that and there is no need for no knock warrants.

The other thing to do is end qualified immunity the police will then make sure they have the right information 

Sadly for BLM and many others this one does not fit the narrative 

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30 minutes ago, GBDamo said:

 

You really have to read this.

The culpability of the officers is almost negligible in my opinion.

IF they genuinely believed he was in a state of exited delirium then they performed the arrest by the book.

 

Interesting, thanks. I wonder how the political situation is going to match up against the legal one. If the cops can be shown to have followed agreed procedures and the yet-to-emerge bodycam videos have nothing more incriminating I guess they'll get off. But the way it looked, wowee that's going to be a tough court case.

Looks like procedures need updating to me. I wouldn't put a fat big bloke who has already complained of having difficulty breathing on his stomach and exert (at least moderate) pressure on his back and neck. His stomach will have been pressing on his lungs  in that position, aggravating any breathing difficulty..

 

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2 hours ago, ccc said:

I'm starting to come around to this too. 

What the policeman did must certainly have had an impact. No doubt about that. But possibly more the straw that broke the camels back. 

As pointed out by a fair few folk that appear to know what they are talking about online - the fact Flloyd could move his head around whilst on the ground does not indicate enough pressure to cause the end result. Maybe contribute yes but not 100%.

At first I was fully of the opinion it was a straight up killing. 

When you hear about his health background and the drugs he was on however - it looks very different. 

The cop also appears to show no obvious sign of putting serious pressure at any time. His face does not grimace as it would if you were really forcing something. That's a natural thing you can't stop. 

It was 8.5 minutes long. Surely if you are putting enough pressure on someone's neck to die it would be game over far quicker than that ? 

Any knowledgeable info on this welcomed. 

We don’t restrain anyone face down on the floor never had with mapa or maybo if they go down face first they are turned over another thing we don’t do is make them slump over to far .any pressure on the stomata area can interfear with breathing .you can choke someone out if you know what your doing in less than 10 seconds your not stoping them breathing your stoping blood thus oxeginsed blood geting to the brain .

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1 hour ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

 

Looks like procedures need updating to me. I wouldn't put a fat big bloke who has already complained of having difficulty breathing on his stomach and exert (at least moderate) pressure on his back and neck. His stomach will have been pressing on his lungs  in that position, aggravating any breathing difficulty..

 

From reading the article the police officers did as much as they could to calm Floyd down and keep him from harm. He resisted being sat in a police vehicle and was continually walking into the road, risking colliding with passing vehicles. The officers called an ambulance and it was whilst waiting for the ambulance to arrive that Chauvin eventually placed him in the position he was trained to use. He dud not use lethal force as can be seen from Floyd moving his neck during the time he was being restrained.

In martial arts training we have been told that a choke hold can kill in a matter of less than two minutes. 

It is also worth bearing in mind that current medical opinion is that someone lying prone on their stomach is able to breath more easily than if they are lying on their back.

The incident lasted a lot longer than the few seconds of the clip used to enrage the world and give Black Lies Matter an opportunity to stir up racial hatred.

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1 minute ago, sleepwello'nights said:

From reading the article the police officers did as much as they could to calm Floyd down and keep him from harm. He resisted being sat in a police vehicle and was continually walking into the road, risking colliding with passing vehicles. The officers called an ambulance and it was whilst waiting for the ambulance to arrive that Chauvin eventually placed him in the position he was trained to use. He dud not use lethal force as can be seen from Floyd moving his neck during the time he was being restrained.

In martial arts training we have been told that a choke hold can kill in a matter of less than two minutes. 

It is also worth bearing in mind that current medical opinion is that someone lying prone on their stomach is able to breath more easily than if they are lying on their back.

The incident lasted a lot longer than the few seconds of the clip used to enrage the world and give Black Lies Matter an opportunity to stir up racial hatred.

They might be able to breath easier but you can’t see the chest rise and fall so we have them face up .

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3 hours ago, sleepwello'nights said:

It is also worth bearing in mind that current medical opinion is that someone lying prone on their stomach is able to breath more easily than if they are lying on their back.

I'd dispute that  - on their back you have to be careful of the tongue blocking the airway if they lose consciousness so that's iffy too but ok if you're watching closely, and there's at least no pressure on the ribs and stomach - see Stokie's remark above. 

 

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19 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

I'd dispute that  - on their back you have to be careful of the tongue blocking the airway if they lose consciousness so that's iffy too but ok if you're watching closely, and there's at least no pressure on the ribs and stomach - see Stokie's remark above. 

 

The recovery position is to lay someone on their side angled forward, so closer to laying on their stomach than their back.

I recall one of the early Dr John Campbell's videos stated that there was a better recovery rate if the patient was laid on their stomach.

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9 hours ago, ccc said:

Indeed. But I've also seen ex police stating this is the standard get out shout that almost every person uses in this position. 

So it's not that surprising they ignored a huge bloke fucked off his dead saying this over and over. 

Not saying it's right but none of us have been in that position so difficult to judge. 

Exactly. Just do a quick perusal on the Internet and you will see plenty of videos where it takes 6 policemen to take down a violent person resisting arrest. Two or three coppers will struggle to do so without getting injured. Drugged up mentalists can easily give you a career-ending injury in seconds. A sibling who is police has been injured multiple times whilst arresting violent neds. Suffers from back issues because of it. 

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