Is buying now madness?

[One percent]

8 minutes ago, This Time said:

No conclusion, we feel like the estate agent is dicking us about. Owners are considering our second offer over the weekend, there are people seeing it tomorrow apparently. 

Don't forget the old adage, "how do you know when an estate agent is lying?"

"his lips move"....

[This Time]

11 minutes ago, One percent said:

Don't forget the old adage, "how do you know when an estate agent is lying?"

"his lips move"....

Pretty much. This agent has just sold the house of a friend of ours (twice now, he's just that good), we might ring him up in the morning and ask how he is from a seller's point of view then maybe see if we can deal with one of the other agents or figure out a way of contacting the sellers directly if it's not just us. 

Basically he implied that the vendors would take 20k under the asking price so we offered 30k under. When that was rejected we tried to 7.5k more but he rang up and persuaded us to up the offer a bit so we went to 20k under. Later on he rang us up and bitched at us for making silly increases to the offer. Luckily he talked to my husband because I probably would have told him to go fuck himself.

[One percent]

12 minutes ago, This Time said:

Pretty much. This agent has just sold the house of a friend of ours (twice now, he's just that good), we might ring him up in the morning and ask how he is from a seller's point of view then maybe see if we can deal with one of the other agents or figure out a way of contacting the sellers directly if it's not just us. 

Basically he implied that the vendors would take 20k under the asking price so we offered 30k under. When that was rejected we tried to 7.5k more but he rang up and persuaded us to up the offer a bit so we went to 20k under. Later on he rang us up and bitched at us for making silly increases to the offer. Luckily he talked to my husband because I probably would have told him to go fuck himself.

Would be the correct response imho.  Estate agents and car sales people. Lower than snakes. Not quite as bad as journalists and politicians but lowlife nonetheless. 

[satch]

14 minutes ago, This Time said:

Pretty much. This agent has just sold the house of a friend of ours (twice now, he's just that good), we might ring him up in the morning and ask how he is from a seller's point of view then maybe see if we can deal with one of the other agents or figure out a way of contacting the sellers directly if it's not just us. 

Basically he implied that the vendors would take 20k under the asking price so we offered 30k under. When that was rejected we tried to 7.5k more but he rang up and persuaded us to up the offer a bit so we went to 20k under. Later on he rang us up and bitched at us for making silly increases to the offer. Luckily he talked to my husband because I probably would have told him to go fuck himself.

The EA works for and is paid by the seller so expect no favours, you need to continue to look and not be seen as desperate to buy this one  .... there is always another viewer and another offer. Several years ago we made an offer on a property ... and they had justthat morning  had an offer for 10k more from another buyer, we said 'let them have it' ..... it never sold. Unfortunately will all property sales it is the seller or the buyer that loses out, never the EA, on another occasion we offered a fair(above actual value) price for a property on the understand that completion would be by a specific date to coincide with the end of an AST an avoid another 6 months commitment. The seller did not complete as agreed as the EA assumed we were desperate to buy the property and so they could mess us around, we pulled out on the new completion date .... they sold later for 7.7% less than we had offered.

 

to add ... the sellers changed EA so the original EA got no commision ....

[This Time]

11 hours ago, satch said:

The EA works for and is paid by the seller so expect no favours, you need to continue to look and not be seen as desperate to buy this one  .... there is always another viewer and another offer. Several years ago we made an offer on a property ... and they had justthat morning  had an offer for 10k more from another buyer, we said 'let them have it' ..... it never sold. Unfortunately will all property sales it is the seller or the buyer that loses out, never the EA, on another occasion we offered a fair(above actual value) price for a property on the understand that completion would be by a specific date to coincide with the end of an AST an avoid another 6 months commitment. The seller did not complete as agreed as the EA assumed we were desperate to buy the property and so they could mess us around, we pulled out on the new completion date .... they sold later for 7.7% less than we had offered.

 

to add ... the sellers changed EA so the original EA got no commision ....

Ah, schadenfreude - I bet that made your day. 

We're definitely a lot more willing to walk away than we were on Thursday - we're both stubborn gits and don't like being messed around. I've googled the guy now and it turns out he's a trainee so I think we're just going to ring up on Monday and ask to deal with someone more experienced - they'll probably be happy to find out that he's handling buyers badly rather than close ranks.

[This Time]

Gah - fucking time wasters. Offered 7.5% under, rejected. Then offered 5% under, they thought about it over the weekend then rejected. Final offer of 2.5% under has also been rejected. Could they not just have said at the start that they were holding out for full asking? They're in classic chase the market down mode. It was first on for 45k more last October, then they reduced the price by 15k in June and another 30k in July - they've apparently turned down a few offers over the current asking. The arse has fallen out of the bottom end of the market round here - I've got about 20 flats saved on Rightmove and only one has gone under offer in the last few weeks, most of them have been sitting around for months. We'll probably get this flat in a few weeks when they're forced to drop the asking again if we haven't found something else by then. 

[One percent]

20 minutes ago, This Time said:

Gah - fucking time wasters. Offered 7.5% under, rejected. Then offered 5% under, they thought about it over the weekend then rejected. Final offer of 2.5% under has also been rejected. Could they not just have said at the start that they were holding out for full asking? They're in classic chase the market down mode. It was first on for 45k more last October, then they reduced the price by 15k in June and another 30k in July - they've apparently turned down a few offers over the current asking. The arse has fallen out of the bottom end of the market round here - I've got about 20 flats saved on Rightmove and only one has gone under offer in the last few weeks, most of them have been sitting around for months. We'll probably get this flat in a few weeks when they're forced to drop the asking again if we haven't found something else by then. 

Years ago, the last time London prices were falling, we put an offer in on a house.  Survey downvalued it. It was a probate sale and snotty daughter would not drop the price. We offered to meet them halfway by borrowing off relatives. Our offer was refused so we walked and bought another house.

original house was on the market for ages and eventually sold for far less than what we were going to pay.  

Hold your nerve and you will get what you want - it's a buyers market in London. 

[sarahbell]

7 hours ago, This Time said:

Gah - fucking time wasters. Offered 7.5% under, rejected. Then offered 5% under, they thought about it over the weekend then rejected. Final offer of 2.5% under has also been rejected. Could they not just have said at the start that they were holding out for full asking? They're in classic chase the market down mode. It was first on for 45k more last October, then they reduced the price by 15k in June and another 30k in July - they've apparently turned down a few offers over the current asking. The arse has fallen out of the bottom end of the market round here - I've got about 20 flats saved on Rightmove and only one has gone under offer in the last few weeks, most of them have been sitting around for months. We'll probably get this flat in a few weeks when they're forced to drop the asking again if we haven't found something else by then. 

your mistake was to offer more.

 

make one offer. Best and final. And let them sweat. If the sell it to some idiot who will pay more then god luck to them.

[This Time]

Just now, sarahbell said:

your mistake was to offer more.

 

make one offer. Best and final. And let them sweat. If the sell it to some idiot who will pay more then god luck to them.

Our last offer was actually less than we'd originally decided we'd be willing to pay -  we didn't want to go in with that first in case we could get it for less. 

[SNACR]

A good tactic is to say you've been rash and lower your offer. 

[onlyme]

On 11/08/2017 at 20:26, This Time said:

No conclusion, we feel like the estate agent is dicking us about. Owners are considering our second offer over the weekend, there are people seeing it tomorrow apparently. 

Always had this rule myself with auctions - online, physical, otherwise. At the outset set your highest acceptable bid and be done with it (obviously not putting that forward at the outset), let it roll. Problem is a house is such a large outlay with huge emotional pressures all round. Estate agent will be playing it both ways, job is to knock seller's expectations down and pressure as high a bid out of purchaser possible. There are no right or wrong answers to this though.

[Green Devil]

On 8/18/2017 at 21:11, This Time said:

Our last offer was actually less than we'd originally decided we'd be willing to pay -  we didn't want to go in with that first in case we could get it for less. 

Not sure where you live or situation. 

If its a sellers market, then the agent will know how many mugs are though the door and what they can borrow. They also know what is a good price and what isnt. If you desperately want it and it is a good price they will hold out.

If its a fantasy valuation, then they will get noone though the door or no offers. They may get lots through the door and no offers, feedback usually says, too expensive. If this is the case then you make an offer and walk away and wait till the vendor calls you back in a few months begging to sell it to you.

[This Time]

On 20/08/2017 at 00:31, Green Devil said:

Not sure where you live or situation. 

If its a sellers market, then the agent will know how many mugs are though the door and what they can borrow. They also know what is a good price and what isnt. If you desperately want it and it is a good price they will hold out.

If its a fantasy valuation, then they will get noone though the door or no offers. They may get lots through the door and no offers, feedback usually says, too expensive. If this is the case then you make an offer and walk away and wait till the vendor calls you back in a few months begging to sell it to you.

It's outer London and as 1% says it's a buyers market at the moment. Million pound houses are still selling OK as far as I can tell but anything that would have previously been snapped up by a BTLer is just sitting there. Sellers haven't quite realised that their flats are no longer worth what a BTLer would have paid for them last year and most FTBs can't afford the asking prices. Saying that, this particular flat is reasonably priced compared with the rest of the flats on the market - everything else is either smaller, worse condition, more expensive or all three.

The estate agents called today to say that someone else is having a second viewing and are we prepared to up our offer. Probably estate agent bullshit. My husband has a really busy week at work so we're not going to do anything til next week. I've found few other flats that could be an option anyway. Two are large one beds, one has a large kitchen and a big garden with a shed, the other has a huge living room and a garage so should be ok size wise. There's also a flat that we were worried about the service charges on but has been reduced enough that it might be worth it.

[Green Devil]

6 hours ago, This Time said:

The estate agents called today to say that someone else is having a second viewing and are we prepared to up our offer. Probably estate agent bullshit. My husband has a really busy week at work so we're not going to do anything til next week. I've found few other flats that could be an option anyway. Two are large one beds, one has a large kitchen and a big garden with a shed, the other has a huge living room and a garage so should be ok size wise. There's also a flat that we were worried about the service charges on but has been reduced enough that it might be worth it.

Yeah im with you. Im fed up with the agent bullshit,'We have 3 offers at or above above asking'. Fuck em sell it to them and stop sniffing around asking me if i want to up my offer. Greedy parasites. 

[Long time lurking]

10 hours ago, This Time said:

It's outer London and as 1% says it's a buyers market at the moment. Million pound houses are still selling OK as far as I can tell but anything that would have previously been snapped up by a BTLer is just sitting there. Sellers haven't quite realised that their flats are no longer worth what a BTLer would have paid for them last year and most FTBs can't afford the asking prices. Saying that, this particular flat is reasonably priced compared with the rest of the flats on the market - everything else is either smaller, worse condition, more expensive or all three.

The estate agents called today to say that someone else is having a second viewing and are we prepared to up our offer. Probably estate agent bullshit. My husband has a really busy week at work so we're not going to do anything til next week. I've found few other flats that could be an option anyway. Two are large one beds, one has a large kitchen and a big garden with a shed, the other has a huge living room and a garage so should be ok size wise. There's also a flat that we were worried about the service charges on but has been reduced enough that it might be worth it.

I think that stands for most of the country ,BTL are trying to of load around my way but wage multiples of FTB`s don`t make the asking price  ...when it comes to buying BTL are out of the game for sure 

[onlyme]

On 18/08/2017 at 13:18, This Time said:

Gah - fucking time wasters. Offered 7.5% under, rejected. Then offered 5% under, they thought about it over the weekend then rejected. Final offer of 2.5% under has also been rejected. Could they not just have said at the start that they were holding out for full asking? They're in classic chase the market down mode. It was first on for 45k more last October, then they reduced the price by 15k in June and another 30k in July - they've apparently turned down a few offers over the current asking. The arse has fallen out of the bottom end of the market round here - I've got about 20 flats saved on Rightmove and only one has gone under offer in the last few weeks, most of them have been sitting around for months. We'll probably get this flat in a few weeks when they're forced to drop the asking again if we haven't found something else by then. 

There's a bit of a resurgence in the market around September as people come back off holiday but not like  peak selling season of spring and early summer..

Lowball offers aroundNovember /  December / January time probably best, we got our place at under 60% (overpriced  obviously initially)  of original asking price after a few years on the market. Less  bidders around at that time of year, especially with BTL largely out of the market,  a lone offer then  is less likely to attract counter bids with still many months for the seller to wait for the spring season.  In any market there are always a percentage looking to hang on for top dollar, the rump who will haggle a bit and the desperate. Best deals are where you find the desperate, completing broken chain, inheritance money needed, etc, etc and timed with quiet market periods be they seasonal or when the market is malfunctioning, a place that has been languishing on the market for months/years tends to attract suspicion after a while and is another prime target.

[This Time]

1 hour ago, onlyme said:

There's a bit of a resurgence in the market around September as people come back off holiday but not like  peak selling season of spring and early summer..

Lowball offers aroundNovember /  December / January time probably best, we got our place at under 60% (overpriced  obviously initially)  of original asking price after a few years on the market. Less  bidders around at that time of year, especially with BTL largely out of the market,  a lone offer then  is less likely to attract counter bids with still many months for the seller to wait for the spring season.  In any market there are always a percentage looking to hang on for top dollar, the rump who will haggle a bit and the desperate. Best deals are where you find the desperate, completing broken chain, inheritance money needed, etc, etc and timed with quiet market periods be they seasonal or when the market is malfunctioning, a place that has been languishing on the market for months/years tends to attract suspicion after a while and is another prime target.

Thanks for the advice. The spring bounce was more of a splat this year, maybe if September is the same then vendors will start getting a bit more realistic.

[This Time]

We looked at some more places, nothing really suitable. The place where I was worrying about the service charges turned out to have £4k a year charges which is just crazy. The place with the garage needed more work than we expected plus had £1.3k service charge and only £15k in the communal works fund so despite the much cheaper ticket price doesn't really work out any cheaper and has the possibility of large sums of cash being asked for if the roof needs replacing or whatever. The one with the shed turns out to have really narrow corridors so if I got to the point where I needed a wheelchair to get around the flat then we'd have to move. 

I managed to get my husband to up our offer to just under 99% of asking price which was rejected. He's now agreed to pay asking price if they make a small concession - either a token amount off the price or throw something extra in. So he's digging his heels in and the estate agents have said that one of the owners is also digging his heels in - waiting to hear if they're going to budge at all. This is all very stressful.

[Bus Stop Boxer]

7 hours ago, This Time said:

We looked at some more places, nothing really suitable. The place where I was worrying about the service charges turned out to have £4k a year charges which is just crazy. The place with the garage needed more work than we expected plus had £1.3k service charge and only £15k in the communal works fund so despite the much cheaper ticket price doesn't really work out any cheaper and has the possibility of large sums of cash being asked for if the roof needs replacing or whatever. The one with the shed turns out to have really narrow corridors so if I got to the point where I needed a wheelchair to get around the flat then we'd have to move. 

I managed to get my husband to up our offer to just under 99% of asking price which was rejected. He's now agreed to pay asking price if they make a small concession - either a token amount off the price or throw something extra in. So he's digging his heels in and the estate agents have said that one of the owners is also digging his heels in - waiting to hear if they're going to budge at all. This is all very stressful.

Is this a leasehold?

If so, i'd be careful.

I can see freeholders coming under much stress, and doxing leaseholders big time. 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15099934.Residents__left_suicidal__as_landlord_plans_to_charge_them___27_000_each_for_maintenance/

[This Time]

10 hours ago, shindigger said:

Is this a leasehold?

If so, i'd be careful.

I can see freeholders coming under much stress, and doxing leaseholders big time. 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15099934.Residents__left_suicidal__as_landlord_plans_to_charge_them___27_000_each_for_maintenance/

It's nominally a leasehold but functionally it's more like a share of freehold. The freeholder does nothing but cash their fiver a year ground rent cheque, any repairs are organised with the upstairs flat. 

[This Time]

Eeeeekkk!!! We're buying that flat.

[Green Devil]

I wasn't aware that as the freeholder you could levy a 'charge' on a leashold property to ensure you were paid the fees.

Very nasty!

[This Time]

And we've already been gazumped. Fucking fuckers.

[One percent]

8 minutes ago, This Time said:

And we've already been gazumped. Fucking fuckers.

You may look back on this and think, thank god. I'm convinced it's coming down (I have thought this for ten years and have been proved wrong for those ten years. )

[This Time]

28 minutes ago, One percent said:

You may look back on this and think, thank god. I'm convinced it's coming down (I have thought this for ten years and have been proved wrong for those ten years. )

Things have definitely picked up around here, the stuff that's been sitting around for months is all disappearing off now. Maybe this is the last hurrah and the well paid FTBs are going to run out soon.