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Inclusive to diversity


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Posted (edited)

Alongside other non-financial requirements, such as design quality, the project team is developing criteria to support greater diversity and inclusion in the industry and include these as a condition for joining the panel.

So industry quotas for brickies to be diverse?

 

it will be able to better address specific housing needs.

 

Houses are houses.
How big they are should be down to how much people can afford. not how much the tax payer should be drained for.

Edited by sarahbell
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Diversity is all bollocks. 

Either you can do the job or not. It is why Boeing cannot build space craft any more or aircraft that stay in the sky they have moved away from employing capable to employing people because of their color, religion, sex, orientation etc.

Most female engineers I have met have been pretty poor, infact if you look at most of the ones held up as role models they do not do hands on engineering  which is technical but mostly project management etc which is easier 

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It's just words.

The companies to which they give grant have already had to sign up for all this nonsense anyway.

Though again it's simply more words.

File under "modern slavery policy" in the wastepaper basket of history.

You think Homes England would anyway have learned its lesson with Ujima 2006 - 2008; the first housing association to go bust.

Its barely credible expansion plans were nodded through by the regulator primarily because it was a BAME association; no predominantly white HA would have been allowed to plan for such ludicrous levels of grant and debt.  But Homes England so wanted a hugely successful black run HA that they turned off their brains. 

https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/ujima-why-didnt-anyone-step-in-11624

 

 

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8 minutes ago, ad_ceng said:

Most female engineers I have met have been pretty poor,

Female software developers are generally good I find. Maybe only the good ones stick at it and the rest drift off into release management or something else as you say.

I used to work with a lady well past retiring age but she didn't want to go. In those days retirement ages were compulsory so the management kept dreaming up ways to extend her. She was quite thin and wrinkly with grey hair - your classic dear old lady in fact and you'd expect to see her doing crochet or wibbling about what her Albert did in the war. 

In fact she was pretty damn smart and I used to take her my kernel dumps (huge box of lineprinter paper in mainframe days) and after a cursory look she'd say something like "your descriptor at LNB+6 has gone off the end of your memory segment you silly arse." 

 

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1 minute ago, Funn3r said:

Female software developers are generally good I find. Maybe only the good ones stick at it and the rest drift off into release management or something else as you say.

I used to work with a lady well past retiring age but she didn't want to go. In those days retirement ages were compulsory so the management kept dreaming up ways to extend her. She was quite thin and wrinkly with grey hair - your classic dear old lady in fact and you'd expect to see her doing crochet or wibbling about what her Albert did in the war. 

In fact she was pretty damn smart and I used to take her my kernel dumps (huge box of lineprinter paper in mainframe days) and after a cursory look she'd say something like "your descriptor at LNB+6 has gone off the end of your memory segment you silly arse." 

 

That is why I said most, I have worked with a few who are good. 

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I'd probably lean towards @ad_ceng's experience in that regard, on the whole female developers haven't been great. I suspect they have been given far more opportunity to fuck up or not be good enough and been given a pass. Even a sniff of a women interviewing at an IT company is already put to the top of the pile.

My favourite was a young Spanish girl we hired, by her own admission she didn't have a huge amount of experience but we gave her a go. She used to send me emails about once a week asking technical questions about what she was working on, nothing too crazy but stuff she really should have known. It wasn't that often and so not a great burden. It was only after she left about a year that everybody in the company realised that she used to do the same to everybody, she would start of with a junior member of staff for the first part, then feed what she found out to somebody a bit more senior, then that info to the next up the food chain and so on. Essentially she had a team of about 10 blokes doing all her work for her.

Another one was an Italian girl named Andrea, was fast tracked through the process to get a priority interview, of course turns up and it's a bloke. Was a nice fella and got the job but the boss has never lived it down.

But go back to the 70's/80's programming seemed to be a fairly well balanced industry, when I first started in the mid 90's there were plenty of capable women in the job in large numbers relative to today.

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58 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

Female software developers are generally good I find. Maybe only the good ones stick at it and the rest drift off into release management or something else as you say.

I used to work with a lady well past retiring age but she didn't want to go. In those days retirement ages were compulsory so the management kept dreaming up ways to extend her. She was quite thin and wrinkly with grey hair - your classic dear old lady in fact and you'd expect to see her doing crochet or wibbling about what her Albert did in the war. 

In fact she was pretty damn smart and I used to take her my kernel dumps (huge box of lineprinter paper in mainframe days) and after a cursory look she'd say something like "your descriptor at LNB+6 has gone off the end of your memory segment you silly arse." 

 

Agreed.

Absolutely the best all round soft developer I know is a woman who is technically excellent but also has the business and interpersonal skills. I have worked with a fair few men who were as good on the programming side but many of them had poor grasp of the businesses overall needs and a fair number could not be allowed near the customers because their people skills were to put it mildly lacking.

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44 minutes ago, gilf said:

Another one was an Italian girl named Andrea, was fast tracked through the process to get a priority interview, of course turns up and it's a bloke. Was a nice fella and got the job but the boss has never lived it down.

A boy named Sue :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, ad_ceng said:

That is why I said most, I have worked with a few who are good. 

Have to agree. The good few I have worked with were not just good, but exceptional.

I dated an aerospace engineer for a while some years back. Extraordinarily bright woman, not sure how I pulled it off. Ungentlemanly to say so but also one of the most magnificent fucks I have ever had. Not one single aspect of her life she wasn't intense about. Lost her when she moved to the other end of the country to do her doctorate and build satellites for a living.

Don't get me started on soft skilled female project managers.

 

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24 minutes ago, MrLibertyRedux said:

Have to agree. The good few I have worked with were not just good, but exceptional.

I dated an aerospace engineer for a while some years back. Extraordinarily bright woman, not sure how I pulled it off. Ungentlemanly to say so but also one of the most magnificent fucks I have ever had. Not one single aspect of her life she wasn't intense about. Lost her when she moved to the other end of the country to do her doctorate and build satellites for a living.

Don't get me started on soft skilled female project managers.

All the talk in this thread of breeding age women and nary a mention of shagging any of them ... 

Thread rescued. Good job sir.

Full disclosure - I've shagged a scientist and an engineer never a fellow programmer.

Edited by goldbug9999
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29 minutes ago, MrLibertyRedux said:

Have to agree. The good few I have worked with were not just good, but exceptional.

I dated an aerospace engineer for a while some years back. Extraordinarily bright woman, not sure how I pulled it off. Ungentlemanly to say so but also one of the most magnificent fucks I have ever had. Not one single aspect of her life she wasn't intense about. Lost her when she moved to the other end of the country to do her doctorate and build satellites for a living.

Don't get me started on soft skilled female project managers.

 

Did she have really spaniels ears tits and a dark bobcut?  If so we might have dipped wicks in the same pot.

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1 hour ago, Virgil Caine said:

Agreed.

Absolutely the best all round soft developer I know is a woman who is technically excellent but also has the business and interpersonal skills. I have worked with a fair few men who were as good on the programming side but many of them had poor grasp of the businesses overall needs and a fair number could not be allowed near the customers because their people skills were to put it mildly lacking.

This is me (and I don't care if that makes me sound immodest).   I am also lucky that I have a name that is spelt with the male rather than the female variant so no-one realises I am a female until I get to the interview stage.  So I also know I'm not being interviewed to fulfil a quota.

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27 minutes ago, wherebee said:

Did she have really spaniels ears tits and a dark bobcut?  If so we might have dipped wicks in the same pot.

No, brunette, but hair down to the small of her back and a firm B cup.

I had to think for a moment though! To quote Steven Wright "It's a small world. But I wouldn't like to paint it"

 

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8 minutes ago, stop_the_craziness said:

This is me (and I don't care if that makes me sound immodest).

Hmm, disregard for other people's feelings. Delusions of grandeur. You could be on the autistic spectrum, or maybe have a psychopathic personality and maybe a bit of NPD? Only joking, I'm sure your are being honest and are doing a great job.

@spunko may we have a gender marker in profiles please, so we know who to patronise?

Edited by Nippy
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12 minutes ago, Nippy said:

Hmm, disregard for other people's feelings. Delusions of grandeur. You could be on the autistic spectrum, or maybe have a psychopathic personality and maybe a bit of NPD? Only joking, I'm sure your are being honest and are doing a great job.

@spunko may we have a gender marker in profiles please, so we know who to patronise?

Yeah, all of that's probably true as well.

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44 minutes ago, stop_the_craziness said:

This is me (and I don't care if that makes me sound immodest).   I am also lucky that I have a name that is spelt with the male rather than the female variant so no-one realises I am a female until I get to the interview stage.  So I also know I'm not being interviewed to fulfil a quota.

female variant would be start_the_craziness

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3 hours ago, ad_ceng said:

Diversity is all bollocks. 

Either you can do the job or not. It is why Boeing cannot build space craft any more or aircraft that stay in the sky they have moved away from employing capable to employing people because of their color, religion, sex, orientation etc.

 

To throw that back from the  'other side of the fence'

Employers want good employees.  They really don't care about race or gender, just about getting the job done with the best results, least moaning and lowest pay.  That's it.  If any employer is restricting their employee pool simply because of gender/race/sexuality/religious/ism then they're not going to be getting the best employees, and will find it harder to deliver the same quality for the same price.  No employer will deliberately do that to themselves*.

[It is like Women's hour -- if you accept their thesis (women and men are equal, and possibly even the same) then when it comes to their interviewees they're deliberately choosing to not not have the best person to interview half of the time, and their output will be a lower standard as a result.]

[* it is different when it comes to things like big-business directorships, because that's just a club]

Edited by dgul
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5 hours ago, Funn3r said:

I used to work with a lady well past retiring age but she didn't want to go. In those days retirement ages were compulsory so the management kept dreaming up ways to extend her. She was quite thin and wrinkly with grey hair

Sounds like a lady I worked with. Retired maths teacher. She was certainly sharp.

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19 minutes ago, Harley said:

Alas, I had to force through a diversity regime at work today. 

Hooray.:(

I said this before, but I had to go on a course about not throwing bananas at black people. I had never thought about it, but after the thoroughly educational course, now I carry a banana not to throw just in case.

Edited by MrPin
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