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7 minutes ago, RJT1979 said:

Its the fundamentals of digital electronics. How can you not know 1 + 1 is 1. Or nor nand etc

Well I agree. But it's a question best directed at the institution who gave him his bit of paper.  And doubtless he got into a lot of debt securing that bit of paper. Still, it impressed the recruitment agency.

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2 minutes ago, Bandit Banzai said:

Well I agree. But it's a question best directed at the institution who gave him his bit of paper.  And doubtless he got into a lot of debt securing that bit of paper. Still, it impressed the recruitment agency.

More likely he didn’t have a degree and was lieing

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AND is . isnt it (not +) as in multiply

0.0=0(false)

1.0=0

0.1=0

1.1=1(true)

OR would be +

0+0=0(false)

1+0=1(true)

0+1=1

1+1=1

Thats how i remember it anyways.

 

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On 09/09/2020 at 22:03, Bandit Banzai said:

So we get these guys in who claim to have a  degree in elctronic engineering and they can't read a circuit diagram. Really basic stuff too. My boss tells me the stories. Good example: bloke who apparently had an electronics degree didn't know what an 2 input AND gate was on a diagram. My boss thought he'd persue the question by asking him that, "if I put a 1 on this input and a 1 on that input, what would i get on the output".  Answer: "a 2?"

I'm going to have a go at that as a Mechanical Engineer/Designer with a HNC and say the answer is 1.

Am I right?

Just now, Chewing Grass said:

I'm going to have a go at that as a Mechanical Engineer/Designer with a HNC and say the answer is 1.

Am I right?

Seems I am and the question has been answered above.

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I'm interested in any views on how much unemployment wil spike post end furlough.

https://www.cityam.com/how-badly-will-the-uk-unemployment-rate-spike-when-furlough-ends/

The unemployment rate is unchanged at 3.9 per cent. But the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said the number of hours worked have plummeted 17 per cent since the start of the pandemic.

And 650,000 people have still lost their jobs despite the scheme.

The EY ITEM Club predicts the UK unemployment rate will hit nine per cent late in the year before stabilising and then starting to fall back.

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AUg 20

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52660591

 

The number of employees on UK payrolls fell by 730,000 from March to July. Employment saw the largest falls in a decade, with younger workers, older workers and less skilled workers hit.

Average earnings fell, and the average number of hours people worked dropped by a record amount to an average of 25.8 hours a week, according to figures for April to June.

In its optimistic scenario, the unemployment rate peaks at 9.7% this year, and returns to pre-crisis levels in 2022.

In its "downside" scenario, it peaks at 13.2%, in 2021 - with four million people out of work. It is still at 6.3% by the end of this scenario in 2024 - well above pre-crisis levels.

image.png.f11524e306d6d39968677431a7638fd2.png

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1 hour ago, sancho panza said:

AUg 20

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52660591

 

The number of employees on UK payrolls fell by 730,000 from March to July. Employment saw the largest falls in a decade, with younger workers, older workers and less skilled workers hit.

Average earnings fell, and the average number of hours people worked dropped by a record amount to an average of 25.8 hours a week, according to figures for April to June.

In its optimistic scenario, the unemployment rate peaks at 9.7% this year, and returns to pre-crisis levels in 2022.

In its "downside" scenario, it peaks at 13.2%, in 2021 - with four million people out of work. It is still at 6.3% by the end of this scenario in 2024 - well above pre-crisis levels.

image.png.f11524e306d6d39968677431a7638fd2.png

Do you know how much I can claim?

Sweet fuck all!!

Because I didn't throw my money down the drain or splash out on new cars, I managed to have almost double the threshold of £16k in savings, so I don't get a single penny.............. If i'd been a tit and lived hand to mouth, i'd be getting around £600 per month in benefits.

Perhaps I should go to France, hire an inflatable dinghy, throw my ID into the English channel, put on a funny accent and get everything for free?!!?!

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7 hours ago, Snark said:

Do you know how much I can claim?

Sweet fuck all!!

Because I didn't throw my money down the drain or splash out on new cars, I managed to have almost double the threshold of £16k in savings, so I don't get a single penny.............. If i'd been a tit and lived hand to mouth, i'd be getting around £600 per month in benefits.

Perhaps I should go to France, hire an inflatable dinghy, throw my ID into the English channel, put on a funny accent and get everything for free?!!?!

Its shocking isn't it......the working people get hsafted again and agian.

Have you considered gambling away the savings and then presenting the folowing day with nothing?

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On 09/09/2020 at 22:03, Bandit Banzai said:

See this at our place. A year ago we needed electronics guys for field service work - very large value kit, but believe it or not occasionally we do get to component level simply because this stuff is very niche and it's not so quick to get a board.

So we get these guys in who claim to have a  degree in elctronic engineering and they can't read a circuit diagram. Really basic stuff too. My boss tells me the stories. Good example: bloke who apparently had an electronics degree didn't know what an 2 input AND gate was on a diagram. My boss thought he'd persue the question by asking him that, "if I put a 1 on this input and a 1 on that input, what would i get on the output".  Answer: "a 2?"

Just a waste of time.  Feel a bit sorry for some of these kids cos they have been sold a lie.

It's a mixture at our place. We've got those with an HNC (me for example), grads and in Europe even a couple of PHD's all doing the same job. We've had some great blokes who are ex-forces with HNC's. If it were up to me that's where I would continue to look.

I dont believe that. Someone is lying.

Even the crappiest electronics degree covers basic logic.

On component level stuff, beyond fuses n relays/ high current stuff,  I've not seen a circuit board that could field repaired.

Everything electronic - rather than electrical - is heavily integrated, normally on soldered ball grid array components. You cannot lift n replace those onsite. The number of people who can manually lift n replace a bga device is tiny.

 

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On 10/09/2020 at 09:04, Snark said:

Sounds familiar as electronics is primary line of work, my previous employer just couldn't get people who knew what they were doing, they tried graduates and they just couldn't do the job, but i'm wondering how many good electronics guys got passed over by the agencies in favour of them sending us graduates that we didn't want...... The problem with graduates is they don't want to get their hands dirty, they want to sit at a PC and run CAD simulations al day.

There are very few good digital electronic engineers.

China robbed all that work from the late 90s.

Most of it will come back as China is 1) Expensive 2) Banned from more n more sites / areas.

The skills required to design a 5+ layer PCB for high frequency signals are not taught in Uni.

 

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4 minutes ago, spygirl said:

I dont believe that. Someone is lying.

Even the crappiest electronics degree covers basic logic.

On component level stuff, beyond fuses n relays/ high current stuff,  I've not seen a circuit board that could field repaired.

Everything electronic - rather than electrical - is heavily integrated, normally on soldered ball grid array components. You cannot lift n replace those onsite. The number of people who can manually lift n replace a bga device is tiny.

 

Well I am only repeating what the boss tells me. The last time we were recruiting he whittled it down to a handful of candidtates and got them in for an interview. The example given was just the funny one that he shared. But none of them made the cut.

He was pissed off because it was a day wasted. My view is that he is looking in the wrong place, but that's another story.

 

And we do fix to component level in the field. Granted only on the high current stuff - power transistors and linear power supplies. The rest is all surface mount digital that you couldn't fix in the field even if you wanted to.

But note, this is very high value, low volume kit that is made in Japan. 100k to 2.5 million. It takes time to get a board. Although, in fairness, the electronics is really reliable these days. Mostly we are fixing mechnical problems.

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Agents. Useless, all of them.

They'll refuse to put you forward for a job you're perfectly qualified for.

And then later in the day you'll get a call saying you're a perfect fit for a job you don't have enough experience for.

My "ideal" job is Product Manager for a low latency FX trading platform. Yet, agents call me about Project Manager jobs in Fixed Income.

I fucking hate agents.

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14 hours ago, sancho panza said:

Its shocking isn't it......the working people get hsafted again and agian.

Have you considered gambling away the savings and then presenting the folowing day with nothing?

Boating accident or GTFO

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15 hours ago, spygirl said:

I dont believe that. Someone is lying.

Even the crappiest electronics degree covers basic logic.

On component level stuff, beyond fuses n relays/ high current stuff,  I've not seen a circuit board that could field repaired.

Everything electronic - rather than electrical - is heavily integrated, normally on soldered ball grid array components. You cannot lift n replace those onsite. The number of people who can manually lift n replace a bga device is tiny.

 


The problem with degrees in electronics is you have to have a genuine passion for the subject, it's easy to get a degree by temporarily memorising text books and using websites to download material to get you through. I've had managers with degrees in electronic engineering, who were utterly clueless but thankfully admitted as much.
In electronics as opposed to mechanical engineering degree's, the students typically spend most of their "practical" time running simulations in CAD, unlike my BTEC quals where we used to actually build circuits and test them.

There's a lot of high value equipment out there with good old fashioned discrete components, and the common failures are often relays, capacitors, triacs (when used for switching or as relay snubbers), diodes, MOVs, etc, caused by overheating, liquid ingress or external faults.
BGAs and QFNs are a swine to replace and mostly fail because of lead free solder fractures, but high value stuff usually has RoHS exemptions, so not something you often see on that type of equipment and besides which if said component is a microprocessor, you then need the firmware from the manufacturer in order to replace it, and they usually refuse to supply it.

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A tremendous # on the lung

Surely it's much better to go down the self employed route these days? I wouldn't want to be dependent on whatever the 'jobs market' is at the moment

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UnconventionalWisdom
52 minutes ago, A tremendous # on the lung said:

Surely it's much better to go down the self employed route these days? I wouldn't want to be dependent on whatever the 'jobs market' is at the moment

I've been thinking the same. Jumping through a load of hurdles to get a job loads of others want means the saleries will always get pressed. I live in the south where the house prices are so expensive. It's more of a risk to stay at my job and buy a place than it would be to move to sonewhere like Sheffield where the places are half price and try and do my own thing. Staying here is fine for now but I cant risk putting routes down and being locked in my employment or needing get a job close by just to pay the mortgage.

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58 minutes ago, A tremendous # on the lung said:

Surely it's much better to go down the self employed route these days? I wouldn't want to be dependent on whatever the 'jobs market' is at the moment

Believe me i'd love to, but I wouldn't really have a clue what to do, my skills don't really translate well to dealing with the sales/marketing side of things, I could set up an ebay shop, but I looked into that 10 years ago and I still don't know how UK sellers manage to get postage for next to nothing.

Today has been a bad day on the jobs front, it's frustrating because there's soooo much I can do, but everyone wants meaningless certificates for even the simplest of roles and there are so few jobs in each sector that spending money to get a pointless certificate for a role that may never come up again, would be crazy....... I'd have to take a shotgun approach, get like 30 different certificates (at a cost of tens of thousands of £) and hope that something comes up!!!

There is literally very little within engineering and IT, which I cannot do, i'm genuinely multi-skilled but all these stupid certifications force me to pick one single thing and hope to god a job comes up.

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UnconventionalWisdom
4 minutes ago, Snark said:

everyone wants meaningless certificates

What skills do you have? 

There are websites like edx, Udemy and coursera who offer cheap courses and the possibility to get worthless certificates. Sometimes you need to play the game. Someone hiring you could be a career defining moment- they get quality and their boss looks favourably on them, they get crap and their boss will think they will make bad decisions. The certificates are a means for them to have justification if bad hires are made- can say, "how was i to know, their CV was great". 

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On 13/09/2020 at 22:37, AWW said:

Agents. Useless, all of them.

They'll refuse to put you forward for a job you're perfectly qualified for.

And then later in the day you'll get a call saying you're a perfect fit for a job you don't have enough experience for.

My "ideal" job is Product Manager for a low latency FX trading platform. Yet, agents call me about Project Manager jobs in Fixed Income.

I fucking hate agents.

Generally it depends on who the agent has on his books and the requirements of the customer. 

You might find that you may fit a job that you think you're better suited for, but the agent already has put someone forward. So if he puts you forward, his chances with the other person getting hired are limited. Agents know often less choice is a good thing fir his bottom line. A bit like property and EA's. 

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8 hours ago, Green Devil said:

Generally it depends on who the agent has on his books and the requirements of the customer. 

You might find that you may fit a job that you think you're better suited for, but the agent already has put someone forward. So if he puts you forward, his chances with the other person getting hired are limited. Agents know often less choice is a good thing fir his bottom line. A bit like property and EA's. 

Last week I applied for a job, it was basically the exact same job I was just made redundant from, but with another company, I didn't even get contacted by the agency.

The thing is, I know we used to have trouble getting experienced people, they'd been advertising and interviewing on/off for 4 years when I came a long and they snapped me up in no time. So when I apply for a job which is almost exactly the same, and I get nothing, what am I meant to think?
I know my former employer had trouble because agencies kept sending graduates who couldn't do the job, so i'm wondering if it's the same with me and no degree means my CV gets dropped instantly.

I'm thinking of hiding keywords in my CV, I know it's sneaky, but if i'm getting dropped by a machine, then what else can I do? Plus agencies are sneaky cunts anyway, so they deserve it :p

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I was not having a great time at work earlier in the year and so I decided to take a look at what was out there.

It seems like most jobs advertised on job websites are advertised by some sort of 'gatekeeper' agency. Very few companies and organisations seem to advertise directly these days. Well, the public sector still does. I found agencies alright for temp work but they seem to hinder any attempts to get into permanent work.

I'm not looking for alternative employment any more. I'm happier how that some days I am required to work into the evenings. I actually prefer this as it's a 5 minute drive home at quitting time instead of 15 and there are fewer people getting in my way on the 'shop floor' when I need to go there. Also, it's nice to have mornings off as I can get some chores done that I'm too tired to do after working an earlier shift :)

I have sympathies for those jobhunting dosbodders at the moment during the prolonged Kung Flu clustershambles. It was hard enough for me when the ecomony was supposedly doing well.

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19 hours ago, Snark said:

everyone wants meaningless certificates

Just go and get them then - if you are as knowledgable as you say, it will be a formality. It's never been easier or cheaper to get qualifications (outside the university scam, obviously).

I'm working my way through the AWS certs at the moment, having used the platform to launch a web app.

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7 hours ago, Snark said:

Last week I applied for a job, it was basically the exact same job I was just made redundant from, but with another company, I didn't even get contacted by the agency.

The thing is, I know we used to have trouble getting experienced people, they'd been advertising and interviewing on/off for 4 years when I came a long and they snapped me up in no time. So when I apply for a job which is almost exactly the same, and I get nothing, what am I meant to think?

This doesn't add up. Agencies make money by placing people, if they genuinely had a job that was a perfect match for your CV they would not hand about.

The possible reasons might be:

This job does not in fact exist and is a trawl to get CVs (to mine for sales leads or just to pad out the database so they have more people there when a job does actually materialse).

Your skill set isn't as rare as you think it is and the agency are overwhelmed with applicant who look as good or better than you on paper.

There is something about your CV that is generally off putting (no idea what that might be but from what you have said maybe too much variety of skills).

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