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swiss_democracy_for_all

UKIP - finished?

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http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40902796

Thought this was worth a thread, as Brexit and Islam are quite heavily-discussed topics on here. The things that caught my eye were :-

1. A candidate that believes Islam to be evil is standing in the UKIP leadership election (is 1% Anne Marie Waters?  :))

2. Beeb extremely keen to talk about this even though she probably has no chance of winning. No surprise there.

3. Farage stated that in his opinion if UKIP go down the road of being anti-Islam then they are finished.

4. Farage also said that "if UKIP continues to wither and Brexit is not delivered something will replace UKIP".

5. To me, perhaps I'm being unfair but  Farage seemed quite keen on the idea of UKIP failing and Brexit not being delivered, I guess he thinks it could bring him to power and prominence again. He certainly didn't seem concerned about the implications for the U.K. 

 

So, where is it all leading? Given that Islam doesn't want to stay out of politics (which it should IMO as should all religions) and Muslim candidates attract the votes of many Muslims based on them being Muslim rather than policies, should there be an anti-Islam party? Would that be racist according to the newer definitions of racism and therefore illegal?

Does Farage really want Brexit now?

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I voted for UKIP at every opportunity as for me getting out of the EU was more important than any other political issue.

And, against all the odds, UKIP delivered Brexit.  For which the key people (Wheeler, Farage) should be given vast country estates like Blenheim by a grateful nation and whatever titles and trinkets that they are prepared to accept.

I would then have wound it up as a stunningly successful party that admirably fulfilled its purpose.

The name of UKIP is being tarnished now, please at least change the name before wrecking it with this degree of infighting.

I will happily continue to vote for a non-establishment right wing party but would currently be only voting for the mess that is UKIP with very gritted teeth.

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I was interested to read that the anti-Islam candidate was formerly a Left wing activist.

UKIP did it's job and I think the current collapse of UKIP is partly due to that. The collapse also shows Farage in a good light, I think. I've often seen good people 'worked out' of senior positions by a much less able cabal whipped up by an agent provacateur, this is followed by the inevitable collapse as those who thought they knew better were i) proven wrong and ii) shown to be woefully inadequate.

I think Farage wants Brexit as much as before and would welcome the opportunity to be the person that delivers it.

I'm sure he misses his job and would love a new party , if not just to leave his old 'treacherous' UKIPers in the wilderness.

Although Farage seems to be enjoying himself in the US where I suspect he is more respected for what he 'delivered' in the UK

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It was a pity that there weren't more people like Farage in UKIP as he is a very reasonable and likable chap.

There were quite a few party members with some questionable views for UKIP to become a credible force.

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The problem with British politics is that no one represents the ordinary working people. The tories ate there to further the ends of the elite, the city, business and their globalist masters. 

The lib dems, not a clue but they sold out under calamity in a raw power grab an no one trusts them

the Labour Party represent every minority group they can, especially those overseas or who have never contributed to the society in any way.  They came from the socialist movement and were born from working class struggles.  I would imagine that most labour MPs would not have a clue as to what the working class looked like, thought or what their fears and aspirations are. (Remember bigotgate?)

there is a massive vacuum waiting to be filled imho and any group that dies it would have a landslide 

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47 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I voted for UKIP at every opportunity as for me getting out of the EU was more important than any other political issue.

And, against all the odds, UKIP delivered Brexit.  For which the key people (Wheeler, Farage) should be given vast country estates like Blenheim by a grateful nation and whatever titles and trinkets that they are prepared to accept.

I would then have wound it up as a stunningly successful party that admirably fulfilled its purpose.

The name of UKIP is being tarnished now, please at least change the name before wrecking it with this degree of infighting.

I will happily continue to vote for a non-establishment right wing party but would currently be only voting for the mess that is UKIP with very gritted teeth.

Ukip pressurized the Tories into delivering a referendum and it was won, but it strikes me that no-one has delivered Brexit yet, indeed it's looking less and less likely. 

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17 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Ukip pressurized the Tories into delivering a referendum and it was won, but it strikes me that no-one has delivered Brexit yet, indeed it's looking less and less likely. 

Hotel California, been saying this since the vote.  

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2 minutes ago, Sgt Hartman said:

I hate to say it but if I'd had the slightest inkling of the clusterfuck that this was going to turn into at the time, I would have voted remain.

What an odd position to take.

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Just now, Sgt Hartman said:

I don't think so.

Like has been said, it's looking less and less likely it's even going to happen. So what would have been the point?

If you agreed to a deal and a year down the line the people organising it had screwed it up beyond all comprehension would you take the same deal up again given half the chance? 

 

Yeah, but that's not your fault is it?

I'm in a stupid situation with my parents where we can't discuss Brexit anymore because they thought we would be out within a week. I stupidly suggested that we would likely never leave, not to get their hopes up and to believe it when they actually see it. Now the fact that we aren't out is apparently down to the "negativity" of people like me. No, it's down to the twunts doing anything possible, legal or otherwise, to avoid enacting the democratically expressed will of the people. Talk about shooting the messenger.

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I'm a ukip member (no shit) and I'll be voting for her. She is already saying the right things. Gove, Portillo, JRM, Hitchens, etc - they were all very left wing to start off with and I don't see past political affiliation as a bellwether of things to come. Plus the establishment hates her so she must be doing something right. 

Farage isn't as right wing as people think. He has advocated for immigration to stay at 10s of thousands from India for example. 

1 hour ago, Sgt Hartman said:

We're in agreement there then. I cast my vote on the understanding that a democratic decision by the people was binding. As you say, the process is being consistently undermined at every turn and the fact that I thought the democratic will of the majority would be respected makes me feel like I've been naive...and it pisses me off.

It was Brexit that made me bin Facebook, I could not believe some of the stuff I was reading on there.

 

Re: Facebook. Brexit is the gift that keeps on giving. 

In all seriousness remember that Brexit hasn't happened yet. It will but it will takes years. Be patient and see how it unfolds, and then let's judge if we're better or worse off, in a decade or more.

I'd vote Leave again and again if asked, as i have faith in the people rather than the politicians in this country. 

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1 hour ago, eight said:

What an odd position to take.

I know what he means. They have prevaricated, squandered time, and seem to be negotiating like a complete bunch of amateurs, so much so that you have to wonder if its deliberate.

My only hope now is that they make such a cock up of it that time runs out and the UK departs with no deal, i.e. the hardest of Brexits, then we start again from scratch.

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I don't anticipate ever voting for any of the LibLabCon again due to their two faced and treacherous policies and even though it's now a bit of a rabble UKIP will still get my vote even if just in gratitude for helping to get the Leave the eu referendum and as encouragement to continue.  UKIP isn't perfect itself of course - maybe a better alternative will emerge in due course.  

I anticipate that if it gets clearer that the referendum result is going to be reneged on and the UK continues in its decline (I believe with current policies an inevitable continuation of decline) then UKIP will likely pull themselves together or another similar viable party will emerge.  After so many decades of LibLabCon manipulation a new alternative party (such as UKIP) won't get established overnight but it might well be quicker than anybody could imagine at the moment.  

In the meantime I don't intend to ditch it just because of a dip after its huge success.  A dip which some would say was predictable after such a huge success.

Regarding the anti Islam angle.  It seems a natural progression for some alternative party to adopt that full-on stance as the LibLabCon seem to be touting for the Islam vote apparently oblivious to the contradictions it represents to the non Islam people in the UK who vote (or used to vote) LibLabCon.  If it doesn't happen now it'll likely happen in due course.

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24 minutes ago, The Generation Game said:

Well Hook'em has thrown in his UKIP towel. 

Then what are his proposals for dealing with increasing Islamification and giving people a viable vote for an alternative to it.  He should give us his detailed proposals or is he just accepting it.

None of the main parties including UKIP for that matter seem to have any policies on the matter except touting for its votes and it gets clearer by the day that it's happening and even gaining momentum - not least in London.

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If you want a politician to be anti Islam you will have to find a competent conviction politician, not sure there are any left.

Islamic voters will all vote for your candidate if you win them over, and they are the fastest growing group of voters. So you can expect PPE liblabconners to target them.

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14 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

If you want a politician to be anti Islam you will have to find a competent conviction politician, not sure there are any left.

Islamic voters will all vote for your candidate if you win them over, and they are the fastest growing group of voters. So you can expect PPE liblabconners to target them.

I remember during the US presidential election.  It was mentioned that the Hispanic vote was rising at such a rate as to make securing the African-American vote irrelevant in 4 years. 

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11 hours ago, swissy_fit said:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40902796

Thought this was worth a thread, as Brexit and Islam are quite heavily-discussed topics on here. The things that caught my eye were :-

1. A candidate that believes Islam to be evil is standing in the UKIP leadership election (is 1% Anne Marie Waters?  :))

2. Beeb extremely keen to talk about this even though she probably has no chance of winning. No surprise there.

3. Farage stated that in his opinion if UKIP go down the road of being anti-Islam then they are finished.

4. Farage also said that "if UKIP continues to wither and Brexit is not delivered something will replace UKIP".

5. To me, perhaps I'm being unfair but  Farage seemed quite keen on the idea of UKIP failing and Brexit not being delivered, I guess he thinks it could bring him to power and prominence again. He certainly didn't seem concerned about the implications for the U.K. 

 

So, where is it all leading? Given that Islam doesn't want to stay out of politics (which it should IMO as should all religions) and Muslim candidates attract the votes of many Muslims based on them being Muslim rather than policies, should there be an anti-Islam party? Would that be racist according to the newer definitions of racism and therefore illegal?

Does Farage really want Brexit now?

TR has been campaigning for her for a long while now ,i have no idea what it entails to become a member of UKIP but with the following he has she could have a real chance of becoming leader

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I wonder at what stage someone will mention to NF in a stuffy room that he wouldn't want another airplane accident again, would he...?

The real truth is that UKIP is single issue, that issue will come to a head, likely with the no-deal scenario as the outcome.

Once there, the next step is a party that describes what kind of independent UK the people want.

The Secular Party, that stood for separation of Church and Government, banned interference of religion in politics, education, law and the workplace would be a good start.

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3 hours ago, Bkkandrew said:

I wonder at what stage someone will mention to NF in a stuffy room that he wouldn't want another airplane accident again, would he...?

The real truth is that UKIP is single issue, that issue will come to a head, likely with the no-deal scenario as the outcome.

Once there, the next step is a party that describes what kind of independent UK the people want.

The Secular Party, that stood for separation of Church and Government, banned interference of religion in politics, education, law and the workplace would be a good start.

Secular Party, I like that idea. Politicos with religious beliefs should have to swear to keep them private and not to permit them to influence their policies. 

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Whatever they decide to call it (if they decide to change it) there are distinct advantages in the name being very specific for what it stands for.  UKIP having the words United Kingdom and Independence in its name makes it very clear what it stands for and that was and is to its advantage when it came to elections as well as in the eu referendum.  I would still like those words in the name even if another word or some other words were added.

The names of the other 3 main parties Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrats are almost meaningless and could, did and do stand for anything these days - and usually stand for anything two faced and treacherous.

(accepted that and Unionist in the Conservative's full name is a bit more precise about one aspect of the party - everything else being up for opportunistic grabs)  

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16 minutes ago, twocents said:

Whatever they decide to call it (if they decide to change it) there are distinct advantages in the name being very specific for what it stands for.  UKIP having the words United Kingdom and Independence in its name makes it very clear what it stands for and that was and is to its advantage when it came to elections as well as in the eu referendum.  I would still like those words in the name even if another word or some other words were added.

The names of the other 3 main parties Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrats are almost meaningless and could, did and do stand for anything these days - and usually stand for anything two faced and treacherous.

(accepted that and Unionist in the Conservative's full name is a bit more precise about one aspect of the party - everything else being up for opportunistic grabs)  

On these lines, the Labour Party needs to be now called the benefit and feckless party of the unemployable. 

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