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WorkingPoor

Plane crashlands on beach sunbathers Lisbon

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2 dead, plane went over a man's legs whilst he was sunbathing on the beach

What with all the aggro of mass airport delays etc have we reached #TouristSaturationPoint?

It can't be enjoyable down the Med this summer, just hoards of people causing infrastructure problems.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sunbathers-killed-beach-lisbon-portugal-light-aircraft-emergency-landing-latest-updates-a7873786.html

An eight-year-old girl and 50-year-old man have been killed after a plane crash landed on a beach near Lisbon, according to local media reports. 

Eyewitnesses said sunbathers ran towards the sea as the light aircraft made an emergency landing on the packed beach at Caparica, 30 kilometres south of the Portuguese capital.

The child was enjoying a day at the beach with her parents, who were unhurt in the incident, eyewitnesses said. 

The man who died had been sunbathing on a towel when the plane passed over his legs, they said.

The bodies lay covered on the sand as police cordoned off the area. 

The two occupants of the plane were unhurt and were led away by police. 

Edited by WorkingPoor

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That's a tough one. From the pilot's point of view you'd think if the only available landing area was a heavily populated Mediterranean beach at the height of summer, then it might be a better bet to ditch it into the sea or a field, or a cliff face, or frankly anywhere that it's only you who is going to die. But the survival reflex is incredibly strong. Poor sod will have to live with that decision for the rest of his life. I can't run him down, because without being faced with the same situation I have absolutely no idea if I would do the same.

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1 hour ago, WorkingPoor said:

2 dead, plane went over a man's legs whilst he was sunbathing on the beach

What with all the aggro of mass airport delays etc have we reached #TouristSaturationPoint?

It can't be enjoyable down the Med this summer, just hoards of people causing infrastructure problems.

 

It is a moot point

I know the UK weather is often crap in the Summer but temperatures in southern France and Italy have been up over 40°C in the past few days which is pretty horrible too.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/heat-builds-southern-eastern-europe-170802104851203.html

 

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'Killer!' Angry crowd yelled at pilot after he crash-landed on Portuguese beach killing girl, 8, and man

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/portugal-plane-crash-beach-caparica-10920958

"People wanted to attack the pilot and began to shout and call him a 'killer'.

"Everyone was really disgusted.”

Edited by WorkingPoor

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When was the plane last serviced? Did it meet all the regulations? How experienced was the instructor? Should learner pilots be learning over crowded areas?

Many unanswered questions.

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6 minutes ago, 201p said:

When was the plane last serviced? Did it meet all the regulations? How experienced was the instructor? Should learner pilots be learning over crowded areas?

Many unanswered questions.

All pilots should be 3000 feet above known crowds..that is the law.

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My wife told me a story about when she was young back in the early 90s. She was with her brother and came across a crashed Cesna in a field. Both occupants had died in the crash, and they reported it to the police as they were first on the scene. It was believed it was a husband and wife in the plane.

I don't pretend to know much about flying a real plane although I have chalked up a few hours on MS Flight simulator. However people don't generally know when their time is up - and I think people should always prepare for this in single engined aircraft, engine failure is real and unpredictable. The higher up you are, the more time you have to find somewhere safe to land.

Flight simulators hadn't been mainstream back then, and I suspect MS flight simulator has allowed many private pilots to practise landing with engine failure today.

Edited by 201p

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

Manslaughter charge for the pilot surely; it was clearly a beach full of people and he chose to land upon it.

Pilot rule one: Don't land on people.

One does wonder about the banner flyers at most med beaches.  Flying low just out to sea, an engine failure would bring the self same dillema.

1 minute ago, 201p said:

My wife told me a story about when she was young back in the early 90s. She was with her brother and came across a crashed Cesna in a field. Both occupants had died in the crash, and they reported it to the police as they were first on the scene. It was believed they it was a husband and wife in the plane.

I don't pretend to know much about flying a real plane although I have chalked up a few hours on MS Flight simulator. However people don't generally know when their time is up - and I think people should always prepare for this in single engined aircraft, engine failure is real and unpredictable. The higher up you are, the more time you have to find somewhere safe to land.

Flight simulators hadn't been mainstream back then, and I suspect MS flight simulator has allowed many private pilots to practise landing with engine failure today.

THis is practiced and demonstrated before you pass the PPL.  Nothing in a home PC flight sim is able to prepare you for the shock of silence.

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There are a few youtube videos of private aircraft crashing - one running out of power trying to climb a mountain, and another ducking and diving overhead power cables.

The general lesson - stick to your flight plan, and have an escape route.

There are old pilots, there are bold pilots, but there are no old and bold pilots.

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4 minutes ago, eight said:

The comments on that article are mong central.

they are.  The plane has a broken wingspar, and no sign of a fire.  The Article is as fake as the comments.

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Wonder why he didn't stick it in the sea just off the beach? I've seen that a few times before. Much less chance of twatting beachgoers and would attract far less opprobrium than he's about to receive.

There are innumerable amount of stories of doomed pilots steering everything from WW2 bombers to airliners away from public areas before they crash. In many cases it's been their last action.

I suppose it's like a ships captain abandoning ship before his passengers, there are some things you just don't do. Very poor show.

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Some local pilots occasionally go far too low over some of the Gower beaches. I have seen singe seat light aircraft and helios at a few hundred feet over beaches like Caswell or Langland. Clearly showboating or having a nose at the sunbathers. Has not come to trouble yet but hopefully Portugal will make some think twice.

When I heard about Portugal I feared people having been chewed up by the prop. The man was run over and presumably the girl was hit in a similar way.

 

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5 hours ago, BLOOLOO said:

they are.  The plane has a broken wingspar, and no sign of a fire.  The Article is as fake as the comments.

It looks like the wing strut is probably what hit the victims, damaging the strut and bending the wing as a result of the impact. The wing damage is probably a result of, not the cause of, the incident.

The plane should not have been flying low, so if it descended due to engine failure, I think it likely the pilot had sufficient altitude at first to head out to sea and ditch. If he instead chose to land on a crowded beach, that is disgraceful.

Edited by Happy Renting

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2 hours ago, Happy Renting said:

It looks like the wing strut is probably what hit the victims, damaging the strut and bending the wing as a result of the impact. The wing damage is probably a result of, not the cause of, the incident.

The plane should not have been flying low, so if it descended due to engine failure, I think it likely the pilot had sufficient altitude at first to head out to sea and ditch. If he instead chose to land on a crowded beach, that is disgraceful.

I doubt that...the main spar will take at least 8 tons of stress (assuming the plane weighs a ton and can pull 4 g)  Its also above head height of a child...If you look at this shot, there is no leading edge damage.  the strut is bent and I would guess that is a negative G breakage.plane.thumb.jpg.10e6cdb32007bb80e5fb28f8464263ff.jpg

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Reports said the two men in the plane could face a charge of negligent homicide and up to 16 years in jail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40817404

"The plane first hit the man, who had his back to it. Immediately after it lifted up and when it descended again it hit the child's head," another witness, Filipe Janeira, 34, told the Jornal de Notícias.

Agence France-Presse news agency said beachgoers surrounded the plane when it landed and confronted the two men inside.

"The girl's father and other people went to the plane and started hitting the rear," witness Celia Rocha told the Correio da Manhã newspaper .

The newspaper said that pilots were advised to veer away from people in an emergency, and to land in the sea instead of on a busy beach.

In August 2015, another small plane landed in the sea near the same beach after an engine malfunction.

Edited by WorkingPoor

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3 hours ago, BLOOLOO said:

I doubt that...the main spar will take at least 8 tons of stress (assuming the plane weighs a ton and can pull 4 g)  Its also above head height of a child...If you look at this shot, there is no leading edge damage.  the strut is bent and I would guess that is a negative G breakage.plane.thumb.jpg.10e6cdb32007bb80e5fb28f8464263ff.jpg

I am saying it is the strut that hit someone, bending it backwards. Where it is bent is only about 3ft above the ground.

The strut is there because the spar (if any) will not stand the g-forces on the wing by itself. Depending on whether positive or negative g is being pulled, the strut will be under compression or stretching. With the strut damaged, the spar (if any) was probably not strong enough to withstand a heavy landing.

I doubt there is actually a solid spar running through the fuselage and wings. The wing will just be bolted on. The spar in the wing, the central spar going through the fuselage and the spar in the opposite wing will bolt together. Rigid, but not solid.

Here's a pic showing the wing attachment points for a similar airframe. There seem to be two in this case, as is common, one for the leading edge wing spar, and another near the trailing edge. The wing is simply bolted on. Without the supporting strut, the wing would be free to move up and down a lot (and some movement is necessary and desirable)

_D3C6523.jpg

 

 

Edited by Happy Renting

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6 hours ago, Sgt Hartman said:

Wonder why he didn't stick it in the sea just off the beach? I've seen that a few times before. Much less chance of twatting beachgoers and would attract far less opprobrium than he's about to receive.

There are innumerable amount of stories of doomed pilots steering everything from WW2 bombers to airliners away from public areas before they crash. In many cases it's been their last action.

I suppose it's like a ships captain abandoning ship before his passengers, there are some things you just don't do. Very poor show.

Agreed a professional pilot would do their utmost to avoid landing on people, they should face charges.

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1 hour ago, Happy Renting said:

I am saying it is the strut that hit someone, bending it backwards. Where it is bent is only about 3ft above the ground.

The strut is there because the spar (if any) will not stand the g-forces on the wing by itself. Depending on whether positive or negative g is being pulled, the strut will be under compression or stretching. With the strut damaged, the spar (if any) was probably not strong enough to withstand a heavy landing.

I doubt there is actually a solid spar running through the fuselage and wings. The wing will just be bolted on. The spar in the wing, the central spar going through the fuselage and the spar in the opposite wing will bolt together. Rigid, but not solid.

Here's a pic showing the wing attachment points for a similar airframe. There seem to be two in this case, as is common, one for the leading edge wing spar, and another near the trailing edge. The wing is simply bolted on. Without the supporting strut, the wing would be free to move up and down a lot (and some movement is necessary and desirable)

_D3C6523.jpg

 

 

Cant see how the strut hit anybody on the feet....I remember the strut as being very solid indeed, the undercarriage being like an inverted U....I also understand the wing will sag if the strut is removed, effectively how it has ended up.

As usual, eye witnesses tell many different stories.

I have read on Pprune that the pilot lined up for the landing and people ran into the sea...possible he saw this and was stuck with the beach to miss the crowds in the sea.

Regardless, he wasnt high enough for a glide to safety....

 

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10 minutes ago, BLOOLOO said:

Cant see how the strut hit anybody on the feet...

I read that the plane ran over the man's legs. Perhaps the strut hit the child.

10 minutes ago, BLOOLOO said:

Regardless, he wasnt high enough for a glide to safety....

 I think he was to begin with, or should have been.

Edited by Happy Renting

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