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DTMark

Suicidal girl: what is the story here?

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This article is in the Guardian, so it doesn't really make much sense.

Except that I've read it three times and I still don't really understand what's going on.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/03/judge-warns-of-blood-on-our-hands-if-suicidal-girl-is-forced-out-of-secure-care

A 17 year old girl was convicted of a crime and placed in custody. She has previously made attempts to take her own life.

The judge and the article seem to be calling for a care place to be made available. When released again (it doesn't say what crime she committed) she may attempt to take her own life again.

Clearly this is a bit of a tragedy for the young girl concerned. The "system" doesn't rate this as important enough to provide a secure unit because she does not pose a risk to others. Seems like sensible criteria. Also, it appears, a fair amount of time, care and effort has been expended upon her so far. Where is this supposed to end? 

Lamb told BBC Radio 4’s World At One there were “too many examples of failures of care”, adding: “We are failing families across our country in a wholly unacceptable way.”

Where are her parents? The article doesn't mention them once, yet they're legally responsible for her. How much have they paid so far towards the State's costs? Why can't they take care of her? Why haven't they taken care of her?

This article is the headline on that propaganda-rag. The piece about the Muslim plot was there for about an hour and has gone now. Back to hand-wringing and "the cuts".

I'm really puzzled. What is the actual story? I hear that our provision for mentally ill patients is dire. Here, am I supposed to feel that we're letting someone down?

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If it was a life threatening physical condition she'd get treatment.  I'm not special pleading through personal experience of such problems (I don't have any) but I have dealt professionally with similar support contracts.

All of these sort of services are chronically underfunded as they're mostly invisible to the public.

Spending may not be the answer to everything but it if would solve most problems for mental health treatment. It does though need to be ring fenced to mental health or the local NHS trusts will just use it to cover their general deficits as they have in the past. 

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It does feel like there is subtle subtext (i.e. an agenda) here somewhere.

So she's not sufficiently at risk to be sectioned. But she might try to top herself......? Er, ok then.

And yes, where are the parents in this story? Is she in some sort of care, and it is not adequate for her needs? 

Mental health services are clearly being cut, and were probably not that amazing to begin with.

She clearly needs some sort of care/support, but no idea why it is headline news. 

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Good point about the comparison with a physical health problem. Albeit I would suppose that most physical problems get fixed and stay fixed whereas mental health issues can run and run.

I suppose "the system" doesn't come into play here because she's not an adult and therefore her parents are responsible for her.

Those could be a pair of waste-of-oxygen drug addicts who abandoned this child with those events leading her to where she is now. We don't know, we can only guess. 

Indeed these pieces of information which appear rather important are all missing, so I don't know whether I should have any sympathy for this girl or not.

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4 minutes ago, DTMark said:

Good point about the comparison with a physical health problem. Albeit I would suppose that most physical problems get fixed and stay fixed whereas mental health issues can run and run.

I suppose "the system" doesn't come into play here because she's not an adult and therefore her parents are responsible for her.

Those could be a pair of waste-of-oxygen drug addicts who abandoned this child with those events leading her to where she is now. We don't know, we can only guess. 

Indeed these pieces of information which appear rather important are all missing, so I don't know whether I should have any sympathy for this girl or not.

Given that she's a suicidal criminal at 17, and there's no tear-jerker back story, I think it's reasonable to assume they haven't really nailed the whole "being a decent parent" thing.

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Tbh, the problem with mental health is that it can't really be fixed.

My cousin is in her forties and has been anorexic since she was a teen. A few months ago she was in intensive care because of her condition. She literally looks like a pensioner due to her lifestyle.. The family have come to accept that she's not going to live to a ripe old age...

If someone is repeatedly pressing the "self destruct" button there is very little that families or wider society can do about it.

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1 hour ago, Great Guy said:

Tbh, the problem with mental health is that it can't really be fixed.

My cousin is in her forties and has been anorexic since she was a teen. A few months ago she was in intensive care because of her condition. She literally looks like a pensioner due to her lifestyle.. The family have come to accept that she's not going to live to a ripe old age...

If someone is repeatedly pressing the "self destruct" button there is very little that families or wider society can do about it.

Agreed, there isn't.

But I don't think that entirely abandoning them to their fate is acceptable.

I think they should have support and I don't need to know the details of any case to know that the level of support is nearly always describable as far too little.

The NHS is a bureaucratic money pit into which I would not be keen on any more money going but specific services, being Adult Social Care, State Care Home placement funding, and mental health services, do require more money as the wheels are coming off.

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11 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Agreed, there isn't.

But I don't think that entirely abandoning them to their fate is acceptable.

I think they should have support and I don't need to know the details of any case to know that the level of support is nearly always describable as far too little.

The NHS is a bureaucratic money pit into which I would not be keen on any more money going but specific services, being Adult Social Care, State Care Home placement funding, and mental health services, do require more money as the wheels are coming off.

Tbh, I'm never really sure how much support the NHS should provide to disabled people etc. I can't help thinking the NHS should really be about keeping productive members of society productive.

My line manager has a severely autistic son. He lives in his own home and has care 24/7. That must cost £100k a year... All for someone that can't tie his own shoe laces. I wouldn't want disabled put into homes like in Romania, however spending millions on a disabled person doesn't seem right either.

I remember as a kid I went on a days coach trip. There were some mentally disabled on the trip. I remember one of them pissed himself and the piss flowed down the entire aisle of the coach. Do I think mentally disabled should do fun things? Yes I do. However at the same time if someone pisses himself maybe they shouldn't be out in public.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

Tbh, I'm never really sure how much support the NHS should provide to disabled people etc. I can't help thinking the NHS should really be about keeping productive members of society productive.

My line manager has a severely autistic son. He lives in his own home and has care 24/7. That must cost £100k a year... All for someone that can't tie his own shoe laces. I wouldn't want disabled put into homes like in Romania, however spending millions on a disabled person doesn't seem right either.

I remember as a kid I went on a days coach trip. There were some mentally disabled on the trip. I remember one of them pissed himself and the piss flowed down the entire aisle of the coach. Do I think mentally disabled should do fun things? Yes I do. However at the same time if someone pisses himself maybe they shouldn't be out in public.

 

 

I mostly agree; I don't say spend a king's ransom.

But I wouldn't deny the boy care at £100k a year when you see how much gets chucked out to non-deserving benefits recipients such as the legal aid for the Pakistani rape gangs.

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1 hour ago, The Masked Tulip said:

Her parents could be exhausted and at the end of their tether. They could have been going through hell for years now.

Those who are there for their loved ones often face a terrible price re mental illness of their loved ones.

Agree, she is 17 is violent and has a personality disorder, they may not be physical capable of supporting her. If my daughter became violent, I'd not be able to restrain her. Mental health provision in this country for youngsters is on its knees. My daughter is under CAMHS, she's not seen a doctor since April, despite me chasing and chasing, she needs her meds re-assessed and her GP won't deal as she is under CAMHS.

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