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One percent

Fear the anarchists

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10 hours ago, One percent said:

Apparently we now have another group to fear.  Anarchists in Spain.  Where will it end?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/anarchists-vow-attacks-on-british-travellers-9tdrmjv3f

apologies, its behind a paywall.  I'll dig around for a better link

I read the article in the paper version.

Most of it related to people in places like Barcelona and Venice being fucked off about the impact of mass tourism. 

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18 minutes ago, Flirtygirty said:

I read the article in the paper version.

Most of it related to people in places like Barcelona and Venice being fucked off about the impact of mass tourism. 

I'm not suprised. I've seen how it has impacted on my home town and it isn't something to be wished for. 

 

Back to the thread title, apparently the So-Called BBC are calling them 'leftists ' rather than anarchists. The msm really need to align their narratives 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40826257

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36 minutes ago, One percent said:

I'm not suprised. I've seen how it has impacted on my home town and it isn't something to be wished for. 

 

Back to the thread title, apparently the So-Called BBC are calling them 'leftists ' rather than anarchists. The msm really need to align their narratives 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40826257

To be fair going back to the days of POUM the Spanish left had strong anarchist leanings. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/POUM

The backlash against mass tourism and the particularly the impact of the huge Cruise liners seems to be a fairly grass roots movement not something cooked up by agitators. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-tourism-backlash-idUSKBN1AK24L

I can understand the resentment about the Cruise ships in particular since they generate less buck per tourist for the local community than those who stay in local hotels, eat in restaurants at night etc. Essentially the Cruise companies leach off places like Venice and Dubrovnik while pocketing most of the profits themselves.

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8 minutes ago, Flirtygirty said:

To be fair going back to the days of POUM the Spanish left had strong anarchist leanings. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/POUM

The backlash against mass tourism and the particularly the impact of the huge Cruise liners seems to be a fairly grass roots movement not something cooked up by agitators. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-tourism-backlash-idUSKBN1AK24L

I can understand the resentment about the Cruise ships in particular since they generate less buck per tourist for the local community than those who stay in local hotels, eat in restaurants at night etc. Essentially the Cruise companies leach off places like Venice and Dubrovnik while pocketing most of the profits themselves.

The still on the Reuters video says it all. Just look at the hoards.  I don't know why anyone would pay good money to wander round in crowds like that.  

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Unless you directly profit from tourists (own a hotel, camp site, tourist shop) you don't want tourists.  You gain no benefit from their being in your town but get plenty of problems - traffic, crowds, queues, parking.

Not wanting tourists is not, of course, the same as being hostile to them.

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3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Unless you directly profit from tourists (own a hotel, camp site, tourist shop) you don't want tourists.  You gain no benefit from their being in your town but get plenty of problems - traffic, crowds, queues, parking.

Not wanting tourists is not, of course, the same as being hostile to them.

I thought it was travellers they has issues with, given the problems they cause i can understand it.

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2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Unless you directly profit from tourists (own a hotel, camp site, tourist shop) you don't want tourists.  You gain no benefit from their being in your town but get plenty of problems - traffic, crowds, queues, parking.

Not wanting tourists is not, of course, the same as being hostile to them.

I decided on smoked salmon for my tea, from the traditional smokehouse in Whitby. The walk along the cobbled streets of the old town should have been a joy. Instead it was like night of the living dead with masses of people wandering and shuffling around like zombies. They stop, change direction and are just a nuisance to navigate. As you say frank, I get no benefit from them.

two other issues, interlinked. The old town was a thriving community not that long ago.  Now most of the houses are second and holiday homes. Businesses that relied on a settled community have gone to be replaced by shops selling crap. As a local,said a few years ago, you can't buy half a pound of butter on the east side now. 

It is like a theme park. 

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I'm with the Spanish anarchists on this one. Mass tourism is like economic cancer for a community, they pervert the local economy, misdirect investment, cause untold environmental damage and are on the whole unsustainable. In a lot of european places it is too seasonal as well, ram packed for 3 months then nothing.

We should build resorts with 4 massive glass domes in every faded british seaside resort thats up for it, the beach dome, the theme park dome, the restaurant dome and the get fucking pissed out of your mind on cheap booze dome.

Project a V.R. sky onto the underside of them and stick a huge moving sun lamp that simulates the passing of the day.

Make the whole place duty free and there is no need to set foot in a lousy airport.

After all the uncultured masses do not go to Spain/Turkey/Greece for the culture!

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When the cruise ships head into Venice the locals get the hassle of thousands of extra tourists without the positives of economic activity. The cruise tourists have their accomodation and food provided so are unlikely to spend much in Venice.

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Just now, Great Guy said:

When the cruise ships head into Venice the locals get the hassle of thousands of extra tourists without the positives of economic activity. The cruise tourists have their accomodation and food provided so are unlikely to spend much in Venice.

Even if they did if you are one of the ?80% who live in Venice that doesn't derive their income from tourism you still wouldn't want them.

The only people that want their streets clogged with tourists are the small minority who are taking money off them.

I agree with @Chewing Grass, tourists should go where they're welcomed: Disneyland, Centre Parks.

Everyone else is happy to have a regular small stream of visitors who don't inconvenience them and keep the hotels and tea rooms going through the year; not some huge horde barreling down the M5 / A303 every summer.

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10 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Even if they did if you are one of the ?80% who live in Venice that doesn't derive their income from tourism you still wouldn't want them.

The only people that want their streets clogged with tourists are the small minority who are taking money off them.

I agree with @Chewing Grass, tourists should go where they're welcomed: Disneyland, Centre Parks.

Everyone else is happy to have a regular small stream of visitors who don't inconvenience them and keep the hotels and tea rooms going through the year; not some huge horde barreling down the M5 / A303 every summer.

 A lot of countries in Asia etc require tourists to buy a visa when they visit. Maybe that's the way forward? The cost of the visa would put off the cheapskate tourists (who no country really wants anyway) and it helps the placate the citizens of a country.

If I was a native of Venice I'd be happier with tourists if they had to pay a fee of say £20 a day. It's a sum that won't really put off high spending tourists but will stop the "bring your own sandwiches" crowd.

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Just now, Great Guy said:

 A lot of countries in Asia etc require tourists to buy a visa when they visit. Maybe that's the way forward? The cost of the visa would put off the cheapskate tourists (who no country really wants anyway) and it helps the placate the citizens of a country.

If I was a native of Venice I'd be happier with tourists if they had to pay a fee of say £20 a day. It's a sum that won't really put off high spending tourists but will stop the "bring your own sandwiches" crowd.

Or a bed tax but it would depend where the money went.  If it was a tangible benefit to locals such as "We will impose a bed tax and use the money to return to weekly bin collections, take 20% off your council tax, and halve the price of using your leisure centres" then great.  You'll put up with some summer traffic jams for those benefits.

I can't see it though, it would just get swallowed up by the council pension deficit and you would see zero benefit.

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1 minute ago, Cunning Plan said:

Do I take it that you lot have never been to a tourist destination?

Or is there a degree of hypocrisy here?

I have been to many. The thing that I won't do is all inclusive.

Not anywhere that I'll have to rub up against the great unwashed no.  

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11 minutes ago, One percent said:

Not anywhere that I'll have to rub up against the great unwashed no.  

So you've never visited Paris, Rome, Florence, Vienna, Naples, Nice, Staithes, Venice, The lake District, Mousehole to name but a few?

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4 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

So you've never visited Paris, Rome, Florence, Vienna, Naples, Nice, Staithes, Venice, The lake District, Mousehole to name but a few?

Steers, the lakes and that is it. Steers as it is local and I would not dream of venturing there in season. The lakes, did the honeymoon there and went again last year. Both out of season. 

Coming from a holiday destination and working in central London, the last thing I want on holiday is to be in amongst crowds. 

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3 minutes ago, One percent said:

Steers, the lakes and that is it. Steers as it is local and I would not dream of venturing there in season. The lakes, did the honeymoon there and went again last year. Both out of season. 

Coming from a holiday destination and working in central London, the last thing I want on holiday is to be in amongst crowds. 

That is fine. The problem is that some of the world's most amazing places will, by definition, be popular.

That said, some of the most beautiful places I have been are almost deserted. Primarily because they are bloody hard / expensive to get to.

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I don't think Northern European Cities count really as they are always busy and generally fleece everyone. If I do the lake district/cornwall/cotswolds/scotland/wales I never take sarnies, use small eating establishments, you must try Petes Eats in Llanberis, buy sausages from Waberthwaite, try the station at Hassop. If I stay over its in a B&B or Hotel, never a fricking Tent and I cant see the point of dragging a caravan around as a £20K Caravan plus £40/day pitch fees plus the extra fuel equals 350 nights in a decent place with the money going to local british peeps.

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29 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Do I take it that you lot have never been to a tourist destination?

Or is there a degree of hypocrisy here?

I have been to many. The thing that I won't do is all inclusive.

I think it's more that some people have an appreciation that mass tourism inconveniences the locals... 

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35 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Do I take it that you lot have never been to a tourist destination?

Or is there a degree of hypocrisy here?

I have been to many. The thing that I won't do is all inclusive.

Well the people doing the complaining in the article in the o/p are in Spain and Italy not posting here. From what I can see Cruise liners are essentially distorting the tourism market in some places as the normal limits applied to conventional tourist numbers such as hotel prices, transport costs, restaurant bills don't apply to them. The big Cruise ships sailing into Venice are capable of disgorging up to 44,000 people into St Marks square a day to buy Chinese made souvenirs. 

http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=202826

 

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2 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

I think it's more that some people have an appreciation that mass tourism inconveniences the locals... 

I think you have to differentiate between good tourism and bad tourism.

Cruise ships are generally bad. Independent travellers, of all types, are generally good. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

That is fine. The problem is that some of the world's most amazing places will, by definition, be popular.

That said, some of the most beautiful places I have been are almost deserted. Primarily because they are bloody hard / expensive to get to.

I did a walk yesterday. Parked in goathland, here

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goathland

it was not very nice in the village, full of people who had been bussed in.  However, that was just the start of my walk and I headed out over the moors. I didn't see one other person.  Bliss.  Se photo below. 

Where have you been that you would recommend that is far from the madding crowd?

IMG_0700.JPG

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