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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-53808023

Government badger cull 'could double' this year

 

But I particularly liked this line.......

Farmers believe culling is necessary to control the disease that devastates the beef and dairy industries, but opponents say it is inhumane and ineffective.

Yes, right farmers speak as one, like the Borg, Muslims, and Scientists

 

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6 minutes ago, MrPin said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-53808023

Government badger cull 'could double' this year

 

But I particularly liked this line.......

Farmers believe culling is necessary to control the disease that devastates the beef and dairy industries, but opponents say it is inhumane and ineffective.

Yes, right farmers speak as one, like the Borg, Muslims, and Scientists

 

Headteachers, businessmen and parents have all spoken with one voice on the BBC this week... 

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5 minutes ago, SomersetMatt said:

Headteachers, businessmen and parents have all spoken with one voice on the BBC this week... 

There is a tendency for that type of reporting. It disappoints me, especially "scientists say"......without actually mentioning a particular scientist, or where stuff was published.

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15 minutes ago, MrPin said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-53808023

Government badger cull 'could double' this year

 

But I particularly liked this line.......

Farmers believe culling is necessary to control the disease that devastates the beef and dairy industries, but opponents say it is inhumane and ineffective.

Yes, right farmers speak as one, like the Borg, Muslims, and Scientists

 

It's shoddy journalism but what do you expect from the urban elite other than to lump all rural types together.

It even mentions the alternative later:

Quote

 

Badger vaccinations are already being trialled by wildlife charities in areas including Derbyshire and Oxfordshire.

Julia Hammett, chair of Oxfordshire Badger Group, said the "no-kill alternative" was offered free by the group to landowners.

 

 

Which solution I know has been taken up by some clusters of farmers, somehow now transmuted into the much posher "landowners",  because I saw it reported on the sodding BBC.

 

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Just now, SomersetMatt said:

‘Experts say’ is by far the most annoying! Such bad journalism, I don’t even know where to start....

Even worse than scientists, as you expect scientists to be qualified. "Experts" often are not.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Caravan Monster said:

A farmer I know has a theory that TB in cattle comes from using poorly sterilised human sewage as fertilizer. No idea if this theory has any basis in fact but the farmer has zero squeamishness about any sort of culling so is not looking at it from a save the badgers angle.

I've heard all sorts including lack of variety in the cow's diet.

I'll elaborate. I was told that we used to have hay meadows. Almost wild bits of grassland that grew wild flowers and such. Cows ate it. I am told by a farmer that it was good for the cows, and they had less ailments. just anecdotal.

Edited by MrPin
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58 minutes ago, Caravan Monster said:

A farmer I know has a theory that TB in cattle comes from using poorly sterilised human sewage as fertilizer. No idea if this theory has any basis in fact but the farmer has zero squeamishness about any sort of culling so is not looking at it from a save the badgers angle. 

Be interested to know if the same farmer has ever wondered if the copious amounts of antibiotics used in livestock, around 75% of the total global usage, are enabling TB to spread easily by some related vector. 

Yummy...

(genuine question by the way)

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5 minutes ago, MrPin said:

I don't know @spunko. I'm not a farmer. Why would cows need antibiotics, if they are not sick?

They promote growth IIRC.

They are used so extensively in India that the antibiotics form a large component of the cattle faeces and ironically are now forming a food source for certain bacteria.

This is why the PHE lecturing of the public - do you really need antibiotics? - is an utter waste of time.  It is within agriculture that the resistance forms because of the huge over-application of antibiotics.

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54 minutes ago, MrPin said:

I don't know @spunko. I'm not a farmer. Why would cows need antibiotics, if they are not sick?

They are often sick and in any case farmers use it as prevention.

@Frank Hovis is correct, antibiotics promote growth and obesity when digested in the gut, according to various studies. You will have to go down a long internet wormhole to find out more which is suspicious in itself given the above statistic I posted on antibiotic usage.

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1 hour ago, spunko said:

Be interested to know if the same farmer has ever wondered if the copious amounts of antibiotics used in livestock, around 75% of the total global usage, are enabling TB to spread easily by some related vector. 

Yummy...

(genuine question by the way)

I'm only familiar in a roundabout way with beef and lamb farming. I'll happily be corrected, but fairly sure I'm right in saying these animals don't see any medication other than wormers unless they get ill and are treated by a vet. Ewes get the backpack thing that dispenses what iirc is wormer to get them in good condition before going in with the tup and the lambs presumably get wormer at some point in their lives. Cattle destined for human consumption must get wormers at some points in their 30 months or less of life but don't honestly know how often. Their feed is nearly all grass and hay off the fields other than the small amounts of supplementary feed they sometimes get in the run up to slaughter, which appears to be chopped straw and molasses, I hope it hasn't got antibiotics in it my because my dog is forever jumping into the trailer and feasting on the stuff. Think animals that have had medicine cannot be killed for human consumption until something like 6 weeks after last dose.

So far as I know US style feed lot rearing isn't practised in the UK, which centres around fattening steers quickly and I would guess involves growth hormones and antibiotics due to it's intensive nature. I would guess UK dairy cows do get medication owing to the high demands that big yielding milkers must place on their bodies. Intensive pig and poultry units must use antibiotics.

Are there other avenues being investigated in the issue of TB in cattle? The badger culling aspect is always going to get media coverage because of it's emotive aspect. The farm I live on has at least 2 active badger setts and the farmer has been on the land for about 50 years and iirc claims to have never had a positive TB test but a few show the tell tale scars on the lungs at slaughter @Hopeful I'm sure could give much better information on the subject than I can.

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40 minutes ago, Caravan Monster said:

I'm only familiar in a roundabout way with beef and lamb farming. I'll happily be corrected, but fairly sure I'm right in saying these animals don't see any medication other than wormers unless they get ill and are treated by a vet. Ewes get the backpack thing that dispenses what iirc is wormer to get them in good condition before going in with the tup and the lambs presumably get wormer at some point in their lives. Cattle destined for human consumption must get wormers at some points in their 30 months or less of life but don't honestly know how often. Their feed is nearly all grass and hay off the fields other than the small amounts of supplementary feed they sometimes get in the run up to slaughter, which appears to be chopped straw and molasses, I hope it hasn't got antibiotics in it my because my dog is forever jumping into the trailer and feasting on the stuff. Think animals that have had medicine cannot be killed for human consumption until something like 6 weeks after last dose.

So far as I know US style feed lot rearing isn't practised in the UK, which centres around fattening steers quickly and I would guess involves growth hormones and antibiotics due to it's intensive nature. I would guess UK dairy cows do get medication owing to the high demands that big yielding milkers must place on their bodies. Intensive pig and poultry units must use antibiotics.

Are there other avenues being investigated in the issue of TB in cattle? The badger culling aspect is always going to get media coverage because of it's emotive aspect. The farm I live on has at least 2 active badger setts and the farmer has been on the land for about 50 years and iirc claims to have never had a positive TB test but a few show the tell tale scars on the lungs at slaughter @Hopeful I'm sure could give much better information on the subject than I can.

I don't think I can add much, except that if you have clean badgers of your farm I think you are better off keeping them becaus ethey will keep out other badgers, other than the dager issue of new setts appearing in sloping fields when a tractor wheel going down a hole when already inclined can lead to a bit of a 'situation'

 

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10 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

I don't think I can add much, except that if you have clean badgers of your farm I think you are better off keeping them becaus ethey will keep out other badgers, other than the dager issue of new setts appearing in sloping fields when a tractor wheel going down a hole when already inclined can lead to a bit of a 'situation'

 

I think one problem they found with culling is that other badgers moved to take over the vacant territory, resulting in faster spread of TB.

Maybe they should be made to stay at home.

Brockdown.

Edited by Happy Renting
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2 minutes ago, Happy Renting said:

I think one problem they found with culling is that other badgers moved to take over the vacant territory, resulting in faster spread of TB.

Maybe they should be made to stay at home.

Brockdown.

Yes, that was what I was referring to. Because badgers are territorial if you have clean badgers you won't get others, that might or might not be infected, moving in from outside.

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4 hours ago, Caravan Monster said:

A farmer I know has a theory that TB in cattle comes from using poorly sterilised human sewage as fertilizer. No idea if this theory has any basis in fact but the farmer has zero squeamishness about any sort of culling so is not looking at it from a save the badgers angle.

It is possible, but TB a problem in dairy many years before the current*  use of human sewage as a fertiliser.

[* well since the 70's, but only really common since the rules changed mid 90's]

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