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Obvious from day 1.

What really f***s me off about the UK now is that there are still old school here who just do not have it in their DNA to milk the system, to rob the welfare state when it is after all a good and dece

Apparently 500k fraud in solihull uncovered. Bank accounts frozen. 8 arrests. I put on pistonheads that it is obviously muslims and comment got removed lol

4 minutes ago, RJT1979 said:

It could be just blatent fraud. Non existent employees. They paid out without checks. Will always be a few mipuiris who take a chance.

being asked to cover for employee on furlough, extra administrative tasks or working for a company linked to the main company while on furlough. 

In this case probably a language issue, so will be let off

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16 minutes ago, ashestoashes said:

people put on furlough but continuing to work ? think most will get off with it as hmrc don't have the manpower

I thought that to but when it comes to the self employed they will be asking for it back there is a good reason they did not give it to anyone that did not have three years of records at HMRC they obviously need something to compare to see if they had a drop in income no drop we will have that back next year in the mean time that money will find it`s way into the economy giving it a boost

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Posted (edited)

Something fishy here. Firstly it's obvious that the scale of fraud - Muz or non-Muz - from the furlough scheme is huge. Why would they go after small fish like this - £500k isn't much for a scam involving 8 people really, when you consider that the police only investigate something like 0.05% of all reported white-collar crimes...

As always the devil is in the details: he was already on their hitlist.

Quote

The man was also arrested in relation to a suspected multi-million pound tax fraud and alleged money laundering offences, HMRC said.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/09/man-arrested-in-solihull-on-suspected-half-million-pound-furlough

 

99.99% of all furlough fraud will go undetected. You have better odds of winning the lottery than getting caught IMO.

Edited by spunko
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11 minutes ago, RJT1979 said:

Will they take back self employed scheme money if it means all money was surplus in the end? Really? 

Why have they limited it to those with three years records if there is no drop in earnings they will be asking for it back at some point ,if it was pure helicopter money they would have given it to everyone ,

I`m a contractor but i work PAYE i have had jack shit the same as 3 million others in a similar situation 

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4 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

Why have they limited it to those with three years records if there is no drop in earnings they will be asking for it back at some point ,if it was pure helicopter money they would have given it to everyone ,

I`m a contractor but i work PAYE i have had jack shit the same as 3 million others in a similar situation 

Why ever would you do that?

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, ad_ceng said:

Why ever would you do that?

All over the place short term work shut downs mainly steel works Power stations Petro Chems 

You now have the same ability to claim back expenses  as the self employed but no hassle of keeping a set of accounts ,the difference in savings is now negligible in my game   

Edit i read that as where not why  

Edited by Long time lurking
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4 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

All over the place short term work shut downs mainly steel works Power stations Petro Chems 

You now have the same ability to claim back expenses  as the self employed but no hassle of keeping a set of accounts ,the difference in savings is now negligible in my game   

Edit i read that as where not why  

Interesting,  not sure what if any benefits you might get but most contractors pay minimum wage £730 a month and take rest as dividends much lower tax lol mind there is the 19% corporation tax 

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7 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Honestly I am at a loss to understand why asking non furloughed staff to undertake extra work to cover for furloughed staff is an issue?

cos people are furloughed because the workload isn't there, if someone is covering your work then either means you're not required or fraud

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, ad_ceng said:

Interesting,  not sure what if any benefits you might get but most contractors pay minimum wage £730 a month and take rest as dividends much lower tax lol mind there is the 19% corporation tax 

Then you add in the cost of accounting then add in the number of companies that will only entertain PAYE so you are limiting work availability

Then price up public liability insurances if you are carrying out hot work on an oil refineryetc  

I know people who do it and have done it myself and i have seen what they gain ,on £50k ish they are £1500 up tops and that will be less now if you have a pension 

Edit my money is also on NI contributions will soon be aligned with PAYE pay back for the furlough money

Edited by Long time lurking
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1 minute ago, ashestoashes said:

cos people are furloughed because the workload isn't there, if someone is covering your work then either means you're not required or fraud

I don't agree. If each person's workload has halved, asking one person to cover the other is fair enough and certainly not fraud.

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

I don't agree. If each person's workload has halved, asking one person to cover the other is fair enough and certainly not fraud.

 

The rules of the law seemed quite specific. You are furloughed. You dont work.

I see the point made. However the workers who arent furloughed..arent furloughed as you highlight.

Its a fine point but dont see how HMRC would make it stick.

It is what it is.

Edited by The Grey Man
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The whole scheme, whilst well meaning, was open to abuse in the first place. And I am not going to judge.

A very large number of businesses are family firms. Mom, Pop and maybe a kid.

Anyone with half a brain will furlough two out of three of them. Meaning one will now be left knackered having worked twice as hard (assuming there is some business left) whilst the others can only watch with their hands tied behind their back, unable to assist.

Or in a non family small business, the boss will furlough the staff to cut costs and work himself to death trying to cover their workload.

I know people in both scenarios. And it is no surprise that some will eventually cheat the system.

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HMRC are going to have a field day, I think..

They introduced a complex AI system and it’s done well apparently. They’ve forced a lot of tax stuff to go digital so they have a copy of what you declared and can only perjure yourself if you say otherwise. 

I would suspect they’re now collecting all this data and waiting to jump on evaders.

But they don’t want to wait too late or people will be ‘bust’.

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1 hour ago, ashestoashes said:

people put on furlough but continuing to work ? think most will get off with it as hmrc don't have the manpower

Don't know about PAYE, but for self employed guidance is to take the money and carry on working:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-grant-through-the-coronavirus-covid-19-self-employment-income-support-scheme

How the grant works

If you receive the grant you can continue to work, start a new trade or take on other employment including voluntary work, or duties as an armed forces reservist.

The grant does not need to be repaid but will be subject to Income Tax and self-employed National Insurance.

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What really f***s me off about the UK now is that there are still old school here who just do not have it in their DNA to milk the system, to rob the welfare state when it is after all a good and decent concept to help those in need in hard times.

I remember tearing into some one 20 odd years ago for being a racist c*** when he suggested that there was a news letter going around the Tech college by the Muslim community on how to get as much as you can off the welfare system including housing benefit, now I know it went far deeper than that.

I have known good decent people over the years who for the first time have had to use the welfare system   after paying into it for so long, but their naivety and lack of life conning skills left them well short of what they were entitled because they had no idea how to play the system

I have no doubts that furlough and a few of the other C-19 handouts are being totally abused by one section of our beloved rainbow nation

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