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I've raised this several times in RL, often to blank looks, that I think you shouldn't be on the "Birth School Work Death" one way street but should be able to hop off and back on again at any point.

For example if you want to redo school off you go.  Attend somewhere else; do different courses and join different societies.  Or Uni - did something sensible the first time want to do Drama Studies this time.

My first job was predicated upon: year one you do this, year two something else, year three something new again.  And I said what if you really liked year one.  Could you not just repeat that for as long as you wanted? It was a job; you were paid and it made the company money.   Cue blank looks because year two paid £6k more than year one.

This local story is just that.  I wouldn't say inspiring but with just the attitude that I have - there is no progression rather there is an orthodox sequence which you should be able to leave and rejoin at any point.
 

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“I was feeling so pressured in my 20s and I don’t feel that pressure now," she said.

"They do say the older you get the more relaxed you feel about time even though you have less of it, but the pressure in my 20s and the shame of failing and burning out left me not knowing what to do.

“I needed something to help me feel proud because in my life I have felt quite trampled on and lonely. You’ve got to do your best to find strength."

Janeta has always indulged in a life of learning and experimenting. She was a primary school teacher in the 90s before it became too much and she "burned out", before she went onto study nursing, and then personal training.

She's no stranger to learning something new and has explored various different avenues including tennis, karate and modelling. She's also published a few children's books.

 

I've retired early and I would quite like to, say, redo my sixth form but with entirely different subjects or maybe choose to start a whole new career as an apprentice.

Maybe I ought to seek out Janeta as I have yet to meet somebody who thinks that exact same way.  There is no progression; there is rather a roundabout onto which you step and from which you step off.

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/53-year-old-student-living-4383772

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I’m not sure there’s anything particularly to stop you,  other than certain roles require certain training and experience as a prerequisite.    You couldn’t leave school at 16 and be a surgeon,  then five years later decide to go to medical school.   
 

I think what stops people is,  once you have established a career,  why would you go back to square one again unless you really hate it?  By then it’s probably “just a job” and you have other commitments like children to worry about.

I’d consider binning the career and finding a less stressful part time “hobby job” after the kids leave home..  but I’d need to have the luxury to be able to afford to (hence saving as much as possible now) and also that assumes such jobs are available.   I haven’t read about many vacancies for “bikini contests baby oil application engineer” in the local paper recently :/

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13 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Tbh she looks like a bit of a loon to me too; but I admire her attitude.

Woman's prerogative to change her mind but this one can't decide what she wants from one day to another......

maybe you could track her down with a bottle of baby oil and suggest the 'Frank's titty massage with baby oil course'?

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4 minutes ago, 5min OCD speculator said:

Woman's prerogative to change her mind but this one can't decide what she wants from one day to another......

maybe you could track her down with a bottle of baby oil and suggest the 'Frank's titty massage with baby oil course'?

My first wife was like that, one day she’d want to work with deaf kids and would start learning sign language, then it would be something else like working with tigers. Later in her second marriage she was still doing it, I heard. She was a talented and bright woman who ended up “succeeding” , whatever that means, at nothing but has led a varied and quite interesting life, a bit like the woman in the article. I could put you in touch if you like, Frank, she’s still not bad looking and was a very decent shag when young at least, but she lives a very very long way from you! :P

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10 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

I've raised this several times in RL, often to blank looks, that I think you shouldn't be on the "Birth School Work Death" one way street but should be able to hop off and back on again at any point.

For example if you want to redo school off you go.  Attend somewhere else; do different courses and join different societies.  Or Uni - did something sensible the first time want to do Drama Studies this time.

My first job was predicated upon: year one you do this, year two something else, year three something new again.  And I said what if you really liked year one.  Could you not just repeat that for as long as you wanted? It was a job; you were paid and it made the company money.   Cue blank looks because year two paid £6k more than year one.

This local story is just that.  I wouldn't say inspiring but with just the attitude that I have - there is no progression rather there is an orthodox sequence which you should be able to leave and rejoin at any point.
 

I've retired early and I would quite like to, say, redo my sixth form but with entirely different subjects or maybe choose to start a whole new career as an apprentice.

Maybe I ought to seek out Janeta as I have yet to meet somebody who thinks that exact same way.  There is no progression; there is rather a roundabout onto which you step and from which you step off.

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/53-year-old-student-living-4383772

Sounds like she's got able parents , I'd end up being a bloody carer if I wound back with either of mine... bloody nightmare.( sounds like they're looking after her.) Why do older adults living with parents ( and therefore the assumption they are financially constrained) have these incredibly able parents? See this a lot.

I'd be a bit depressed tbh starting out again. Probably more of a stigma for blokes to live with their parents. Good on her that she can be positive about it though. 

Edited by crashmonitor
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2 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

Sounds like she's got able parents , I'd end up being a bloody carer if I wound back with either of mine... bloody nightmare.( sounds like they're looking after her.) Why do older adults living with parents ( and therefore the assumption they themselves are financially constrained) have these incredibly able and rich parents? See this a lot.

I'd be a bit depressed tbh starting out again. Probably more of a stigma for blokes to live with their parents. Good on her that she can be positive about it though. 

I don't blame you for not scrolling all the way down that page with the vast numbers of ads loading but she says that she's a carer for each of her parents who live separately.

It's more what she says rather than does tbh; boil it down and she's recently divorced, homeless, and shuttling between two separated parents and looking after them. Which is a nice thing to do.

Whilst doing a correspondence course.

It was her words that struck a chord with something I've said several times in RL to looks of incomprehension.

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

I don't blame you for not scrolling all the way down that page with the vast numbers of ads loading but she says that she's a carer for each of her parents who live separately.

It's more what she says rather than does tbh; boil it down and she's recently divorced, homeless, and shuttling between two separated parents and looking after them. Which is a nice thing to do.

Whilst doing a correspondence course.

It was her words that struck a chord with something I've said several times in RL to looks of incomprehension.

Well done her then, all respect. I'd got visions of the spoilt daughter returning to the family mansion where dad and mum still do everything for her in their eighties. Bloke I know is like that.

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22 minutes ago, swiss_democracy_for_all said:

My first wife was like that, one day she’d want to work with deaf kids and would start learning sign language, then it would be something else like working with tigers. Later in her second marriage she was still doing it, I heard. She was a talented and bright woman who ended up “succeeding” , whatever that means, at nothing but has led a varied and quite interesting life, a bit like the woman in the article. I could put you in touch if you like, Frank, she’s still not bad looking and was a very decent shag when young at least, but she lives a very very long way from you! :P

Ha! Maybe not.

There are so many things to do that look really interesting that I find it strange that people tend to do just one or two things.

I was chatting to a father and son by a local fishing spot the other day and their tales and photos all revolved around this one big pond; big fish caught at four in the morning. I was surveying the territory on Google maps and noted that there was a white van parked exactly where theirs was; odds on it was them.

I don't really get the mindset that thinks if something is enjoyable then you keep doing it to the near-exclusion of everything else. Work is fair enough because you need to earn.

It was reminiscent to me of a particular Cornish mindset that I have touched on before where people take pride in not going anywhere.  I know people in Wadebridge that won't go to Bodmin because it's "too far" (about ten miles), several who haven't left Cornwall for decades if at all and are proud of that, and one extreme example who had never left Penzance. This was a bloke in his fifties who had never even walked along the bay to Marazion / St Michael's Mount despite seeing it most days of his life.  He hadn't left Penzance because he had "no need to".

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2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I don't really get the mindset that thinks if something is enjoyable then you keep doing it to the near-exclusion of everything else. Work is fair enough because you need to earn.

It was reminiscent to me of a particular Cornish mindset that I have touched on before where people take pride in not going anywhere.  I know people in Wadebridge that won't go to Bodmin because it's "too far" (about ten miles), several who haven't left Cornwall for decades if at all and are proud of that, and one extreme example who had never left Penzance. This was a bloke in his fifties who had never even walked along the bay to Marazion / St Michael's Mount despite seeing it most days of his life.  He hadn't left Penzance because he had "no need to".

Do you not think they are just comfortable with life and how they fit into it, perhaps it is happiness.

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2 minutes ago, Chewing Grass said:

Do you not think they are just comfortable with life and how they fit into it, perhaps it is happiness.

I don't think it a positive way of thinking to wear as badges of honour what you haven't done.

I haven't, for example, been to mainland Spain but I would like to go there and presumably will.

I note this because it's fairly unusual for someone my age who has been on a reasonable amount of foreign holidays not to have gone there; but I don't think it's a plus that I haven't.

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Money, Frank.

You’ve got loadsa money and low outgoings. Most don’t.

The situation you described sounds great because it would represent true freedom at an individual level.

But that’s completely different to western culture, among the workers anyway, which is to saddle yourself so much debt that your spending the rest of your life paying it off. Get a promotion, increase the debt in line with your increased earnings so even if you hate the job you can’t afford to earn less.

Consumption is the national past time and most people’s personal identity, people don’t stop to think about how they spend their days.

Edited by JoeDavola
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1 minute ago, JoeDavola said:

Money, Frank.

You’ve got loadsa money and low outgoings. Most don’t.

The situation you described sounds great because it would represent true freedom at an individual level.

But that’s completely different to western culture, among the workers anyway, which is to saddle yourself so much debt that your spending the rest of your life paying it off. Get a promotion, increase the debt in line with your increased earnings so even if you hate the job you can’t afford to earn less.

Consumption is the national past time and most people’s personal identity, people don’t stop to think ‘is this how I want to spend my time’.

Absolutely that's the reality of it however I thought exactly this when I was 22 and skint, albeit not in debt, even though the option wasn't really there at that time..

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I've done this a few times in life: started a career (usually a side-career) from scratch to see what it was all about, whether I could do it, struggled with some and decided they weren't for me, kept going with others until they were profitable / I was successful, then lost interest and moved onto something new. The money wasn't a goal in and of itself, just a way of keeping score, so I had no trouble stopping profitable work if it wasn't interesting.

After about five years of hard work and some good savings I even considered giving all my hard-earned away and starting again from scratch, for the challenge, but my wife understandably nixed that idea. I don't think she understood that I would probably have earned more second time around, due to the challenge... but maybe I'm deluded.

Thing is, I don't think it would be possible now. I did all this before the cost of owning/renting a home went mental (actually some of it was while that was happening). It was possible to take such risks without worrying too much about a roof over my head or having to move back in with my parents, which was never an option I'd have considered. That element of risk-taking has been made pretty much untenable, in the UK at least, by 20-plus years of obscene economic policy.

I'm rambling so I'll stop. Too much coffee.

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12 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

IFor example if you want to redo school off you go.  Attend somewhere else; do different courses and join different societies.  Or Uni - did something sensible the first time want to do Drama Studies this time.

We have the ideas of investment and pay back time, and apply them to education and training. As as result, 50 year olds find it difficult to get a job, and, admit it,  we looked quizzically at old or older people in the university lecture theatre. But it is clearly a nonsense idea that there is a pay back time. Most people a) only retained the knowledge long enough to take the exam b) don't make use of the stuff they did retain. Then there all the nonsense subjects that people take, and the management fads that people get trained in, only for it to quietly die a death. I also reckon, and this is just a hunch, that if you are going to do something ground-breaking, it won't be thirty years into a subject or career, it will withing a few years because you will innately have an ability that others lacked, or you will bring a new perspective to it that will lead to progress. So I agree with you, we should be allowed to go back or hop in and out. What's more, I think teenagers should be able to hop off if school and learning aren't their thing.

Edited by Nippy
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2 minutes ago, Nippy said:

We have the ideas of investment and pay back time, and apply them to education and training. As as result, 50 year olds find it difficult to get a job, and, admit it,  we looked quizzically at old or older people in the university lecture theatre. But it is clearly a nonsense idea that there is a pay back time. Most people a) only retained the knowledge long enough to take the exam b) don't make use of the stuff they did retain. Then there all the nonsence subjects that people take, and the management fads that people get trained in, only for it to quietly die a death. I also reckon, and this is just a hunch, that if you are going to do something ground-breaking, it won't be thirty years into a subject or career, it will withing a few years because you will innately have an ability that others lacked, or you will bring a new perspective to it that will lead to progress. So I agree with you, we should be allowed to go back or hop in and out. What's more, I think teenagers should be able to hop off if school and learning aren't their thing.

Yes, that's the other side of it and I absolutely agree with that.

You should be able to leave at 14 to start work because school bores you to tears and then go back when you actually want to learn something.

I knew several people who were just like that but because you could leave when you were 16, and not even at the end of the school year as there was a category of "January leavers" for people who were already 16 and could demonstrate that they had a job lined up, people didn't get too frustrated with being "stuck" in school.

I would say that people are resistant to the idea only because it doesn't happen at the moment.  If you could leave when you were 14 and return then you would get genuinely mixed age schools.

When I was at school there was a woman in I think her fifties in the sixth form; they had recently opened A Level study to all ages and she was a dinner lady at the school who fancied doing A Level English or something like that.  It was absolutely fine and she was accepted by everybody. 

It would also solve a lot of disciplinary problems - anyone aged 14 or over who doesn't want to be there can simply leave rather than disrupting everyone else's education.

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1 hour ago, Alex said:

I've done this a few times in life: started a career (usually a side-career) from scratch to see what it was all about, whether I could do it, struggled with some and decided they weren't for me, kept going with others until they were profitable / I was successful, then lost interest and moved onto something new. The money wasn't a goal in and of itself, just a way of keeping score, so I had no trouble stopping profitable work if it wasn't interesting.

After about five years of hard work and some good savings I even considered giving all my hard-earned away and starting again from scratch, for the challenge, but my wife understandably nixed that idea. I don't think she understood that I would probably have earned more second time around, due to the challenge... but maybe I'm deluded.

Thing is, I don't think it would be possible now. I did all this before the cost of owning/renting a home went mental (actually some of it was while that was happening). It was possible to take such risks without worrying too much about a roof over my head or having to move back in with my parents, which was never an option I'd have considered. That element of risk-taking has been made pretty much untenable, in the UK at least, by 20-plus years of obscene economic policy.

I'm rambling so I'll stop. Too much coffee.

Yes, I think you're right that HPI has changed things as this really wasn't a concern for me in my twenties.  I went back to a self-funded postgrad at thirty; not because I had "loadsamoney" (I didn't) but because I wasn't concerned that by so doing I would never be able to afford a house as they were fairly reasonably priced at that point and I'd already bought and sold one.   

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2 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

I don't think it a positive way of thinking to wear as badges of honour what you haven't done.

I haven't, for example, been to mainland Spain but I would like to go there and presumably will.

I note this because it's fairly unusual for someone my age who has been on a reasonable amount of foreign holidays not to have gone there; but I don't think it's a plus that I haven't.

I have never been to Ireland north or south. But travelled quite extensively around the world. Not massively keen on the irish but with the sea crossing have never made it there or thought worth the bother.

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3 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

Ha! Maybe not.

There are so many things to do that look really interesting that I find it strange that people tend to do just one or two things.

I was chatting to a father and son by a local fishing spot the other day and their tales and photos all revolved around this one big pond; big fish caught at four in the morning. I was surveying the territory on Google maps and noted that there was a white van parked exactly where theirs was; odds on it was them.

I don't really get the mindset that thinks if something is enjoyable then you keep doing it to the near-exclusion of everything else. Work is fair enough because you need to earn.

It was reminiscent to me of a particular Cornish mindset that I have touched on before where people take pride in not going anywhere.  I know people in Wadebridge that won't go to Bodmin because it's "too far" (about ten miles), several who haven't left Cornwall for decades if at all and are proud of that, and one extreme example who had never left Penzance. This was a bloke in his fifties who had never even walked along the bay to Marazion / St Michael's Mount despite seeing it most days of his life.  He hadn't left Penzance because he had "no need to".

You can take things too far each way. Some people are just never satisfied with where they are. They keep trying to reinvent themselves in a new place, moving on but carrying their insecurities with them, rather than addressing and resolving them.

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2 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

Absolutely that's the reality of it however I thought exactly this when I was 22 and skint, albeit not in debt, even though the option wasn't really there at that time..

OK so I actually watched the video, as I do agree with your sentiment.

First impressions was that she seemed like an interesting person, I liked her outlook on life ect. Bonus points for still being a healthy shape in her 50's not that it is relevant to this.

Then, of course, cynical Joe kicked in and I'd like to know who's paying for all this - is she doing this on top of working? Or is she on the tax credit train, or did she take some poor bloke to the cleaners in a divorce? Even if none of the above, she still got to buy a house far cheaper than this generation which offers freedom.

Even with all that though, having an attitude of being a life long learner is one I admire.

If I were to be my best self, it would be to aim not for the highest paying job I could find in my own profession, with the stress and loss of time that comes with it, but to know about lots of different things, yes my profession but also being able to cook and know about nutrition and a bit about exercise, and when I get a house enough about DIY to maintain that, also more about music and writing and various other things. As pretentous as the term sounds I've always like the idea of the 'renassance man'.

I see two extremes in my own life regarding this way of thinking.

I never get bored if I have time to myself (and not just because I'm shitposting here so much), but I've heard the opinion from my brother and one of my best friends that they're glad they work so much because they wouldn't have a clue what else to do otherwise. That they don't actually like having free time. And when my mate spent the last few years or so moving jobs to the point where he's earning about 60-70% more than he did 4 years ago, instead of thinking about banking that extra money to retire early he's buying a big house that will make sure he'll be working that hard probably till he dies, and all he talks about these days is work. My Dad has been retired for a decade and still drinks far too much in part because he doesn't know what do do with his time. He has more money and a bigger house than he knows what to do with, but in 10 years hasn't had the get up and go to pick up a single hobby e.g. he's an expert joiner by trade and knows a ton about cars so could restore some old cars....but instead he just drinks a bottle of wine every night after dinner and falls asleep all evening.

On the other side of the spectrum I have a friend who bought a cheap council house several years back and works 3 days a week. He has so many hobbies and interests that there's not enough time for them even with his short working week. He's never bored and always busy. He knows enough to maintain his own house, buys cheap run down veichles/motorbikes/caravans second hand (for personal / family use, not to sell on....) and spends hours doing them up himself, knows about electronics ect... a while back he casually mentioned that they thought the kitchen needed a facelit....for most of my friends that would be their wives telling them to go and spend 4 figures on a new kitchen. This bloke and his wife re-did the whole kitchen themselves, with him doing tiling and his wife re-painting all the cabinets herself. If most of my mates suggested to their wives they do some DIY they'd not talk to them for a week :D In addition to learning about these kinda things and being self-sufficient, this bloke's wife has also tried sevel different careers in the last decade, since they have a cheap mortgage she's been able to move on from one kind of job into training for another when she wasn't happy with what she was doing any more. I think overall his outlook on life is closer to how I'd like mine to be.

But as per usual, the personal freedom required to achieve this is based on affording shelter.

Edited by JoeDavola
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37 minutes ago, RJT1979 said:

She is a timewaster and whos paying for it. No degree should be paid for by the loans she wont pay back past the age of 25.

Does seem to be a bit about "self growth " ( as she refers to it) as opposed to career development.

It's not going to make much sense to me, I left school with five O levels aged 15. I've gone a bit the other way. Going to University now for the first time would be my worst nightmare. I've gone down the financial independence route as opposed to the travel and education voyage of self discovery thang. Last flew abroad in 1985.

I'm your typical ignorant right wing cunt. Opposites attract ...so if I wasn't married.:/

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