Is the penny starting to drop on student loans?

[Green Devil]

1 hour ago, Errol said:

Agree. I've said this all along. Student loans are effectively money printing - direct injections of cash into the system. These will cause and are causing corresponding distortions in the economy and monetary system.

Effectively the government are printing money under the guise of debt. Its what most loans are. In this case, since it you gov and not a private entity, the money doesnt need to be paid back, its simply drawn on the bottomless money pit that is the treasury.

[spygirl]

1 minute ago, Green Devil said:

Effectively the government are printing money under the guise of debt. Its what most loans are. In this case, since it you gov and not a private entity, the money doesnt need to be paid back, its simply drawn on the bottomless money pit that is the treasury.

No,

Ukgov suspending money to HE I  terms of tuition fees and subbing Uni costs.

Its debt.

If it's not paulus back the whole lot collapses.

[One percent]

50 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

Are you sure?

https://www.artscouncil.org.uk/economic-contribution#section-1

...£8.5 Billion to the UK economy shouldn't be `sniffed` at...unless of course your are UK Chancellor, then that's an afternoons work! :-)

Government started it with FE and adult ed 30 years ago. They would not fund anything unless it led to a job. So, there were lots of courses that had to be certificated, rather than for leisure. Then, they started to cut anything creative. Then the brought in the functional skills crap and let’s teach Johnny Foreigner to speaka da English. 
 

the result is that the whole of the adult ed provision has been decimated. My parents often went to night school and learnt all sorts of skills. Woodworking, embroidery, car mechanics etc. 
 

this model has slowly moved into HE. 

[MrXxxx]

27 minutes ago, One percent said:

Government started it with FE and adult ed 30 years ago. They would not fund anything unless it led to a job. So, there were lots of courses that had to be certificated, rather than for leisure. Then, they started to cut anything creative. Then the brought in the functional skills crap and let’s teach Johnny Foreigner to speaka da English. 
 

the result is that the whole of the adult ed provision has been decimated. My parents often went to night school and learnt all sorts of skills. Woodworking, embroidery, car mechanics etc. 
 

this model has slowly moved into HE. 

Sorry, don't buy that argument, some of the more successful countries in Europe have language training for foreigners I.f Volkshochscule in Germany, the equivalent in Sweden, its all part of integration into the native community and also to increase the working potential of the individual in the national economy.

As for evening classes, they still happen, in our local one (adult education centre) you can do all of those you mention above and more I.e computing, languages...even bokbinding and stained glass...its out there if you look for it.

[One percent]

9 minutes ago, MrXxxx said:

Sorry, don't buy that argument, some of the more successful countries in Europe have language training for foreigners I.f Volkshochscule in Germany, the equivalent in Sweden, its all part of integration into the native community and also to increase the working potential of the individual in the national economy.

As for evening classes, they still happen, in our local one (adult education centre) you can do all of those you mention above and more I.e computing, languages...even bokbinding and stained glass...its out there if you look for it.

It’s not trust me. 

[eek]

1 hour ago, MrXxxx said:

Sorry, don't buy that argument, some of the more successful countries in Europe have language training for foreigners I.f Volkshochscule in Germany, the equivalent in Sweden, its all part of integration into the native community and also to increase the working potential of the individual in the national economy.

As for evening classes, they still happen, in our local one (adult education centre) you can do all of those you mention above and more I.e computing, languages...even bokbinding and stained glass...its out there if you look for it.

Where do you live as the evening classes round here disappeared 20 years ago

[spygirl]

1 hour ago, MrXxxx said:

Sorry, don't buy that argument, some of the more successful countries in Europe have language training for foreigners I.f Volkshochscule in Germany, the equivalent in Sweden, its all part of integration into the native community and also to increase the working potential of the individual in the national economy.

As for evening classes, they still happen, in our local one (adult education centre) you can do all of those you mention above and more I.e computing, languages...even bokbinding and stained glass...its out there if you look for it.

Theres barely anything like academic nightschool.

It's all yoga n sugar craft now.

Insane.

[One percent]

4 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Theres barely anything like academic nightschool.

It's all yoga n sugar craft now.

Insane.

It’s not even that. It’s English for foreigners, functional skills for the hard of thinking and basic computing (this is a mouse, this is a screen) also for the hard of thinking. Oh and some sign language thrown in.  

[Shamone]

Just now, One percent said:

It’s not even that. It’s English for foreigners, functional skills for the hard of thinking and basic computing (this is a mouse, this is a screen) also for the hard of thinking. Oh and some sign language thrown in.  

Fucking state of this cuntry 

[One percent]

7 minutes ago, Shamone said:

Fucking state of this cuntry 

Everything has been hollowed out. Private wealth and public squalor. 
 

[Shamone]

49 minutes ago, One percent said:

Everything has been hollowed out. Private wealth and public squalor. 
 

We deserve what is coming to us.

[One percent]

16 minutes ago, Shamone said:

We deserve what is coming to us.

Disagree. Many of us have identified how we have been undermined and sold out. Yet we have been powerless to stop it. Yes there are many who, by not resisting it, deservedly have it coming. Those that have followed a hedonistic, money and precious baubles lifestyle in particular. Not us though.  

[Wight Flight]

5 hours ago, MrXxxx said:

I agree...a lot of people believe that the only purpose of formal education is to get a job, I disagree as otherwise we would lose the cultural basis to our society I.e The Arts. Unfortunately not everyone can see the equal value between an artist, doctor or financal executive, so as a result the latter is valued (financially) the most...its a cruel world!

Disagree. I have worked with a lot of artists.

None of the successful ones had a degree.

(Not entirely true. One of our best selling artists was highly qualified. In dentistry)

[wherebee]

5 hours ago, spygirl said:

Theres barely anything like academic nightschool.

It's all yoga n sugar craft now.

Insane.

I did economics as a night class after school when 17.  It was shit, but it was academic and well taught.

Betcha you can't do that now. 

 

[Castlevania]

2 hours ago, wherebee said:

I did economics as a night class after school when 17.  It was shit, but it was academic and well taught.

Betcha you can't do that now. 

 

You still have such colleges. I’m not sure how useful the courses are but I’d rather they existed than not. As long as you’re not foreign then the fees seem reasonable. Super basic accountancy course here, but arguably useful.

https://www.lewisham.ac.uk/courses/business-accounting-and-law/507-aat-access-award-in-business-level-1-programme

[MrXxxx]

10 hours ago, One percent said:

It’s not trust me. 

?...well prior to Covid lockdown I did one of these evening classes and in the last five years I have attended  Volkshochschule to learn German...that said, looking at some of the replies below the evening class provision seems to vary, perhaps we pay our council tax here?! :-) :-) :-)

[MrXxxx]

9 hours ago, eek said:

Where do you live as the evening classes round here disappeared 20 years ago

SE..and you?

[MrXxxx]

9 hours ago, spygirl said:

Theres barely anything like academic nightschool.

It's all yoga n sugar craft now.

Insane.

Is that a bad thing?...both vocational subjects that could provide a small business opportunity.

[MrXxxx]

7 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

Disagree. I have worked with a lot of artists.

None of the successful ones had a degree.

(Not entirely true. One of our best selling artists was highly qualified. In dentistry)

Thank you WF, you last sentence has helped support my initial point beautifully....the person concerned had an interest in art but initially didn't choose to follow it as a career, preferring to study dentistry. This obviously gave them a firm financial footing to pursue the art from at a later stage, and something to fall back on just in case it didn't work out.

Anyway, the comment i was making about artists was based on valuing of certain professions against others prompted by another poster (@Hardhat), not the value of studying them formally, so unfortunately it has been quoted out of context....thanks for your comment though as that helped support the initial point.

[DurhamBorn]

19 hours ago, janch said:

Schools brainwash kids throughout the time they spend there as if uni is the only option.  That's been the case for a few generations now.  Parents and grandparents mostly push it for snobbish reasons.

Only today I heard apprenticeships being discussed where you train on the job whilst getting paid.  One of those interviewed had an apprenticeship with Google so not just plumbers etc any more.

For more practical careers such as paramedic/nurse etc the day release route has to be better than a degree if you want people who can actually do the job as @sancho panza says.

Exactly.I guided my daughter to a nurse degree.NHS paid for it and she took no loans at all.She now has a great career as a nurse,already promoted twice and zero debt,she will go part time at 35 and retire at 50.She will be mortgage free at 30

My son went to Aldi not Uni.Hes 30% into paying off a nice house at 22 years old,been promoted at Aldi and likely he will end up on £40k a year section leader 10 minutes from home.Some of his mates went to Uni and are in temporary jobs on minimum wage living with mam and sometimes mam and dad with big debts and useless degrees.

Its much harder now though because a lot of companies ask for degrees simply to get employed.Those paid apprenticeships would be far better.Stick them with an experienced employee.When i started with Glaxosmithkline thats what they did.I got put with a guy with 35 years service and the manager said train him.That department was very technical,but worked like a dream, making and launching some of the biggest drugs in the world.None of the lads had a degree apart from the instrument technicians and engineers.

 

[Jesus Wept]

2 hours ago, DurhamBorn said:

Exactly.I guided my daughter to a nurse degree.NHS paid for it and she took no loans at all.She now has a great career as a nurse,already promoted twice and zero debt,she will go part time at 35 and retire at 50.She will be mortgage free at 30

My son went to Aldi not Uni.Hes 30% into paying off a nice house at 22 years old,been promoted at Aldi and likely he will end up on £40k a year section leader 10 minutes from home.Some of his mates went to Uni and are in temporary jobs on minimum wage living with mam and sometimes mam and dad with big debts and useless degrees.

Its much harder now though because a lot of companies ask for degrees simply to get employed.Those paid apprenticeships would be far better.Stick them with an experienced employee.When i started with Glaxosmithkline thats what they did.I got put with a guy with 35 years service and the manager said train him.That department was very technical,but worked like a dream, making and launching some of the biggest drugs in the world.None of the lads had a degree apart from the instrument technicians and engineers.

 

Totally agree.

Better still while you are working get sponsored by the company to do a paid degree. 
 

Loads if companies willing to employ people at 18 and pay for degree whilst they work. Best of both worlds. 
 

Debt will enslave our kids. 

[Green Devil]

1 minute ago, Vendetta said:

Totally agree.

Better still while you are working get sponsored by the company to do a paid degree. 
 

Loads if companies willing to employ people at 18 and pay for degree whilst they work. Best of both worlds. 
 

Debt will enslave our kids. 

It's in the companies interest often to pay for degrees as it's a tax dodge and a perk for employees. 

[VeryMeanReversion]

On 13/08/2020 at 13:26, stop_the_craziness said:

I totally understand your point from a financial perspective, but it would be a sad world if every single experience was measured only in pounds, shillings and pence. 

At minimum wage, that would have cost me 1.63p to read that !!  I'm not made of money you know

I'm hoping to get VMR-junior a job here as a degree apprenticeship.

- £3K government bung to employer

- Uni fees 100% paid by government

- Min wage for apprenticehips very low ~£3/hr.  Basically just beer money. Live at home rent-free.

- No debt on leaving uni and 3-4 years work experience. 

- Minimum 25 hr/week commitment during work-time, 0hr during term-time. 5 week holiday

[Green Devil]

3 hours ago, VeryMeanReversion said:

At minimum wage, that would have cost me 1.63p to read that !!  I'm not made of money you know

I'm hoping to get VMR-junior a job here as a degree apprenticeship.

- £3K government bung to employer

- Uni fees 100% paid by government

- Min wage for apprenticehips very low ~£3/hr.  Basically just beer money. Live at home rent-free.

- No debt on leaving uni and 3-4 years work experience. 

- Minimum 25 hr/week commitment during work-time, 0hr during term-time. 5 week holiday

So if you are a company and hire an apprentice you get it all paid by the gov? Ffs! I bet that loophole is being sucked hard by the one man bands! 

[MrXxxx]

1 hour ago, Green Devil said:

So if you are a company and hire an apprentice you get it all paid by the gov? Ffs! I bet that loophole is being sucked hard by the one man bands! 

No, not all of it, the company can get up to 95% paid by government but they have to commit to the apprentices time off (usually 1 day a week) to attend uni...so all in all it probably costs them £1500 pa in salary and £500 pa uni fees for a 3-4 year period.