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Turkey turns 1500 year old Christian cathedral into a mosque. The two things I take from this is that I wouldn't visit Turkey for a holiday and multiculturalism seems to be something only white W

The answer to that is fairly self evident. Most of the liberal European West, apart from a few former Eastern block countries will be Muslim states by the time this century is over. Turkey m

Shia Islam seems to be "compatible" with the modern world. However other Muslims consider them heretics and literally kill them. Muslims seem really really bad at controlling the extremists in their c

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16 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

Turkey turns 1500 year old Christian cathedral into a mosque.

And not for the first time. Perhaps a historian can remind me, whatever happened to the mighty Ottoman Empire?

It does seem a little bit odd, to take your country's most popular tourist attraction, say, "Fuck off, tourists," and turn it into just another place of worship.

Perhaps the next step is to commandeer the all-inclusive resorts and turn them into madrassas?

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18 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

Turkey turns 1500 year old Christian cathedral into a mosque.

The two things I take from this is that I wouldn't visit Turkey for a holiday and multiculturalism seems to be something only white Western countries practice. 

Turkey was one of the few "decent" Islamic countries in the world and it seems to be turning into another failed shithole.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53375739

To play devil's advocate it was a mosque for 600 years before being turned into a "secular museum". I don't think it's as offensive as some people are making out personally. 

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6 minutes ago, spunko said:

To play devil's advocate it was a mosque for 600 years before being turned into a "secular museum". I don't think it's as offensive as some people are making out personally. 

I was thinking the same..  

Most of the opposition seems to be from secular Turks who don’t want to see a return to religious fundamentalism,  in this case specifically Islam.

So the dispute seems to be mostly ideological/political..  is Turkey’s future religious or secular governance.  I can see why they are concerned. I would be.  Though I can’t imagine most religion is likely to survive more than another couple of generations so it may all be a bit pointless.  Even the Middle East will reach enlightenment eventually.

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15 minutes ago, spunko said:

To play devil's advocate it was a mosque for 600 years before being turned into a "secular museum". I don't think it's as offensive as some people are making out personally. 

I think that makes it an even worse act rather than better. "We previously tolerated other religions, now we fucking well don't". 

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1 minute ago, The Idiocrat said:

I think that makes it an even worse act rather than better. "We previously tolerated other religions, now we fucking well don't". 

It's a difficult one because most dosboders if they were Turkish would despise Ataturk and his wishy washy centrist appeasing politics. Erdogan is a nationalist and would have full support on here for having the balls to turn the mosque back into a mosque no doubt...

 

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Just now, spunko said:

It's a difficult one because most dosboders if they were Turkish would despise Ataturk and his wishy washy centrist appeasing politics. Erdogan is a nationalist and would have full support on here for having the balls to turn the mosque back into a mosque no doubt...

 

That's a fair point. 

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5 minutes ago, maynardgravy said:

It may not be offensive as such but it is a political statement. As has been said, what would the multiculturalists make of an ancient mosque being turned into a church? 

Presumably they'd be angry but the multicultists are up in arms about this too though, the Guardian has gone full on anti Erdogan now. 

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16 minutes ago, spunko said:

To play devil's advocate it was a mosque for 600 years before being turned into a "secular museum". I don't think it's as offensive as some people are making out personally. 

Fair enough. The father of modern Turkey turned the HS into a museum about a hundred years ago.

 

He had this to say about Islam.. 

"absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives."

It's hard not to think this is a backwards step for the world. On the one hand whitey is meant to feel guilty about stuff that happened 200 years ago while our kebab selling cousins are free to piss off the Christian world.

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2 minutes ago, spunko said:

It's a difficult one because most dosboders if they were Turkish would despise Ataturk and his wishy washy centrist appeasing politics. Erdogan is a nationalist and would have full support on here for having the balls to turn the mosque back into a mosque no doubt...

 

True,  except Erdogan wants to bring back religious teaching in schools and make the state essentially more “Islamic”.

If the roles were reversed I’m not sure even dosbodders would be calling for more bible studies in school etc.  I would guess we are probably broadly agnostic/athiest on here.

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33 minutes ago, spunko said:

To play devil's advocate it was a mosque for 600 years before being turned into a "secular museum". I don't think it's as offensive as some people are making out personally. 

Originally for approx 1,000 years before that a church, being a secular place, very much symbolic and a nod to Turkey becoming a more open secular country. High regressive, have friends over there, been there on multiple occasions but probably wlll never go back now.

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3 minutes ago, Bornagain said:

It is simple maths - the Muslims are outbreeding the indigenous and as soon as they have around 40% of the electorate they will set the agenda.

Racially you are probably correct.  But religion is a choice,  and it only takes one generation of kids to reject it in favour of PlayStation and the whole thing crumbles apart and becomes irrelevant.

My grandparents were religious,  my parents weren’t.  
My mates in Mexico,  their parents are religious, but they aren’t.

Middle East will eventually follow the same trend.  We just need to get them all playstations and Netflix.

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11 minutes ago, Libspero said:

Racially you are probably correct.  But religion is a choice,  and it only takes one generation of kids to reject it in favour of PlayStation and the whole thing crumbles apart and becomes irrelevant.

My grandparents were religious,  my parents weren’t.  
My mates in Mexico,  their parents are religious, but they aren’t.

Middle East will eventually follow the same trend.  We just need to get them all playstations and Netflix.

It's not really a choice if you get killed if you want to leave...

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Just now, Libspero said:

Racially you are probably correct.  But religion is a choice,  and it only takes one generation of kids to reject it in favour of PlayStation and the whole thing crumbles apart and becomes irrelevant.

My grandparents were religious,  my parents weren’t.  
My mates in Mexico,  their parents are religious, but they aren’t.

Middle East will eventually follow the same trend.  We just need to get them all playstations and Netflix.

When you are talking about a free state then you are correct.

Unfortunately the powers that be (the state, facebook, twitter, pretty much all social media etc etc) already have huge potential to spy into your life, social media has made it almost impossible to openly communicate views that do not align with the lefts agenda - this is only going to get worse.

We are living in an increasingly less free state  - by the time we have a Muslim government it will be totalitarian and the indoctrination will be complete.

I hoped that Trump and then Boris rising to power would be the prick that burst the bubble of influence that the increasingly intolerant left have over government, the media and popular culture -  but I was wrong - the left have slowly being taking control of the hearts and minds of the nation for the last 50 years, growing like a cancer that is slowly killing us from the inside out.

The lefts influence started in the Universities, Schools and they now hold positions in society where they have the ability to influence public opinion by what they say, and perhaps more importantly by what they don't say - a significant part of their power has been used deplatforming anybody that they don't agree with - remember there is only one reason you don't agree with the intellectual left - you are a Nazi and a racist...

This has been taking place over most of my lifetime, but it is only the last 5-10 years that I have really noticed - we used to laugh at the people selling the  Socialist Worker Newspaper outside the railway station - but they have won..

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3 minutes ago, Libspero said:

True,  but for the moment at least, Turkey is still a democracy.

Islamic countries seem to go through phases of getting better then turn into shitholes. Seemingly Afghanistan used to be a destination for schoolkids then it turns into a shithole. Iran is the same. Theres not one Islamic country I'd really like to live in for the rest of my life.

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26 minutes ago, Libspero said:

Racially you are probably correct.  But religion is a choice,  and it only takes one generation of kids to reject it in favour of PlayStation and the whole thing crumbles apart and becomes irrelevant.

My grandparents were religious,  my parents weren’t.  
My mates in Mexico,  their parents are religious, but they aren’t.

Middle East will eventually follow the same trend.  We just need to get them all playstations and Netflix.

And a six pack of Pepsi just to be sure. 

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7 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

Islamic countries seem to go through phases of getting better then turn into shitholes. Seemingly Afghanistan used to be a destination for schoolkids then it turns into a shithole. Iran is the same. Theres not one Islamic country I'd really like to live in for the rest of my life.

Can’t particularly fault you’re logic..  mixtures of poverty and religious fundamentalism don’t make for particularly idyllic places to want move to.

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1 hour ago, maynardgravy said:

It may not be offensive as such but it is a political statement. As has been said, what would the multiculturalists make of an ancient mosque being turned into a church? 

there are many in Andalusia that have been, including the magnificent Cordoba Cathedral which was a Moorish mosque

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